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> Again, I was a Juul employee - I do not believe Juul consciously or explicitly wanted youths to use Juul. Juul is not conscious and cannot want anything. I
by Wowfunhappy 4y ago
> Again, I was a Juul employee - I do not believe Juul consciously or explicitly wanted youths to use Juul.
Juul is not conscious and cannot want anything.
I think it's pretty clear that there were some Juul employees who wanted children to use their company's product. Company representatives did not just wander into schools by chance; someone reached out and struck that deal. Clearly not you, and maybe no one on your team, but certainly someone.
And incompetent or not, Juul the organization is responsible for its actions.
- civilized 4y agoIt seems like pclark is suggesting Juul's attempts to market to kids were so incompetent and doomed to failure that they arguably don't even qualify as worthy of serious moral condemnation. Like if I attempted to kill you with a wet noodle believing it was a knife. Not sure I buy this but it's amusing at the very least.
- flycaliguy 4y agoI think it’s more like: Random people were being hired by random VPs to do random things.
- civilized 4y agoWhich, sadly, will get you dinged by regulators, since this is the one of the main reasons regulators exist.
- Wowfunhappy 4y agoUm, is that sad? (Did you mean the sad part sarcastically?)
- civilized 4y agoI sure hope so!
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- krageon 4y ago> Juul is not conscious and cannot want anything. Whether or not it is conscious and whether or not it wants anything is fundamentally unprovable (even for you, assuming you are human) and thus this statement can only be founded on nothing but faith and assumptions. In a practical sense Juul has legal personhood and can be seen to respond to impulses and plan. It is reasonable to treat it as an entity: if it is harmful it must be punished. If elements of it are exceptionally harmful, they must be punished extra (just as we do for cancer). None of that has anything at all to do with whether or not it has consciousness or wants things.
- nailer 4y ago> I think it's pretty clear that there were some Juul employees who wanted children to use their company's product. Company representatives did not just wander into schools by chance; someone reached out and struck that deal. Clearly not you, and maybe no one on your team, but certainly someone. Straw man. Here's an equally clear (ie, not clear) steel man: someone wanted to get brand equity with adults from telling kids not to vape.
- Wowfunhappy 4y agoThey were paying $10,000 for the ability to talk to students with no teachers present? I know GP said Juul employees were largely incompetent, but I just can't believe anyone was that stupid. If the goal is "to get brand equity with adults", you want the adults to be watching.
- cupofpython 4y agowhat school allows for anyone to sit with kids at the school unsupervised? I feel like people keep glossing over that. Juul arranged to be there, but I find ithard to believe they did anything to explicitly prevent other adults from being in the room. No one at the school had enough common sense to be like "someone should chaperon this" ? I kind of agree that it was probably entirely inconsequential to the popularity of juul though.
- tekknik 4y ago> Juul is not conscious and cannot want anything. > And incompetent or not, Juul the organization is responsible for its actions. Don’t those two conflict?
- Wowfunhappy 4y agoNo. Companies are not conscious beings, but they are monetarily liable for their actions.