7 ms·

Within a second of seeing the 'improved' ones I spot what is, to my mind at least, an immediate failure - the detail resolution is far too small. It doesn't acc

Within a second of seeing the 'improved' ones I spot what is, to my mind at least, an immediate failure - the detail resolution is far too small. It doesn't account for the printing limitations on small fabric tags, never mind the ability of old fogeys such as myself to be able to squint that hard and actually read them. I have no idea even looking on my screen here what the difference between the first three is supposed to be, and the numerals in the three thereafter are only legible because I'm staring at a bright screen, not swearing into the void in my laundry room, trying to find a better light. All that aside, I feel I'd still have to look their new interpretations up. International visual vernacular .. doesn't really exist.

carlmr 4y ago
I think they are a lot more intuitive than the old ones, but I'd need to look up some stuff. I don't know what's the difference between normal, perm press and delicate for example. Or why the 3 knobs on the washing machine should represent it The flask for bleach, and the drying symbols are much clearer though. The detail in some is a bit too high for some clothing tags, I'd agree on that.
- semi-extrinsic 4y ago
  Speaking of bleach though - when was the last time anyone here used bleach while washing clothes? I have never in my entire life done so.
  - csixty4 4y ago
    I use it all the time. In fact I was staying at an airbnb recently and my hair dye stained all his towels and pillow cases (a week after I got it done!) so I gave them a good bleaching before I left and left them sparkling white.
  - p_l 4y ago
    Maybe not regularly, as bleach is quite damaging to fabric and others, but often enough to have a bottle of bleach available in laundry room
    - semi-extrinsic 4y ago
      Ok, just to clarify, do people say "bleach" when the mean products containing sodium percarbonate (like Vanish, OxiClean)? Or do you mean actual bleach (as in sodium hypochlorite)?
      - frosted-flakes 4y ago
        Actual bleach. I typically use oxi-clean, very rarely use bleach. I've found that even the most severe staining/yellowing can be removed by soaking the clothes in the washer overnight with oxi-clean (something that's not really possible with front loader machines).
      - p_l 4y ago
        Well, I mostly use things like Vanish/OxiClean, but there are times when I hit proper bleach - but admittedly that one is rare enough (especially since switching to coloured bedsheets) that I do not keep bottle of sodium hypochlorite on hand.
  - leephillips 4y ago
    I use it frequently.
bergenty 4y ago
They are way more recognizable. When I looked at the example label at the end I immediately knew what all those new symbols meant. I still didn’t know what the original ones meant on the left.
secretsatan 4y ago
I know a few of the symbols, mostly to check if I can actually stick the clothes I'm buying in a washing machine or if they are effectively a single use item (for me). After checking I can wash them, the most important value after that would be the temperature, which is no longer readable. I say that, but I stick everything at 30 anyway... (Alright, some things I know are safe to wash at 60deg, like bathroom towels, so they get the extra heat)
mikeryan 4y ago
So I wear reading glasses and I’m with you the first 9 “improved” icons are indistinguishable to me at a glance. In particular the older ones with 20/30/50 are instantly readable where the new ones are not. The iconography is updated which is nice but the line weights are too thick.
- april_22 4y ago
  line weights are too thick. Way too thick, overlapping and thats why probably impossible to print on most textile labal printers. I also find most of the labels looking the same - similar to when Google redesigned their icons and not everyone liked it. https://9to5google.com/2020/10/06/gmail-logo-workspace-redesign/ https://9to5google.com/2020/10/06/gmail-logo-workspace-redes...
llamajams 4y ago
UX designers everywhere: "this doesn't look like sex on my retina pro"
masklinn 4y ago
> Within a second of seeing the 'improved' ones I spot what is, to my mind at least, an immediate failure - the detail resolution is far too small. Indeed, especially given the current nonsense is commonly unreadable already after just a wash or two (if not before you've washed the garment).
leephillips 4y ago
I came here to make the same point you did. The originals are superior, largely because their open design will remain legible after significant deterioration. The slight increase in obviousness of the redesign is not worth the loss in legibility. I still don’t know what most of the new symbols are supposed to mean. Also, I missed a link to a legend for the original design, for which the author’s animated version does not compensate.
mc32 4y ago
Yeah, also the mercury thermometer sideways?! It's counter-intuitive. That said, the new symbolism slightly improves upon the old one which is not intuitive at all. You have to learn what they mean and then they're fine. They're just not intuitive. The water temp in the old one is expressed much more clearly than the new one. The most significant improvement is the bleach/no bleach symbol. The rest either don't improve much or actually make things less legible. Also, sidenote the "drying" symbol looks a bit like the hotsprings/onsen symbol --the official symbol is a little diff as it has an oval, but on roadsigns they drop the oval sometimes so it looks very similar (see U+2668)
b112 4y ago
I really find the idea that "having to know, or lookup stuff", as a problem, offensive. Laundry is literally filled with things to know, outside of these symbols. Household tasks are. I don't see labels on bleech bottles, saying not to mix it with vinegar or you could die. Yet people have done that in the wash, so why not start there? Here's what each sane person should do, who actually takes time to look at tags. (after all if you couldn't care less, and never look at tags, what's the point?) Print a copy of the extended tag list out, and hang it in the laundry room at home. I have a cabinet where I keep extra detergent, etc, so I taped it up on the inside of the door. Problem sovled. For a laundrymat, for your smartphone, download a properly formatted, for easy phone viewing version. Done. Non-problem, compared to expecting the entire planet to change. We don't need another standard!! All that would happen is I'd have two standards to look at.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  That’s not ‘problem solved’. That’s an ‘acceptable workaround’. The problem is ultimately that the symbols are so abstract that nobody remembers them.
- iratewizard 4y ago
  The tags aren't that hard to remember, either. Do not bleach is the only one that you have to think, oh right the triangle is a bottle of bleach. The circle in a square is describing spin cycle. The circle with no square is describing drying without heat. The iron is describing an iron. The dots always represent the three levels of heat, just like on your iron. I remember this in spite of not having done laundry in 5 years. And you're exactly right. New symbols mean little to me, I would still need to look them up and then there would be twice as many bad symbols. This redesign article is an example of why you should avoid UI/UX people who can only design. They'll change your branding everytime they get bored and create more headache than they solve.
  - Izkata 4y ago
    > The circle with no square is describing drying without heat. That's the square with no circle, the circle with no square is very different.
atx42 4y ago
I don't think they did real world testing on the "improved" ones. I'd say it's obvious the number thirty could use a degree sign after it, but making it smaller and putting a box around it instead of in water, makes zero sense to me.
scrame 4y ago
That, and the line-dry one looks like a turd with stink lines.
quitit 4y ago
Also some are equally confusing as the originals. There isnt much point in making a competing standard as we already know what happens (more confusion, more fractured knowledge, etc.) Instead, just print a laundry chart and leave it with the washer. As for whitegoods manufacturers: they could, as a minimum, describe their various wash and dry settings using the appropriate symbols rather than marketing terms.
assttoasstmgr 4y ago
The failure of this UI/UX "expert" to grasp this most basic common sense detail is why modern websites and applications are generally speaking top-heavy UI/UX disasters. Over the last 15 years or so I think we've taken a few giant steps backwards as we let freewheeling artists take over. Yet go back to the early 80s and look at the original Macintosh UI which was designed by an artist - Susan Kare - with complete elegance and simplicity. What has happened? Just because computers have increased in speed doesn't mean the complexity of the artwork must increase proportionally - often at the expense of usability.
- SZJX 4y ago
  This sounds overly negative and exaggerated. Adding quotation marks around the expert seems excessive, as this is surely the author’s profession no matter you agree with his idea or not. If you compare design nowadays and say the geocity days it’s a huge leap. And for every Macintosh UI there were most likely countless unintelligible designs that nobody remembers 40 years later.
novosel 4y ago
Those labels are printed too small for all intended audiences. I propose a Moore's law of a label printing density doubling every 18 months (years?).

carlmr 4y ago

I think they are a lot more intuitive than the old ones, but I'd need to look up some stuff. I don't know what's the difference between normal, perm press and delicate for example. Or why the 3 knobs on the washing machine should represent it The flask for bleach, and the drying symbols are much clearer though. The detail in some is a bit too high for some clothing tags, I'd agree on that.

semi-extrinsic 4y ago
Speaking of bleach though - when was the last time anyone here used bleach while washing clothes? I have never in my entire life done so.
- csixty4 4y ago
  I use it all the time. In fact I was staying at an airbnb recently and my hair dye stained all his towels and pillow cases (a week after I got it done!) so I gave them a good bleaching before I left and left them sparkling white.
- p_l 4y ago
  Maybe not regularly, as bleach is quite damaging to fabric and others, but often enough to have a bottle of bleach available in laundry room
  - semi-extrinsic 4y ago
    Ok, just to clarify, do people say "bleach" when the mean products containing sodium percarbonate (like Vanish, OxiClean)? Or do you mean actual bleach (as in sodium hypochlorite)?
    - frosted-flakes 4y ago
      Actual bleach. I typically use oxi-clean, very rarely use bleach. I've found that even the most severe staining/yellowing can be removed by soaking the clothes in the washer overnight with oxi-clean (something that's not really possible with front loader machines).
    - p_l 4y ago
      Well, I mostly use things like Vanish/OxiClean, but there are times when I hit proper bleach - but admittedly that one is rare enough (especially since switching to coloured bedsheets) that I do not keep bottle of sodium hypochlorite on hand.
- leephillips 4y ago
  I use it frequently.

bergenty 4y ago

They are way more recognizable. When I looked at the example label at the end I immediately knew what all those new symbols meant. I still didn’t know what the original ones meant on the left.

secretsatan 4y ago

I know a few of the symbols, mostly to check if I can actually stick the clothes I'm buying in a washing machine or if they are effectively a single use item (for me). After checking I can wash them, the most important value after that would be the temperature, which is no longer readable. I say that, but I stick everything at 30 anyway... (Alright, some things I know are safe to wash at 60deg, like bathroom towels, so they get the extra heat)

mikeryan 4y ago

So I wear reading glasses and I’m with you the first 9 “improved” icons are indistinguishable to me at a glance. In particular the older ones with 20/30/50 are instantly readable where the new ones are not. The iconography is updated which is nice but the line weights are too thick.

april_22 4y ago
line weights are too thick. Way too thick, overlapping and thats why probably impossible to print on most textile labal printers. I also find most of the labels looking the same - similar to when Google redesigned their icons and not everyone liked it. https://9to5google.com/2020/10/06/gmail-logo-workspace-redesign/ https://9to5google.com/2020/10/06/gmail-logo-workspace-redes...

llamajams 4y ago

UX designers everywhere: "this doesn't look like sex on my retina pro"

masklinn 4y ago

> Within a second of seeing the 'improved' ones I spot what is, to my mind at least, an immediate failure - the detail resolution is far too small. Indeed, especially given the current nonsense is commonly unreadable already after just a wash or two (if not before you've washed the garment).

leephillips 4y ago

I came here to make the same point you did. The originals are superior, largely because their open design will remain legible after significant deterioration. The slight increase in obviousness of the redesign is not worth the loss in legibility. I still don’t know what most of the new symbols are supposed to mean. Also, I missed a link to a legend for the original design, for which the author’s animated version does not compensate.

mc32 4y ago

Yeah, also the mercury thermometer sideways?! It's counter-intuitive. That said, the new symbolism slightly improves upon the old one which is not intuitive at all. You have to learn what they mean and then they're fine. They're just not intuitive. The water temp in the old one is expressed much more clearly than the new one. The most significant improvement is the bleach/no bleach symbol. The rest either don't improve much or actually make things less legible. Also, sidenote the "drying" symbol looks a bit like the hotsprings/onsen symbol --the official symbol is a little diff as it has an oval, but on roadsigns they drop the oval sometimes so it looks very similar (see U+2668)

b112 4y ago

I really find the idea that "having to know, or lookup stuff", as a problem, offensive. Laundry is literally filled with things to know, outside of these symbols. Household tasks are. I don't see labels on bleech bottles, saying not to mix it with vinegar or you could die. Yet people have done that in the wash, so why not start there? Here's what each sane person should do, who actually takes time to look at tags. (after all if you couldn't care less, and never look at tags, what's the point?) Print a copy of the extended tag list out, and hang it in the laundry room at home. I have a cabinet where I keep extra detergent, etc, so I taped it up on the inside of the door. Problem sovled. For a laundrymat, for your smartphone, download a properly formatted, for easy phone viewing version. Done. Non-problem, compared to expecting the entire planet to change. We don't need another standard!! All that would happen is I'd have two standards to look at.

Aeolun 4y ago
That’s not ‘problem solved’. That’s an ‘acceptable workaround’. The problem is ultimately that the symbols are so abstract that nobody remembers them.
iratewizard 4y ago
The tags aren't that hard to remember, either. Do not bleach is the only one that you have to think, oh right the triangle is a bottle of bleach. The circle in a square is describing spin cycle. The circle with no square is describing drying without heat. The iron is describing an iron. The dots always represent the three levels of heat, just like on your iron. I remember this in spite of not having done laundry in 5 years. And you're exactly right. New symbols mean little to me, I would still need to look them up and then there would be twice as many bad symbols. This redesign article is an example of why you should avoid UI/UX people who can only design. They'll change your branding everytime they get bored and create more headache than they solve.
- Izkata 4y ago
  > The circle with no square is describing drying without heat. That's the square with no circle, the circle with no square is very different.

atx42 4y ago

I don't think they did real world testing on the "improved" ones. I'd say it's obvious the number thirty could use a degree sign after it, but making it smaller and putting a box around it instead of in water, makes zero sense to me.

scrame 4y ago

That, and the line-dry one looks like a turd with stink lines.

quitit 4y ago

Also some are equally confusing as the originals. There isnt much point in making a competing standard as we already know what happens (more confusion, more fractured knowledge, etc.) Instead, just print a laundry chart and leave it with the washer. As for whitegoods manufacturers: they could, as a minimum, describe their various wash and dry settings using the appropriate symbols rather than marketing terms.

assttoasstmgr 4y ago

The failure of this UI/UX "expert" to grasp this most basic common sense detail is why modern websites and applications are generally speaking top-heavy UI/UX disasters. Over the last 15 years or so I think we've taken a few giant steps backwards as we let freewheeling artists take over. Yet go back to the early 80s and look at the original Macintosh UI which was designed by an artist - Susan Kare - with complete elegance and simplicity. What has happened? Just because computers have increased in speed doesn't mean the complexity of the artwork must increase proportionally - often at the expense of usability.

SZJX 4y ago
This sounds overly negative and exaggerated. Adding quotation marks around the expert seems excessive, as this is surely the author’s profession no matter you agree with his idea or not. If you compare design nowadays and say the geocity days it’s a huge leap. And for every Macintosh UI there were most likely countless unintelligible designs that nobody remembers 40 years later.

novosel 4y ago

Those labels are printed too small for all intended audiences. I propose a Moore's law of a label printing density doubling every 18 months (years?).