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Drugs should absolutely be illegal. This concept that some Nordic countries made all drugs legal and everything was great, is so naive. It's so freshman year of

Drugs should absolutely be illegal. This concept that some Nordic countries made all drugs legal and everything was great, is so naive. It's so freshman year of college. Making drugs illegal is a major deterrent to doing drugs. Simple as that.

Swenrekcah 4y ago
It’s a deterrent for some people sure, me included. But it doesn’t make them magically disappear, that’s just naive. There will be a demand and there will be people fulfilling the demand. It’s much better to have the fulfillers regulated instead of it being a source of money and power for criminal organisations. Just look at how well prohibition worked in the US.
upsidesinclude 4y ago
Doing drugs isn't really a problem. Having a problem with drugs is a problem made worse by prosecution of the problem. Half of the US is on some form of amphetamine from middle school onwards. We don't have an issue with people taking drugs. We want them to take the right drugs and pay the right companies for them. You might have a problem with 'drugs' but that's politics.
- frumper 4y ago
  I'd agree with your premise that having a problem with drugs is the problem, but it's naive to treat all drugs are the same. There are some drugs that have outsized negative impacts on society. Also, what amphetamine is half the US on? Sounds a bit much like hyperbole.
  - upsidesinclude 4y ago
    Ritalin, Adderall or any of the other attention correction prescribed drugs
voldacar 4y ago
It's not clear to me that I should be punished for doing something that doesn't harm or affect others simply because they dislike it. It even seems a bit unreasonable, to be honest.
- IshKebab 4y ago
  It does harm and affect others though. Depending on the drug & circumstances. But you can't just pretend that heroin users just carry on their lives like normal without negatively affecting anyone else.
  - vidarh 4y ago
    Most heroin users with access to cheap medical grade heroin (medical grade heroin is cheap - we know this because it's in use in healthcare; e.g. the UK NHS prescribes it under the generic name diamorphine for a variety of uses, including post-op pain - in hospital only - in some cases) are perfectly able to carry on with their lives - and hold down jobs. With heroin as with most drugs the criminalisation is what is causing most - not all - of the harm.
  - dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
    To repeat the oldest point in the book.. should we ban alcohol too then? Or does that not affect people depending on the circumstances?
    - IshKebab 4y ago
      No because it isn't as addictive or harmful as other drugs. Yes it depends on the circumstances, but harder drugs are more likely to cause harm. Yes I know about the David Nutt report. It's not remotely objective.
      - dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
        I draw the line at heroin in my personal usage too, so we're not of completely different minds. By your logic where should the line be drawn then? Genuine question. Is LSD fine? Ritalin? Coke? Meth?
emilsedgh 4y ago
Would you mind providing some supporting arguments?
dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
> This concept that some Nordic countries made all drugs legal and everything was great Nordic countries are actually rather (in)famously known in Europe as having strict drug laws. > Making drugs illegal is a major deterrent to doing drugs. Obviously, but people still do so many drugs, and the numbers are increasing. This is despite relatively very few countries actually even decriminalizing (_not_ legalizing) drugs. From my own experience living in the Netherlands, weed being legal means tourists come to smoke it, but a lot of the Dutch are just completely uninterested, including teenagers. If you had given me easy to access cheap weed at 16 I would've been blazing all day, but I didn't come from a place where it's legal. Dutch teenagers did. Second order effects such as perception of drugs are a thing that must be considered as well.
red_trumpet 4y ago
In germany, using drugs is not illegal. Ownling, trading and producing drugs is illegal, though.
vidarh 4y ago
No Nordic countries have made all drugs legal. If anything the nordic countries are behind the curve on decriminalisation and legalisation. As for it being a deterrent, it may be for some, but the measure should not be drug use but harm, and what is abundantly clear is that criminalisation drives up crime, and causes substantial harm up to and including large numbers of deaths. Keeping drugs illegal given the evidence we have of the harm it causes is deeply immoral.
PickledHotdog 4y ago
Ah yes, that would explain the enormous raft of benefits that Portugal came into when it decriminalised drug use for personal amounts and would explain why the Prohibition Era was so wildly successful and free from downsides Which drugs do you draw the line at? Coffee? Alcohol? Nicotine?

Swenrekcah 4y ago

It’s a deterrent for some people sure, me included. But it doesn’t make them magically disappear, that’s just naive. There will be a demand and there will be people fulfilling the demand. It’s much better to have the fulfillers regulated instead of it being a source of money and power for criminal organisations. Just look at how well prohibition worked in the US.

upsidesinclude 4y ago

Doing drugs isn't really a problem. Having a problem with drugs is a problem made worse by prosecution of the problem. Half of the US is on some form of amphetamine from middle school onwards. We don't have an issue with people taking drugs. We want them to take the right drugs and pay the right companies for them. You might have a problem with 'drugs' but that's politics.

frumper 4y ago
I'd agree with your premise that having a problem with drugs is the problem, but it's naive to treat all drugs are the same. There are some drugs that have outsized negative impacts on society. Also, what amphetamine is half the US on? Sounds a bit much like hyperbole.
- upsidesinclude 4y ago
  Ritalin, Adderall or any of the other attention correction prescribed drugs

voldacar 4y ago

It's not clear to me that I should be punished for doing something that doesn't harm or affect others simply because they dislike it. It even seems a bit unreasonable, to be honest.

IshKebab 4y ago
It does harm and affect others though. Depending on the drug & circumstances. But you can't just pretend that heroin users just carry on their lives like normal without negatively affecting anyone else.
- vidarh 4y ago
  Most heroin users with access to cheap medical grade heroin (medical grade heroin is cheap - we know this because it's in use in healthcare; e.g. the UK NHS prescribes it under the generic name diamorphine for a variety of uses, including post-op pain - in hospital only - in some cases) are perfectly able to carry on with their lives - and hold down jobs. With heroin as with most drugs the criminalisation is what is causing most - not all - of the harm.
- dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
  To repeat the oldest point in the book.. should we ban alcohol too then? Or does that not affect people depending on the circumstances?
  - IshKebab 4y ago
    No because it isn't as addictive or harmful as other drugs. Yes it depends on the circumstances, but harder drugs are more likely to cause harm. Yes I know about the David Nutt report. It's not remotely objective.
    - dj_mc_merlin 4y ago
      I draw the line at heroin in my personal usage too, so we're not of completely different minds. By your logic where should the line be drawn then? Genuine question. Is LSD fine? Ritalin? Coke? Meth?

emilsedgh 4y ago

Would you mind providing some supporting arguments?

dj_mc_merlin 4y ago

> This concept that some Nordic countries made all drugs legal and everything was great Nordic countries are actually rather (in)famously known in Europe as having strict drug laws. > Making drugs illegal is a major deterrent to doing drugs. Obviously, but people still do so many drugs, and the numbers are increasing. This is despite relatively very few countries actually even decriminalizing (_not_ legalizing) drugs. From my own experience living in the Netherlands, weed being legal means tourists come to smoke it, but a lot of the Dutch are just completely uninterested, including teenagers. If you had given me easy to access cheap weed at 16 I would've been blazing all day, but I didn't come from a place where it's legal. Dutch teenagers did. Second order effects such as perception of drugs are a thing that must be considered as well.

red_trumpet 4y ago

In germany, using drugs is not illegal. Ownling, trading and producing drugs is illegal, though.

vidarh 4y ago

No Nordic countries have made all drugs legal. If anything the nordic countries are behind the curve on decriminalisation and legalisation. As for it being a deterrent, it may be for some, but the measure should not be drug use but harm, and what is abundantly clear is that criminalisation drives up crime, and causes substantial harm up to and including large numbers of deaths. Keeping drugs illegal given the evidence we have of the harm it causes is deeply immoral.

PickledHotdog 4y ago

Ah yes, that would explain the enormous raft of benefits that Portugal came into when it decriminalised drug use for personal amounts and would explain why the Prohibition Era was so wildly successful and free from downsides Which drugs do you draw the line at? Coffee? Alcohol? Nicotine?