7 ms·

Fear and Loathing in FreeBSD

87 points by vermaden 4y ago

fmakunbound 4y ago
> I’m no longer a Linux user. Now I am a BSD user Bless these fellows who still hang on. I was one of them for a time.
GekkePrutser 4y ago
Why the fear and loathing in the title? The article is pretty positive. I use FreeBSD too as a daily driver and my experience was even better.
- harryvederci 4y ago
  I think it's because an earlier article of the author has the same title, but about OpenBSD: https://qorg11.net/openbsd.xhtml https://qorg11.net/openbsd.xhtml
- Arnavion 4y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_in_Las_Vegas_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_in_Las_Veg... It just means "My adventures with _". Actual fear or loathing is not necessarily involved.
  - gilrain 4y ago
    How have you determined it just means “my adventures with”? The book and movie both deal with actual fear and loathing…
    - Arnavion 4y ago
      Because that's how people use it.
      - 0des 4y ago
        tomc1985 4y ago
        One of the definitions on urbandictionary supports the usage as we see it here: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fear%20and%20Loathing https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fear%20and%2... (second one down) I too have seen/used "fear and loathing" in this way. In any case what do you gain by going on the offensive with pedantry?
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Thanks, I was not aware of that term.
- st_goliath 4y ago
  "Fear and Loathing in the Unrelated Movie Reference" See also: - "Everything you always wanted to know about the Unrelated Movie Reference (but were afraid to ask)" - "How I learned to stop worrying and love the Unrelated Movie Reference" - "Unrelated References Considered Harmful" - "Make Unrelated References Great Again" When attending a tech conference, you can typically find at least one of those for each day on each presentation track. The last one being an obvious new-comer in overused references. In late 2016 or so, I was at a conference where they had a run of several, _consecutive_ "Make X Great Again" presentations, all in the same room.
  - KerrAvon 4y ago
    - mikkergp 4y ago
      - throwawaygulf 4y ago
    - throwawaygulf 4y ago
  - krylon 4y ago
    > "Everything you always wanted to know about the Unrelated Movie Reference (but were afraid to ask)" Unfortunately I do not remember any relevant details, but I once came across an article that was titled "Everything you never wanted to know about $topic (and were smart enough not to ask)".
bowsamic 4y ago
Seems like a collection of personal tech notes that just trails off at the end, as one would expect from active notes. Why is this interesting to post here?
- bayindirh 4y ago
  Because it's a living document about one's experiences. This is a potentially great future document, and a good knowledge base, if the whole information extracted and grouped under sections. Also it shows the progression of feelings, and how things done in a relatively less used operating system. I don't think we need to put frames around what is interesting and worthy and whatnot. Lastly, the perspective got me by surprise: - Ah just edit this file, then use this convoluted command and, you're on the internet. Ah, static IPs doesn't work, but at least DHCP works. Just this perspective shows how we as humans get fixated to our ways and don't see the complexity inside the things we do. Also, it highlights how many cogs we align to make a system work, and we just underrate the required effort as "Just spend 4-8 hours to set this up properly, eh?". I think I can go for more, but that's enough.
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    Did you notice it totally dropped off the front page? There's a reason for that
    - bayindirh 4y ago
      Sorry, I don't follow post lifetimes. It was interesting enough for me. However, I want to quote some parts of the guidelines. > Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. > Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead. If you flag, please don't also comment that you did. > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. Have a nice day.
      - bowsamic 4y ago
mm007emko 4y ago
Just wait until the author needs to use Bluetooth. Or set up audio so it automatically switches between the front and back output when headphones are connected. Or CUDA. Or 3d acceleration with official drivers. I find FreeBSD to be a technically better operating system than contemporary Lunux-based OSes but hardware support and usability really resembles Linux space before "dumbed down" dostros like Ubuntu where everything worked out of the box, generally. Pretty unfortunate to say the least.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  > Lunux > dostros It seems your "i" is broken :-) But yes, hardware (and software) support is the main reason I've been using Linux for the last 5 years after 15 years of FreeBSD. Back in 2000-2010 it would more or less suck equally on both so it didn't really matter, and the Linuxolator was good enough to run most Linux things (played a lot of Unreal Tournament on my FreeBSD box back in the day!), but today is situation is much better on Linux and has kind of stagnated on FreeBSD. This is not entirely FreeBSD's fault, but that doesn't change the end-result, and I have a lot of other things I want to do now than muck about with my system.
- vermaden 4y ago
  It all depends on many aspects. For example not so long ago I used Ubuntu MATE (whatever was latest) on my son's ThinkPad X220T. I have three issues: - 1st minor: After rotating screen MATE Panel moved in various places (xkill helps) - 2nd minor: sometimes the Bluetooth or WiFi applet in tray area was 'doubled' (did not solved this one) - 3rd major: after suspend/resume cycle I could not get WiFi to work (reboot required) After failing to find solution for this WiFi problem on Ubuntu MATE I though that I will try GhostBSD there (based on FreeBSD STABLE) ... and these were my problems: - 1st major: after suspend/resume cycle I could not get WiFi to work (reboot required) :> So I left my kid with GhostBSD till now - also he likes the 'kernel messages' at boot comparing to 'silent' Ubuntu MATE boot :) Regards.
- 0des 4y ago
  Generally everything after winmodems worked out of the box.
- 4y ago
mah4k4l 4y ago
Maybe off-topic but what I would really love to see would be for someone to start making BSD based smartphones. It is now easily starting to fit that platform as well not just the PC:s. And BSD lisence would make it possible to make profit in the progress. Free as in freedom. Everything open source. Sandboxed partitions. REAL crypto. No Googler Inside. Stick it to the Man. Everybody wins.
- krylon 4y ago
  Technically, you could build that on top of Linux, too, just like you could build an Android-lookalike on top of FreeBSD if you wanted to. That being said, it would be nice, at least if the resulting system exposed more of its Unix guts, but I am not overly optimistic.
  - mah4k4l 4y ago
    Just saying that the BSD license gives you more freedom for commercial activity over GPL. You can literally do what you want with it, sell it as your own product and all. I'm not the engineer type myself (yet), just a holistic thinker who gives a fuck.
- rjsw 4y ago
  There was a BSD based smartphone [1], not sure it was any more open a platform than Android though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Hiptop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Hiptop
  - jdcarter 4y ago
    Only the last Danger device ran NetBSD; all prior ones used a proprietary, in-house OS. It didn't run any of the normal BSD userland, however, as Danger had its own Java-based userland and UI layer. Danger was bought by Microsoft, however, right around the time the NetBSD phone was going to market. AFAIK the tech didn't continue much past the Microsoft acquisition. (Source: worked at Danger on the NetBSD project, but left shortly before the Microsoft deal.)
  - 4y ago
hibbelig 4y ago
I'm surprised that network via DHCP isn't coming up automatically. Perhaps FreeBSD supports that and the author just didn't use it? (I used FreeBSD a looong time ago, and am vaguely thinking of trying again one day, so it would be interesting to know.)
- krylon 4y ago
  The installer asks you about your network configuration (no idea how it deals with wifi, though). If you answer "use DHCP", it just works(tm), at least for wired and virtual network interfaces.
- craftkiller 4y ago
  Yeah I was surprised the author did all the setup necessary to get their wifi card working and then resorted to manually launching dhclient and wpa_supplicant. All the author needed to add to their /etc/rc.conf (or /etc/rc.conf.d/network) is something along the lines of: ifconfig_wlan0="up WPA DHCP" and then optionally add IPv6 (though the posted article seems to be preferring IPv4): ifconfig_wlan0_ipv6="inet6 accept_rtadv"
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87 points by vermaden 4y ago

> I’m no longer a Linux user. Now I am a BSD user Bless these fellows who still hang on. I was one of them for a time.

Why the fear and loathing in the title? The article is pretty positive. I use FreeBSD too as a daily driver and my experience was even better.

harryvederci 4y ago
I think it's because an earlier article of the author has the same title, but about OpenBSD: https://qorg11.net/openbsd.xhtml https://qorg11.net/openbsd.xhtml
Arnavion 4y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_in_Las_Vegas_(film) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_in_Las_Veg... It just means "My adventures with _". Actual fear or loathing is not necessarily involved.
- gilrain 4y ago
  How have you determined it just means “my adventures with”? The book and movie both deal with actual fear and loathing…
  - Arnavion 4y ago
    Because that's how people use it.
    - 0des 4y ago
      - tomc1985 4y ago
        One of the definitions on urbandictionary supports the usage as we see it here: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fear%20and%20Loathing https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fear%20and%2... (second one down) I too have seen/used "fear and loathing" in this way. In any case what do you gain by going on the offensive with pedantry?
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Thanks, I was not aware of that term.
st_goliath 4y ago
"Fear and Loathing in the Unrelated Movie Reference" See also: - "Everything you always wanted to know about the Unrelated Movie Reference (but were afraid to ask)" - "How I learned to stop worrying and love the Unrelated Movie Reference" - "Unrelated References Considered Harmful" - "Make Unrelated References Great Again" When attending a tech conference, you can typically find at least one of those for each day on each presentation track. The last one being an obvious new-comer in overused references. In late 2016 or so, I was at a conference where they had a run of several, _consecutive_ "Make X Great Again" presentations, all in the same room.
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  - mikkergp 4y ago
    - throwawaygulf 4y ago
  - throwawaygulf 4y ago
- krylon 4y ago
  > "Everything you always wanted to know about the Unrelated Movie Reference (but were afraid to ask)" Unfortunately I do not remember any relevant details, but I once came across an article that was titled "Everything you never wanted to know about $topic (and were smart enough not to ask)".

bowsamic 4y ago

Seems like a collection of personal tech notes that just trails off at the end, as one would expect from active notes. Why is this interesting to post here?

bayindirh 4y ago
Because it's a living document about one's experiences. This is a potentially great future document, and a good knowledge base, if the whole information extracted and grouped under sections. Also it shows the progression of feelings, and how things done in a relatively less used operating system. I don't think we need to put frames around what is interesting and worthy and whatnot. Lastly, the perspective got me by surprise: - Ah just edit this file, then use this convoluted command and, you're on the internet. Ah, static IPs doesn't work, but at least DHCP works. Just this perspective shows how we as humans get fixated to our ways and don't see the complexity inside the things we do. Also, it highlights how many cogs we align to make a system work, and we just underrate the required effort as "Just spend 4-8 hours to set this up properly, eh?". I think I can go for more, but that's enough.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  Did you notice it totally dropped off the front page? There's a reason for that
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    Sorry, I don't follow post lifetimes. It was interesting enough for me. However, I want to quote some parts of the guidelines. > Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. > Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead. If you flag, please don't also comment that you did. > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading. Have a nice day.
    - bowsamic 4y ago

mm007emko 4y ago

Just wait until the author needs to use Bluetooth. Or set up audio so it automatically switches between the front and back output when headphones are connected. Or CUDA. Or 3d acceleration with official drivers. I find FreeBSD to be a technically better operating system than contemporary Lunux-based OSes but hardware support and usability really resembles Linux space before "dumbed down" dostros like Ubuntu where everything worked out of the box, generally. Pretty unfortunate to say the least.

Beltalowda 4y ago
> Lunux > dostros It seems your "i" is broken :-) But yes, hardware (and software) support is the main reason I've been using Linux for the last 5 years after 15 years of FreeBSD. Back in 2000-2010 it would more or less suck equally on both so it didn't really matter, and the Linuxolator was good enough to run most Linux things (played a lot of Unreal Tournament on my FreeBSD box back in the day!), but today is situation is much better on Linux and has kind of stagnated on FreeBSD. This is not entirely FreeBSD's fault, but that doesn't change the end-result, and I have a lot of other things I want to do now than muck about with my system.
vermaden 4y ago
It all depends on many aspects. For example not so long ago I used Ubuntu MATE (whatever was latest) on my son's ThinkPad X220T. I have three issues: - 1st minor: After rotating screen MATE Panel moved in various places (xkill helps) - 2nd minor: sometimes the Bluetooth or WiFi applet in tray area was 'doubled' (did not solved this one) - 3rd major: after suspend/resume cycle I could not get WiFi to work (reboot required) After failing to find solution for this WiFi problem on Ubuntu MATE I though that I will try GhostBSD there (based on FreeBSD STABLE) ... and these were my problems: - 1st major: after suspend/resume cycle I could not get WiFi to work (reboot required) :> So I left my kid with GhostBSD till now - also he likes the 'kernel messages' at boot comparing to 'silent' Ubuntu MATE boot :) Regards.
0des 4y ago
Generally everything after winmodems worked out of the box.
4y ago

mah4k4l 4y ago

Maybe off-topic but what I would really love to see would be for someone to start making BSD based smartphones. It is now easily starting to fit that platform as well not just the PC:s. And BSD lisence would make it possible to make profit in the progress. Free as in freedom. Everything open source. Sandboxed partitions. REAL crypto. No Googler Inside. Stick it to the Man. Everybody wins.

krylon 4y ago
Technically, you could build that on top of Linux, too, just like you could build an Android-lookalike on top of FreeBSD if you wanted to. That being said, it would be nice, at least if the resulting system exposed more of its Unix guts, but I am not overly optimistic.
- mah4k4l 4y ago
  Just saying that the BSD license gives you more freedom for commercial activity over GPL. You can literally do what you want with it, sell it as your own product and all. I'm not the engineer type myself (yet), just a holistic thinker who gives a fuck.
rjsw 4y ago
There was a BSD based smartphone [1], not sure it was any more open a platform than Android though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Hiptop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Hiptop
- jdcarter 4y ago
  Only the last Danger device ran NetBSD; all prior ones used a proprietary, in-house OS. It didn't run any of the normal BSD userland, however, as Danger had its own Java-based userland and UI layer. Danger was bought by Microsoft, however, right around the time the NetBSD phone was going to market. AFAIK the tech didn't continue much past the Microsoft acquisition. (Source: worked at Danger on the NetBSD project, but left shortly before the Microsoft deal.)
- 4y ago

hibbelig 4y ago

I'm surprised that network via DHCP isn't coming up automatically. Perhaps FreeBSD supports that and the author just didn't use it? (I used FreeBSD a looong time ago, and am vaguely thinking of trying again one day, so it would be interesting to know.)

krylon 4y ago
The installer asks you about your network configuration (no idea how it deals with wifi, though). If you answer "use DHCP", it just works(tm), at least for wired and virtual network interfaces.
craftkiller 4y ago
Yeah I was surprised the author did all the setup necessary to get their wifi card working and then resorted to manually launching dhclient and wpa_supplicant. All the author needed to add to their /etc/rc.conf (or /etc/rc.conf.d/network) is something along the lines of: ifconfig_wlan0="up WPA DHCP" and then optionally add IPv6 (though the posted article seems to be preferring IPv4): ifconfig_wlan0_ipv6="inet6 accept_rtadv"

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