10 ms·

Tell HN: Microsoft limits GitHub accounts of Russian citizens anywhere

26 points by throwaway290 4y ago

I believe their system limits users based on past payment and IP address history. Limitation seems to concern paid features only for the time being (I only realized this when I couldn't sponsor a project yesterday). As long as you are limited, you cannot update your billing address. The only way to lift the restrictions is the appeals form*, which requires submitting a non-Russian photo ID. Apparently, regardless of where you reside, a Russian user who paid Github from Russia or with a Russian billing address at least once must obtain another citizenship (probably not a problem for the wealthy ones?) to keep using their existing Github account fully. * https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/other-site-policies/github-and-trade-controls#how-is-github-ensuring-that-folks-not-living-in-andor-having-professional-links-to-the-sanctioned-countries-and-territories-still-have-access-or-ability-to-appeal https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/other-site-policies/g...

mtmail 4y ago
In 2019 "GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20552797 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20552797 where the top comment is "US Sanctions should not affect internet services" Last year "GitHub is fully available in Iran" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25648585 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25648585 In the blog post Github says "We want every developer to be able to collaborate on GitHub, and we are working with the US government to secure similar licenses for developers in Crimea and Syria as well."
- throwaway290 4y ago
  The fact is that currently Github's limitation does not preclude committing & collaboration, just paid features (sponsoring, copilot). For the time being Microsoft lawyers are OK with it, but not sure for how long.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    To clarify, I did not blame Microsoft. IIRC, US government sanctions target specific businesses and individuals in Russia, not all residents of Russia. (They do, and for reasons I cannot fathom, target all residents of Crimea and Ukrainian territories under control of separatists.) Since no one can truly vet every single user for involvement with sanctioned entities, in the end it is about specific businesses and their legal teams, how they interpret the sanctions. Some businesses chose to preventively block anyone they suspected of physically being in Russia. They, however, accepted a proof of residence (which those who were lucky to escape and live in another country could generally produce). Microsoft, in what to me personally is the first, doesn't. If this becomes the mainstream interpretation of sanctions globally, I imagine many will have to give up and move back to Russia.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
dahdum 4y ago
My reading of their rules is that you don’t need to become a citizen. You need to have a government issued ID from the country you reside in. That seems rather simple if you are a legal resident, at least for any Western country.
- biztos 4y ago
  In 13+ years of legal residence in Germany, I was never issued an ID. I assume if a Russian citizen were in the same boat, the residence permit affixed to their passport would suffice, but it's not an ID card. AFAIK, no EU country will issue a proper ID card (valid throughout the EU) to non-citizens. In Spain at least you get a special foreigners' ID card that's more or less equal within Spain. In Germany the most you can hope for is your residence permit in card form, but I was not so lucky.
  - drakonka 4y ago
    > AFAIK, no EU country will issue a proper ID card (valid throughout the EU) to non-citizens. In Spain at least you get a special foreigners' ID card that's more or less equal within Spain. In Germany the most you can hope for is your residence permit in card form, but I was not so lucky. One of the first things I had to do upon arrival in Sweden was go to Migrationsverket to get my "Uppehållstillståndskort": a residence card. It has your residence status on it. I also had to get a Skatteverket "Identitetskort". Both of these have been accepted as valid identification documents both within and outside of Sweden, I've had to provide scans of one or the other numerous times.
    - biztos 4y ago
      Hmm, I would be really curious to see what happens when a foreigner with an Identitetskort leaves the EU. Maybe those countries that accept an EU ID would also accept that? I'm not sure about this but I think the German residence card, if you have one, is "ID" enough for a lot of things inside Germany, but there are still cases when you have to use your passport. I know at least one person who drives around with her residence permit and her driving license, but doesn't carry her passport regularly.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
juanani 4y ago
darthrupert 4y ago
If you share liberal values with the rest of us, you need to emigrate. If not, well, perhaps you can create a github clone for Russia.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  I'm not in Russia though. Just that citizenships and such stuff for us regular folks take a while in most countries...
- Adraghast 4y ago
  Seeing ignorant comments like this, it’s not hard to understand why so much of the world is sick of Western hubris.
  - darthrupert 4y ago
    Russian hubris, on the other hand, is awesome and everybody loves it!
  - Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
    Even being a liberal myself, I agree that it's a mistake to push liberalism on cultures that are not interested in liberalism. This has put completely unnecessary strain on the relations between the west and places like Russia and the Middle East. What is non-negotiable on the other hand is that whoever you are and wherever you are, the rule of law must be respected. You may correctly point out that not even the west is perfect in this regard, but then go be better than the west. Be the place we should want to emigrate to, not the other way around.
    - darthrupert 4y ago
      This is true, however, Russia was moving towards a liberal direction all by itself in the 80s and 90s. That positive progress was stopped deliberately by Putin, after he rose to power with not a small amount of nefarious actions. You might say that a truly liberal nation would have managed to stop him nevertheless. Could be, but things like this often hang by very thin threads. E.g. as we know, the American democracy was very nearly destroyed in the previous presidential elections. It could have very easily gone south.

26 points by throwaway290 4y ago

mtmail 4y ago

In 2019 "GitHub confirms it has blocked developers in Iran, Syria and Crimea" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20552797 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20552797 where the top comment is "US Sanctions should not affect internet services" Last year "GitHub is fully available in Iran" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25648585 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25648585 In the blog post Github says "We want every developer to be able to collaborate on GitHub, and we are working with the US government to secure similar licenses for developers in Crimea and Syria as well."

throwaway290 4y ago
The fact is that currently Github's limitation does not preclude committing & collaboration, just paid features (sponsoring, copilot). For the time being Microsoft lawyers are OK with it, but not sure for how long.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  To clarify, I did not blame Microsoft. IIRC, US government sanctions target specific businesses and individuals in Russia, not all residents of Russia. (They do, and for reasons I cannot fathom, target all residents of Crimea and Ukrainian territories under control of separatists.) Since no one can truly vet every single user for involvement with sanctioned entities, in the end it is about specific businesses and their legal teams, how they interpret the sanctions. Some businesses chose to preventively block anyone they suspected of physically being in Russia. They, however, accepted a proof of residence (which those who were lucky to escape and live in another country could generally produce). Microsoft, in what to me personally is the first, doesn't. If this becomes the mainstream interpretation of sanctions globally, I imagine many will have to give up and move back to Russia.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

dahdum 4y ago

My reading of their rules is that you don’t need to become a citizen. You need to have a government issued ID from the country you reside in. That seems rather simple if you are a legal resident, at least for any Western country.

biztos 4y ago
In 13+ years of legal residence in Germany, I was never issued an ID. I assume if a Russian citizen were in the same boat, the residence permit affixed to their passport would suffice, but it's not an ID card. AFAIK, no EU country will issue a proper ID card (valid throughout the EU) to non-citizens. In Spain at least you get a special foreigners' ID card that's more or less equal within Spain. In Germany the most you can hope for is your residence permit in card form, but I was not so lucky.
- drakonka 4y ago
  > AFAIK, no EU country will issue a proper ID card (valid throughout the EU) to non-citizens. In Spain at least you get a special foreigners' ID card that's more or less equal within Spain. In Germany the most you can hope for is your residence permit in card form, but I was not so lucky. One of the first things I had to do upon arrival in Sweden was go to Migrationsverket to get my "Uppehållstillståndskort": a residence card. It has your residence status on it. I also had to get a Skatteverket "Identitetskort". Both of these have been accepted as valid identification documents both within and outside of Sweden, I've had to provide scans of one or the other numerous times.
  - biztos 4y ago
    Hmm, I would be really curious to see what happens when a foreigner with an Identitetskort leaves the EU. Maybe those countries that accept an EU ID would also accept that? I'm not sure about this but I think the German residence card, if you have one, is "ID" enough for a lot of things inside Germany, but there are still cases when you have to use your passport. I know at least one person who drives around with her residence permit and her driving license, but doesn't carry her passport regularly.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

juanani 4y ago

darthrupert 4y ago

If you share liberal values with the rest of us, you need to emigrate. If not, well, perhaps you can create a github clone for Russia.

throwaway290 4y ago
I'm not in Russia though. Just that citizenships and such stuff for us regular folks take a while in most countries...
Adraghast 4y ago
Seeing ignorant comments like this, it’s not hard to understand why so much of the world is sick of Western hubris.
- darthrupert 4y ago
  Russian hubris, on the other hand, is awesome and everybody loves it!
- Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
  Even being a liberal myself, I agree that it's a mistake to push liberalism on cultures that are not interested in liberalism. This has put completely unnecessary strain on the relations between the west and places like Russia and the Middle East. What is non-negotiable on the other hand is that whoever you are and wherever you are, the rule of law must be respected. You may correctly point out that not even the west is perfect in this regard, but then go be better than the west. Be the place we should want to emigrate to, not the other way around.
  - darthrupert 4y ago
    This is true, however, Russia was moving towards a liberal direction all by itself in the 80s and 90s. That positive progress was stopped deliberately by Putin, after he rose to power with not a small amount of nefarious actions. You might say that a truly liberal nation would have managed to stop him nevertheless. Could be, but things like this often hang by very thin threads. E.g. as we know, the American democracy was very nearly destroyed in the previous presidential elections. It could have very easily gone south.