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No. The article details that Hare's package manager is your system package manager, e.g. aptitude. Such package managers have independent signatures, features a

No. The article details that Hare's package manager is your system package manager, e.g. aptitude. Such package managers have independent signatures, features against partial updates, reproducible builds, and independent accountability, as well as many other advantages besides.

pwdisswordfish9 4y ago
People offering Hare packages will not bother to wait for distro repositories to graciously package them six months later. They will just tell their users to copy-paste curl-to-bash one-liners. And users will follow, because why would they want to use stale or outright non-existent distro packages? ‘But I am going to tell people not to do that!’ As if people are going to bow down before the unstoppable appeal of your charisma instead of following the path of least resistance. Of course, this is all assuming there will be meaningful external Hare packages in the first place.
- ddevault 4y ago
  Use a distribution whose release cadence matches your needs. I use Alpine Linux, which has frequent updates on edge and biannual stable releases, which allows me to enjoy both approaches. Debian is designed for the longer term, Arch is designed to be bleeding edge. The idea that Linux distros have outdated software is a symptom of the fact that people are not choosing the right tool for the job, something that I am particularly unsympathetic to when thinking of an audience of software engineers. Hare is a conservative language which strongly encourages a conservative approach. We are not here to move fast and break things. Culture comes from the top-down, and while we may not succeed for all users, we can certainly set the standard of quality for the language. C has no successful independent package manager, yet we rarely if ever see people distributing C libraries with curl|bash.
  - andrewflnr 4y ago
    My cadence needs are not necessarily the same for my OS as for my work itself. Maybe my work being bleeding-edge is enough to worry about without my OS bleeding all over the place too, eh? Third-party repos would have been a better answer, IMO.
    - ddevault 4y ago
      Remember that Hare programs ordinarily have only a small number of dependencies, countable on one or two hands. If you need a newer version of a specific one, you can send a patch for your distribution updating the package when you need it, or download it and add it to your HAREPATH manually, or vendor it in your tree.
  - bbkane 4y ago
    I (and I would guess most engineers) am more likely to choose a different language for projects rather than install a specific Linux distro to access recently updated libraries
    - ddevault 4y ago
      This, in my opinion, is a trait of a poor engineer, and falls outside of our target audience. Strong engineers are serious about the entire system, including the OS it runs on, and treats it as an engineering target no different from any other. If you feel differently, then Hare may not be for you, which is fine -- it's not designed to solve everyone's problems. It's designed to appeal to a specific audience.
      - majewsky 4y ago
        This sentiment alone makes me interested in checking out your work. The average tech stack is a complete hodge-podge driven by resume padding and CADT and I feel like this is the source of at least some of our current problems in tech.

pwdisswordfish9 4y ago

People offering Hare packages will not bother to wait for distro repositories to graciously package them six months later. They will just tell their users to copy-paste curl-to-bash one-liners. And users will follow, because why would they want to use stale or outright non-existent distro packages? ‘But I am going to tell people not to do that!’ As if people are going to bow down before the unstoppable appeal of your charisma instead of following the path of least resistance. Of course, this is all assuming there will be meaningful external Hare packages in the first place.

ddevault 4y ago
Use a distribution whose release cadence matches your needs. I use Alpine Linux, which has frequent updates on edge and biannual stable releases, which allows me to enjoy both approaches. Debian is designed for the longer term, Arch is designed to be bleeding edge. The idea that Linux distros have outdated software is a symptom of the fact that people are not choosing the right tool for the job, something that I am particularly unsympathetic to when thinking of an audience of software engineers. Hare is a conservative language which strongly encourages a conservative approach. We are not here to move fast and break things. Culture comes from the top-down, and while we may not succeed for all users, we can certainly set the standard of quality for the language. C has no successful independent package manager, yet we rarely if ever see people distributing C libraries with curl|bash.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  My cadence needs are not necessarily the same for my OS as for my work itself. Maybe my work being bleeding-edge is enough to worry about without my OS bleeding all over the place too, eh? Third-party repos would have been a better answer, IMO.
  - ddevault 4y ago
    Remember that Hare programs ordinarily have only a small number of dependencies, countable on one or two hands. If you need a newer version of a specific one, you can send a patch for your distribution updating the package when you need it, or download it and add it to your HAREPATH manually, or vendor it in your tree.
- bbkane 4y ago
  I (and I would guess most engineers) am more likely to choose a different language for projects rather than install a specific Linux distro to access recently updated libraries
  - ddevault 4y ago
    This, in my opinion, is a trait of a poor engineer, and falls outside of our target audience. Strong engineers are serious about the entire system, including the OS it runs on, and treats it as an engineering target no different from any other. If you feel differently, then Hare may not be for you, which is fine -- it's not designed to solve everyone's problems. It's designed to appeal to a specific audience.
    - majewsky 4y ago
      This sentiment alone makes me interested in checking out your work. The average tech stack is a complete hodge-podge driven by resume padding and CADT and I feel like this is the source of at least some of our current problems in tech.