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> Exactly where in that schedule am I supposed to fit a FOUR HOUR coding assignment. That's ridiculous. Unless you're providing child care, this is simply too m

> Exactly where in that schedule am I supposed to fit a FOUR HOUR coding assignment. That's ridiculous. Unless you're providing child care, this is simply too much. What do you do for normal on-site interviews or phone interviews that have similar time demands? I’m also a parent of small children with a packed schedule, but I’d much rather take a 4-hour take home and handle it on the weekend or when I’m flexible. Giving up half or whole days of PTO to interview in real-time is actually worse for my overall schedule, not better, because I need that PTO more than ever as a parent of young kids. The flexibility of take-homes is great as a parent.

joshmanders 4y ago
It’s easy really. Walk. As a senior it’s insulting to expect to do a four hour take home test. When you hire a Michelin star chef do you make them make you a four course meal to prove they can cook? Do you make a surgeon do four hour surgery? It’s absolutely asinine that we accept this behavior in our industry. You’d be laughed at by every possible candidate in other industries.
- unnamed38388 4y ago
  I immediately decline if a company asks for unpaid work as part of the interview process. If it’s paid I don’t have an issue with it. I assume if a company starts the relationship with asking for unpaid work that expectation will continue throughout your employment. There are simply too many companies hiring that don’t require this that it’s easy to just pass.
  - PragmaticPulp 4y ago
    > I immediately decline if a company asks for unpaid work as part of the interview process. Take-home challenges aren't unpaid work. They're just a take-home replacement for the on-site interview. If anyone tries to get you to do unpaid work (as in, actual work that the company needs to be done rather than an arbitrary challenge given to candidates for review) then you should absolutely walk.
- SkyPuncher 4y ago
  > When you hire a Michelin star chef do you make them make you a four course meal to prove they can cook? > Do you make a surgeon do four hour surgery? These are both poor examples. These are both credentialed examples. Both have already demonstrated their skill based on the credentials they hold. Software development is not a credentialed field. Titles vary wildly - especially at startups where titles inflate.
  - ls15 4y ago
    Shouldn't a CS degree from a reputable university then just replace all the screening that is made for people without relevant degrees?
    - hackyhacky 4y ago
      As someone who teaches CS at a reputable university, I can state with certainty that we graduate a lot of students who have no clue how to code. As someone who used to do hiring for a small company, I can state that a lot of people who have degrees have no clue how to code. Until our field gets the equivalent of a bar exam or NBME, each employer has to evaluate candidates on their own.
      - ls15 4y ago
        CS != coding, but CS combined with coding practice is an excellent basis. Now, how many of those graduates that managed to work in a software development job afterwards can still not code a couple of years later?
        hackyhacky 4y ago
        I never claimed that CS == coding, nor did I claim that CS graduates can't learn to code. All that I said is that a CS degree alone is not a sufficient substitute for screening, in counter to the grandparent comment.
        gus75 4y ago
        I did quite a bit of recruiting for a software team in a large company. I can tell you that years of experience do not guarantee good quality code.
- grepfru_it 4y ago
  Actors must audition before they are chosen for a role. Sometimes several times..
  - electrondood 4y ago
    Yeah, these are called technical interviews, and they usually take an entire day. I spend at least a two weeks studying for these before every job search. If I have 4 jobs in my pipeline that assign me 4 hours of homework each, that's 16 hours of bullshit I have to slog through in addition to my study time, prep work, and a solid week or two of whiteboarding. This doesn't include the recruiter's technical trivia screen and the codeshare screen. No thanks.
    - grepfru_it 4y ago
      If no thanks then why complain about 4 hours each? You are going to pick and choose the interviews you are going to do so what exactly is the problem if you say no any or all of them?
      - corrral 4y ago
        > Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
- underdeserver 4y ago
  Who would hire a chef without trying their food? And a surgeon needs accreditation from the state.
anon291 4y ago
Yeah I don't do these. I only do on-sites if I have a clear desire to work for the company. At the place I'm working at now, I did not do an onsite. At the place I was at previously, it was clear they were giving me an offer before I did the onsite, since the onsite was basically a 'get-to-know-you' thing. That's fine. On-sites serve a purpose of making sure you're not making a terrible decision. I actually made the decision this time to do two on-sites which is rare. This was because I had colleagues from previous positions at both locations and I honestly wanted to get a good sense. However, one company was just really weird, so I learned that at the on-site. even though they wanted me... I said no. So in terms of preventing mistakes, on-sites are great. But, I'm not doing a 4 hour interview before any offer is made, or a clear indication of interest.

joshmanders 4y ago

It’s easy really. Walk. As a senior it’s insulting to expect to do a four hour take home test. When you hire a Michelin star chef do you make them make you a four course meal to prove they can cook? Do you make a surgeon do four hour surgery? It’s absolutely asinine that we accept this behavior in our industry. You’d be laughed at by every possible candidate in other industries.

unnamed38388 4y ago
I immediately decline if a company asks for unpaid work as part of the interview process. If it’s paid I don’t have an issue with it. I assume if a company starts the relationship with asking for unpaid work that expectation will continue throughout your employment. There are simply too many companies hiring that don’t require this that it’s easy to just pass.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  > I immediately decline if a company asks for unpaid work as part of the interview process. Take-home challenges aren't unpaid work. They're just a take-home replacement for the on-site interview. If anyone tries to get you to do unpaid work (as in, actual work that the company needs to be done rather than an arbitrary challenge given to candidates for review) then you should absolutely walk.
SkyPuncher 4y ago
> When you hire a Michelin star chef do you make them make you a four course meal to prove they can cook? > Do you make a surgeon do four hour surgery? These are both poor examples. These are both credentialed examples. Both have already demonstrated their skill based on the credentials they hold. Software development is not a credentialed field. Titles vary wildly - especially at startups where titles inflate.
- ls15 4y ago
  Shouldn't a CS degree from a reputable university then just replace all the screening that is made for people without relevant degrees?
  - hackyhacky 4y ago
    As someone who teaches CS at a reputable university, I can state with certainty that we graduate a lot of students who have no clue how to code. As someone who used to do hiring for a small company, I can state that a lot of people who have degrees have no clue how to code. Until our field gets the equivalent of a bar exam or NBME, each employer has to evaluate candidates on their own.
    - ls15 4y ago
      CS != coding, but CS combined with coding practice is an excellent basis. Now, how many of those graduates that managed to work in a software development job afterwards can still not code a couple of years later?
      - hackyhacky 4y ago
        I never claimed that CS == coding, nor did I claim that CS graduates can't learn to code. All that I said is that a CS degree alone is not a sufficient substitute for screening, in counter to the grandparent comment.
      - gus75 4y ago
        I did quite a bit of recruiting for a software team in a large company. I can tell you that years of experience do not guarantee good quality code.
grepfru_it 4y ago
Actors must audition before they are chosen for a role. Sometimes several times..
- electrondood 4y ago
  Yeah, these are called technical interviews, and they usually take an entire day. I spend at least a two weeks studying for these before every job search. If I have 4 jobs in my pipeline that assign me 4 hours of homework each, that's 16 hours of bullshit I have to slog through in addition to my study time, prep work, and a solid week or two of whiteboarding. This doesn't include the recruiter's technical trivia screen and the codeshare screen. No thanks.
  - grepfru_it 4y ago
    If no thanks then why complain about 4 hours each? You are going to pick and choose the interviews you are going to do so what exactly is the problem if you say no any or all of them?
    - corrral 4y ago
      > Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
underdeserver 4y ago
Who would hire a chef without trying their food? And a surgeon needs accreditation from the state.

anon291 4y ago

Yeah I don't do these. I only do on-sites if I have a clear desire to work for the company. At the place I'm working at now, I did not do an onsite. At the place I was at previously, it was clear they were giving me an offer before I did the onsite, since the onsite was basically a 'get-to-know-you' thing. That's fine. On-sites serve a purpose of making sure you're not making a terrible decision. I actually made the decision this time to do two on-sites which is rare. This was because I had colleagues from previous positions at both locations and I honestly wanted to get a good sense. However, one company was just really weird, so I learned that at the on-site. even though they wanted me... I said no. So in terms of preventing mistakes, on-sites are great. But, I'm not doing a 4 hour interview before any offer is made, or a clear indication of interest.