5 ms·

DSLs were capable of at least 8Mbit/s speeds close to 20 years ago. I worked for a small ISP and where were more than 100 meters (theoretical limit for cat5) be

DSLs were capable of at least 8Mbit/s speeds close to 20 years ago. I worked for a small ISP and where were more than 100 meters (theoretical limit for cat5) between residential buildings, we were setting up 8 modems on a single UTP cable. With home internet speeds back then it wasn't a bottleneck.

hinkley 4y ago
As long as you weren't stringing those cables off of rooftops. I heard too many stories of lightning strikes burning out a lot of expensive equipment.
RicoElectrico 4y ago
Wait, can DSL modems talk to each other instead of a DSLAM line card?
- chmod775 4y ago
  They may be using the term "modem" loosely here, or rather, more generally than "home modems". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem
- crazyjncsu 4y ago
  Not a traditional dsl modem, but these work well using dsl technology: https://www.amazon.com/Tupavco-Ethernet-Extender-Kit-Repeater-VDSL/dp/B01BOD8C9W https://www.amazon.com/Tupavco-Ethernet-Extender-Kit-Repeate...
  - Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
    I was about to point something like this out.
  - xhrpost 4y ago
    That's pretty cool. The specs look like this is both faster and cheaper than the main link of this thread, unless I'm missing something?
  - iforgotpassword 4y ago
    According to the description this adds at least 660ms of latency, so might be useless for certain applications. Wonder how much the TFA solution adds.
- betaby 4y ago
  Most SHDSL and some VDSL can talk each other indeed. Used that capability a lot in 200xs.
- geocar 4y ago
  Some can at least. I used Netopia SDSL routers without a DSLAM around twenty years ago to serve "high speed internet" in town in the US (Easton Maryland) a few years before they managed to get municipal broadband.
- MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
  It used to be possible many years ago, when I had a DSL modem as PCI card. There was a windows software that would put it in "server mode", and then you could connect another DSL modem to it and "dial in". Not sure if this is possible anymore, but there are Ethernet repeaters that are based on DSL tech which should work in a similar way.
- ajb 4y ago
  Its true that the specs are not symmetric in ADSL. The CO (Central Office) end is different from the CPE (Customer Premises Equipment) end, and two CPE devices cannot talk to each other. Among other things, the engineering work had to take into account that at the CO end a bunch of wires would come together and leak RF between each other. G.SHDSL is more common in a 1:1 configuration (although I think the ends may still be not symmetric) because it was designed as a T1 replacement. However some devices that could do a single line of CO were made, that can therefore talk to a CPE. See also https://www.revk.uk/2017/12/its-official-adsl-works-over-wet-string.html https://www.revk.uk/2017/12/its-official-adsl-works-over-wet...
vinay_ys 4y ago
ADSL2+ can do 22Mbps at 1KM. It can do 10Mbps at 2.8KM. But without mass-manufacturing of the such a switch/access device, it will be expensive.
baybal2 4y ago
DSL and 10BASE-T1L are not quote the same. 10BASE-T1L PHY fits on a single chip, without much of analog trickery, and the whole line encoding, signal processing is much simpler. 10BASE-T1L is what will go into 1 dollar devices, not a $100 modem.
- zokier 4y ago
  > 10BASE-T1L is what will go into 1 dollar devices, not a $100 modem. Which is why this $150 media converter product feels bit baffling tbh.
  - bcrl 4y ago
    It's a low volume product. If there were a 100k produced the cost would be substantially lower. Not that many people need 1.6km 10Mbps connections, and many of those that do need a 1.6km connection will want more than 10Mbps.

hinkley 4y ago

As long as you weren't stringing those cables off of rooftops. I heard too many stories of lightning strikes burning out a lot of expensive equipment.

RicoElectrico 4y ago

Wait, can DSL modems talk to each other instead of a DSLAM line card?

chmod775 4y ago
They may be using the term "modem" loosely here, or rather, more generally than "home modems". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem
crazyjncsu 4y ago
Not a traditional dsl modem, but these work well using dsl technology: https://www.amazon.com/Tupavco-Ethernet-Extender-Kit-Repeater-VDSL/dp/B01BOD8C9W https://www.amazon.com/Tupavco-Ethernet-Extender-Kit-Repeate...
- Dan_Sylveste 4y ago
  I was about to point something like this out.
- xhrpost 4y ago
  That's pretty cool. The specs look like this is both faster and cheaper than the main link of this thread, unless I'm missing something?
- iforgotpassword 4y ago
  According to the description this adds at least 660ms of latency, so might be useless for certain applications. Wonder how much the TFA solution adds.
betaby 4y ago
Most SHDSL and some VDSL can talk each other indeed. Used that capability a lot in 200xs.
geocar 4y ago
Some can at least. I used Netopia SDSL routers without a DSLAM around twenty years ago to serve "high speed internet" in town in the US (Easton Maryland) a few years before they managed to get municipal broadband.
MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
It used to be possible many years ago, when I had a DSL modem as PCI card. There was a windows software that would put it in "server mode", and then you could connect another DSL modem to it and "dial in". Not sure if this is possible anymore, but there are Ethernet repeaters that are based on DSL tech which should work in a similar way.
ajb 4y ago
Its true that the specs are not symmetric in ADSL. The CO (Central Office) end is different from the CPE (Customer Premises Equipment) end, and two CPE devices cannot talk to each other. Among other things, the engineering work had to take into account that at the CO end a bunch of wires would come together and leak RF between each other. G.SHDSL is more common in a 1:1 configuration (although I think the ends may still be not symmetric) because it was designed as a T1 replacement. However some devices that could do a single line of CO were made, that can therefore talk to a CPE. See also https://www.revk.uk/2017/12/its-official-adsl-works-over-wet-string.html https://www.revk.uk/2017/12/its-official-adsl-works-over-wet...

vinay_ys 4y ago

ADSL2+ can do 22Mbps at 1KM. It can do 10Mbps at 2.8KM. But without mass-manufacturing of the such a switch/access device, it will be expensive.

baybal2 4y ago

DSL and 10BASE-T1L are not quote the same. 10BASE-T1L PHY fits on a single chip, without much of analog trickery, and the whole line encoding, signal processing is much simpler. 10BASE-T1L is what will go into 1 dollar devices, not a $100 modem.

zokier 4y ago
> 10BASE-T1L is what will go into 1 dollar devices, not a $100 modem. Which is why this $150 media converter product feels bit baffling tbh.
- bcrl 4y ago
  It's a low volume product. If there were a 100k produced the cost would be substantially lower. Not that many people need 1.6km 10Mbps connections, and many of those that do need a 1.6km connection will want more than 10Mbps.