3 ms·

>I'd say that if you find this distasteful, I think you're better served arguing against patents and trademarks in general since this seems to my very biased ey

>I'd say that if you find this distasteful, I think you're better served arguing against patents and trademarks in general since this seems to my very biased eyes to be reasonable based on the current system we have. What better way to argue against the absurdity of many patents and trademarks, in general, than to argue against some entity being able to trademark the most common word in the English language! It's a perfect example of how broken the entire space is.

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
I’m not sure you’re engaging with the previous comment. In the realm of college football appears, THE is quite reasonable associated with OSU.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  >I’m not sure you’re engaging with the previous comment. What do you mean? I understand that some people associate "THE" with OSU. That's great, really. That does not mean they should be granted a trademark on the most common word in the English language across an entire category of clothing (or, for anything). Capitalized or not, whether you like football or not, and whether you think it's reasonably associated with OSU or not is immaterial. They were granted a trademark on the most common word in the English language, and that's dumb.
  - technothrasher 4y ago
    I’m not sure I’ve ever in my life seen a sports garment (or any garment, actually) with solely the word “the” printed on it. So to object on the ground that it is “common” seems pretty shaky. If they tried to go after any use of the word on garment, that would be an obvious overreach. But establishing a trademark on the use of it by itself, given the lack of prior use, sounds reasonable.
    - drummojg 4y ago
      One would be, Richard Bland College of The College of William & Mary. I'd point out "The College of William & Mary" except it is no longer in their (e: W&M's) branding standards, but it is the official name since it's on the royal charter. Which was granted in 1693. I wonder if that came up in the review.
      - tedunangst 4y ago
        Does William and Mary sell T-shirts with only the word "the" on them?
        mirntyfirty 4y ago
        I don’t see a reason that they should be prevented from doing so.
        tedunangst 4y ago
        They're not prevented from doing anything. WM sells a "the" t-shirt, OSU sues, WM counter files an anti slapp suit, proves "the" is just a word. Profits from t-shirt sales, profits from lawsuit damages, instant fucking win win.
- hulitu 4y ago
  > I’m not sure you’re engaging with the previous comment. In the realm of college football appears, THE is quite reasonable associated with OSU. OSU ? Never heard about it. But this happened in the same country which trademarked Windows
  - ChrisLomont 4y ago
    Windows is trademarked for certain things, like pink is trademarked for sugar replacement packets - this is not a problem. There are still plenty of places that sell things called windows without legal hassle, and plenty of things that are pink without legal hassle. Trademarks are usually restricted to tiny, tiny slices of the complete, generic meaning of the trademarked term. Exactly how many sports clothing items were being sold with only the word "THE" (all caps) on them?
- SkyBelow 4y ago
  Despite my family being fans of college football and going to a college that has the main college football rivalry in my state, I have no memory or inclination of there being any association between THE and OSU. I'm not certain I can agree it is a reasonable association.
  - ancientworldnow 4y ago
    Went to a national champion college football school and everyone just says Ohio State. I've never heard THE used to refer to OSU in my life but maybe I'm not a big enough fan (or care about big 10 football over the sec).
- dfxm12 4y ago
  Is just reasonable association enough? Doesn't have to be unique, or distinguishable in some way? After all, if you watch nationally televised Football games, tons of players say they're from "the" X university. Thomas Davis says "The" University of Georgia here, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYoW8J9wRrI&t=20s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYoW8J9wRrI&t=20s (20 sec in). Davis would later go on to play for The Washington Football Team.
Spivak 4y ago
This misunderstands trademarks. Trademarks don’t mean you own the word or words being trademarked, they mean that you successfully registered the word as representing your business/firm/trade in the categories your business operates in. There’s no need for them to be unique words, Apple, Ghost, Monster, Bang (sorry my mind is stuck on energy drinks) are all trademarked. It’s the legal equivalent of having the name “the” on NPM.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  So, if I am misunderstanding, can you explain to me what happens if I have some sportswear that I sell which has the word "the" on it, written in capital letters? For example, sportswear that says "THE SPORTSBALL TEAM".
  - thefoyer 4y ago
    Literally nothing
  - joshuamorton 4y ago
    Nothing at all. It would be an issue if the shirt was only THE in all caps, and nothing else. And even then it might not be an issue if it were in pink and orange (although it still might). The analogy with npm works: thesportsballteam is a distinct package.
    - ziddoap 4y ago
      The possibility that I can't put "THE", literally the most common word, on a hat or other sportswear sort of makes my point. Absolutely absurd trademark.
      - et2o 4y ago
        That's not true at all, though. Y9u can absolutely do that as long as it's not in red and grey and sold in places customary to collegiate athletics.
tablespoon 4y ago
> What better way to argue against the absurdity of many patents and trademarks, in general, than to argue against some entity being able to trademark the most common word in the English language! Except that argument seems to rest on a misunderstanding. They didn't trademark the word, they trademarked the word in a specific context (https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/universities/the-ohio-state-university/#88571984 https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/universities/the-ohio-s...): > IC 025. US 022 039. G & S Clothing, namely, t-shirts, baseball caps and hats; all of the foregoing being promoted, distributed, and sold through channels customary to the field of sports and collegiate athletics. FIRST USE: 20050800. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050800. Frankly, the way they seem to use it is really odd (https://www.diehardsport.com/college-football/ohio-state-big-10/ohio-state-is-selling-hats-with-just-the-on-them/ https://www.diehardsport.com/college-football/ohio-state-big...). In English, "the" doesn't even really make sense as a standalone word, so I really doubt this trademark conflicts with anything.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  Funny enough, I actually know that it's in the context of clothing! Even better, I've spent a non-trivial amount of time dealing with trademark lawyers and getting a better grasp of trademark and patent law in the past several years -- so despite what some people seem to think, I'm not a complete idiot who is just misunderstanding everything. And I still think this is absurd.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Funny enough, I actually know that it's in the context of clothing! Even better, I've spent a non-trivial amount of time dealing with trademark lawyers and getting a better grasp of trademark and patent law in the past several years -- so despite what some people seem to think, I'm not a complete idiot who is just misunderstanding everything. You made none of that clear in your comment. Your comment read like you think no common words should not be trademarkable, so it would be interesting to know where you think the boundary should be and why it should be there. > And I still think this is absurd. We'll, to me, it doesn't seem any more absurd than Apple being able to trademark the word "Apple." The word identifies them in certain narrow contexts, so it makes sense that they can gain the right to prevent others from impersonating them in those narrow contexts, so long as any prior use is respected.

DiggyJohnson 4y ago

I’m not sure you’re engaging with the previous comment. In the realm of college football appears, THE is quite reasonable associated with OSU.

ziddoap 4y ago
>I’m not sure you’re engaging with the previous comment. What do you mean? I understand that some people associate "THE" with OSU. That's great, really. That does not mean they should be granted a trademark on the most common word in the English language across an entire category of clothing (or, for anything). Capitalized or not, whether you like football or not, and whether you think it's reasonably associated with OSU or not is immaterial. They were granted a trademark on the most common word in the English language, and that's dumb.
- technothrasher 4y ago
  I’m not sure I’ve ever in my life seen a sports garment (or any garment, actually) with solely the word “the” printed on it. So to object on the ground that it is “common” seems pretty shaky. If they tried to go after any use of the word on garment, that would be an obvious overreach. But establishing a trademark on the use of it by itself, given the lack of prior use, sounds reasonable.
  - drummojg 4y ago
    One would be, Richard Bland College of The College of William & Mary. I'd point out "The College of William & Mary" except it is no longer in their (e: W&M's) branding standards, but it is the official name since it's on the royal charter. Which was granted in 1693. I wonder if that came up in the review.
    - tedunangst 4y ago
      Does William and Mary sell T-shirts with only the word "the" on them?
      - mirntyfirty 4y ago
        I don’t see a reason that they should be prevented from doing so.
        tedunangst 4y ago
        They're not prevented from doing anything. WM sells a "the" t-shirt, OSU sues, WM counter files an anti slapp suit, proves "the" is just a word. Profits from t-shirt sales, profits from lawsuit damages, instant fucking win win.
hulitu 4y ago
> I’m not sure you’re engaging with the previous comment. In the realm of college football appears, THE is quite reasonable associated with OSU. OSU ? Never heard about it. But this happened in the same country which trademarked Windows
- ChrisLomont 4y ago
  Windows is trademarked for certain things, like pink is trademarked for sugar replacement packets - this is not a problem. There are still plenty of places that sell things called windows without legal hassle, and plenty of things that are pink without legal hassle. Trademarks are usually restricted to tiny, tiny slices of the complete, generic meaning of the trademarked term. Exactly how many sports clothing items were being sold with only the word "THE" (all caps) on them?
SkyBelow 4y ago
Despite my family being fans of college football and going to a college that has the main college football rivalry in my state, I have no memory or inclination of there being any association between THE and OSU. I'm not certain I can agree it is a reasonable association.
- ancientworldnow 4y ago
  Went to a national champion college football school and everyone just says Ohio State. I've never heard THE used to refer to OSU in my life but maybe I'm not a big enough fan (or care about big 10 football over the sec).
dfxm12 4y ago
Is just reasonable association enough? Doesn't have to be unique, or distinguishable in some way? After all, if you watch nationally televised Football games, tons of players say they're from "the" X university. Thomas Davis says "The" University of Georgia here, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYoW8J9wRrI&t=20s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYoW8J9wRrI&t=20s (20 sec in). Davis would later go on to play for The Washington Football Team.

Spivak 4y ago

This misunderstands trademarks. Trademarks don’t mean you own the word or words being trademarked, they mean that you successfully registered the word as representing your business/firm/trade in the categories your business operates in. There’s no need for them to be unique words, Apple, Ghost, Monster, Bang (sorry my mind is stuck on energy drinks) are all trademarked. It’s the legal equivalent of having the name “the” on NPM.

ziddoap 4y ago
So, if I am misunderstanding, can you explain to me what happens if I have some sportswear that I sell which has the word "the" on it, written in capital letters? For example, sportswear that says "THE SPORTSBALL TEAM".
- thefoyer 4y ago
  Literally nothing
- joshuamorton 4y ago
  Nothing at all. It would be an issue if the shirt was only THE in all caps, and nothing else. And even then it might not be an issue if it were in pink and orange (although it still might). The analogy with npm works: thesportsballteam is a distinct package.
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    The possibility that I can't put "THE", literally the most common word, on a hat or other sportswear sort of makes my point. Absolutely absurd trademark.
    - et2o 4y ago
      That's not true at all, though. Y9u can absolutely do that as long as it's not in red and grey and sold in places customary to collegiate athletics.

tablespoon 4y ago

> What better way to argue against the absurdity of many patents and trademarks, in general, than to argue against some entity being able to trademark the most common word in the English language! Except that argument seems to rest on a misunderstanding. They didn't trademark the word, they trademarked the word in a specific context (https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/universities/the-ohio-state-university/#88571984 https://www.gerbenlaw.com/trademarks/universities/the-ohio-s...): > IC 025. US 022 039. G & S Clothing, namely, t-shirts, baseball caps and hats; all of the foregoing being promoted, distributed, and sold through channels customary to the field of sports and collegiate athletics. FIRST USE: 20050800. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050800. Frankly, the way they seem to use it is really odd (https://www.diehardsport.com/college-football/ohio-state-big-10/ohio-state-is-selling-hats-with-just-the-on-them/ https://www.diehardsport.com/college-football/ohio-state-big...). In English, "the" doesn't even really make sense as a standalone word, so I really doubt this trademark conflicts with anything.

ziddoap 4y ago
Funny enough, I actually know that it's in the context of clothing! Even better, I've spent a non-trivial amount of time dealing with trademark lawyers and getting a better grasp of trademark and patent law in the past several years -- so despite what some people seem to think, I'm not a complete idiot who is just misunderstanding everything. And I still think this is absurd.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Funny enough, I actually know that it's in the context of clothing! Even better, I've spent a non-trivial amount of time dealing with trademark lawyers and getting a better grasp of trademark and patent law in the past several years -- so despite what some people seem to think, I'm not a complete idiot who is just misunderstanding everything. You made none of that clear in your comment. Your comment read like you think no common words should not be trademarkable, so it would be interesting to know where you think the boundary should be and why it should be there. > And I still think this is absurd. We'll, to me, it doesn't seem any more absurd than Apple being able to trademark the word "Apple." The word identifies them in certain narrow contexts, so it makes sense that they can gain the right to prevent others from impersonating them in those narrow contexts, so long as any prior use is respected.