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“When It Rains, It Pours”: The Morton Salt Girl
- MBCook 4y agoI had no idea the idiom came from the tagline. I always thought it was the other way around.
- cauthon 4y agoIt is the other way around, the article is wrong. From at least 1726: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift/Volume_17/It_Cannot_Rain_But_It_Pours https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonatha...
- simonsarris 4y agoand definitely considered a common saying in an several 1800s books according to Google ngram. eg: > "Misfortunes never come alone," is an old and trite saying, and "when it rains it pours" is another phrase like unto it https://www.google.com/search?q=%22when%20it%20rains%20it%20pours%22&tbm=bks&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1800,cd_max:1891&lr=lang_en https://www.google.com/search?q=%22when%20it%20rains%20it%20...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- MLR 4y agoThis seems to be pseudo-history at best, the saying is centuries old in some form or another - Wiktionary has "it never rains, but it pours" at 1772, and even then it was being given as a trite saying. Maybe it popularised the modern wording, but the story in the article isn't going for that angle at all.
- djur 4y agoEven without the historical evidence, the slogan seems an unlikely coinage without the existing idiom (surely "when it rains, Morton pours" would be more likely), and I don't know how you'd get from the marketing slogan to an idiom about misfortune. It's a shame. Stories like this are fascinating when they turn out to be true. Like how "bucket list" entered the American vernacular so quickly and thoroughly that there are many people who believe the movie was named after a preexisting common phrase.
- sweetbacon 4y agore: "bucket list" well I've learned something interesting today. I was solidly in the latter camp.
- smegsicle 4y agoit certainly seemed like the culture was ready for a catchy name for the concept, and even if it indeed hadn't been independently coined previously, people were ready to accept it nowadays though we've got zuckerberg pretending like he invented the term 'metaverse'
- PopAlongKid 4y ago> a preexisting common phrase You mean like, "kick the bucket"?
- djur 4y agoNo, I mean "bucket list". A lot of people think that it was part of the vernacular before the movie came out, but it wasn't.
- JacobAldridge 4y agoAnd quite a different interpretation. My grandmother was the idiom queen (by the time the dementia really took hold, she was communicating in trite phrases just like 'kids these days' communicate in memes) and this was one of her favourites. The meaning of the saying is fairly straightforward - "pours" being more voluminous than "rains", it's like saying "it never trickles but it floods". Related of course to the London bus, where you wait for ages and then 3 show up at once. Morton's seems to take the sentiment, but change the meaning - it rains AND it pours, because the "it" changes between those two verbs. A clever play on words to change the meaning of and old idiom - maybe similar to Tesco's "Every Little Helps" that's catchy because it's similar and yet different - but as you say, definitely not the origin of the trite saying about misfortune or luck.
- MBCook 4y agoSure enough here is a citation I was able find easily from 1860. I should have known better. Can’t trust even simple things these days. https://books.google.com/books?id=V2AEAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA4-PA169&dq=%22when+it+rains+it+pours%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkwYi7tL34AhVklWoFHZf2Br8QuwV6BAgFEAc#v=onepage&q=%22when%20it%20rains%20it%20pours%22&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=V2AEAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA4-PA169&...
- sumy23 4y agoThat usage doesn’t seem idiomatic. Like it’s literally saying the rain in this area is heavy.
- MBCook 4y agoTrue. But I just chose an early one. There were others. Seems to have been a phrase even if not idiomatic yet.
- coldpie 4y ago> Can’t trust even simple things these days. "These days," as opposed to that glorious time in the past when you could trust anything some random stranger said to you.
- dredmorbius 4y agoAs others have noted, the published evidence refutes that claim. Google's Ngram Viewer seems to trace the phrase to the 1850s, though others have turned up earlier references: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=when+it+rains+it+pours&year_start=1600&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=10# https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=when+it+rains+... And dialing in more on the period 1800 -- 1950: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=when+it+rains+it+pours&year_start=1800&year_end=1950&corpus=15&smoothing=4&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cwhen%20it%20rains%20it%20pours%3B%2Cc0#t1%3B%2Cwhen%20it%20rains%20it%20pours%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=when+it+rains+... Note that OCR and other errors may produce spurious hits or date references, though the record here seems pretty clear.
- danuker 4y agoIncidentally, this successful ad might have killed a lot of people. https://www.healthdata.org/results/gbd_summaries/2019/diet-high-in-sodium-level-3-risk https://www.healthdata.org/results/gbd_summaries/2019/diet-h...
- b112 4y agoYou'll die without enough salt, and prior to modern prepackaged food, and over salty snacks, and over salted restaruant food, you needed salt in your diet. Badly! If you want to eat healthy, and decide to cook all your own food, be prepared to use more salt. You'll need it compared to that prepackaged food. Especially in the summer, when you sweat more. Failure to do so may leave you craving salty snacks, or lacking in energy. So food in 1911 needed salt for your good health!
- ghaff 4y agoAnd iodine to at least some degree. Although probably using iodized salt is not a particular issue in developed countries.
- danuker 4y agoI agree with you that salt is necessary. But currently, much more people suffer because of too much salt rather than too little. My point is to watch one's salt intake. The relative mortality risk from 5g of sodium per day is 1.0 to 1.1 (most likely a 5% shorter lifespan).
- refurb 4y agoMost people handle excess salt just fine. Your kidneys Will excrete any excess. Small groups have blood pressure that is sodium sensitive and people with kidney disease have trouble too. But high salt diets aren’t in and of themselves a problem.
- danuker 4y ago> But high salt diets aren’t in and of themselves a problem. You are directly contradicting my link: > In 2019, a diet high in sodium was responsible for 44·9 million (95% UI 13·0–94·7) DALYs and 1·89 million (0·477–4·19) deaths. It was the leading dietary risk factor for attributable DALYs. https://www.healthdata.org/results/gbd_summaries/2019/diet-high-in-sodium-level-3-risk https://www.healthdata.org/results/gbd_summaries/2019/diet-h... Please provide data to back up your statements.
- iseanstevens 4y agoIt’s nice to read about a truly improved product, which led to packaging innovation, and such a simple logo and slogan.
- allenu 4y agoI’m impressed all of the pieces work together so well. I always wondered about both the girl and the slogan. This is the kind of thing they would’ve fictionalized in Mad Men.
- neverartful 4y agoWhen I was a kid it was fairly common to see salt shakers with grains of uncooked rice in them. This was to keep the salt from sticking together in a humid environment.
- b112 4y agoYup, and I find I need rice in ultra humid environments still.
- bredren 4y agoThey used to have this in the space needle restaurant. It was the first place I saw it when I was a kid.
- piva00 4y agoYup, very common in Brazil in general. It's not infallible though, on very humid places such as coastal cities you will still get salt clumping with rice in it, usually on the sieve of the shaker...
- ClimaxGravely 4y agoI still do today but totally by force of habit. It's just something we always did when growing up.
- Fatnino 4y agoDoes the rice absorb the moisture more than the salt does? Or is it just there to bounce around and break up the clumps of damp salt?
- CSSer 4y agoI think yes to the first question. Rice is extremely hygroscopic. In a fairly famous novel, Mr. Midshipman Hornblower, there’s even an instance of a wooden ship with a cargo hold filled with rice breaking up and sinking at sea because of a small leak the crew was unable to detect in time. I’m unable to find a direct source on this, but it’s claimed this is not just a story but actually happened in real life too. The author, C.S. Forester, used stories he had heard and read about in the Navy Gazette to form the basis for his historical fiction novel.
- Laforet 4y agoFree flowing table salt was first invented in the UK by adding up to 3% phosphate salts with sodium chloride. Legend has it that a Scottish pharmacist tried to fortify the condiment for his daughter by blending calcium phosphate with rock salt and serendipitously discovered it's anti caking properties. A company named Cerebos was formed in 1894 to mass produce the salt. To market the novel product, they went with the image of a boy chasing a bird whilst trying to pour salt on it with the tagline "See how it runs", referring to the old wives tale that one can paralyse a bird by putting salt on its tail. http://cosgb.blogspot.com/2010/09/cerebos-ltd.html http://cosgb.blogspot.com/2010/09/cerebos-ltd.html The brand survives to this day and remains popular in the commonwealth countries, although the original phosphate based formulation is no longer used due to both cost and potential health effects.
- TheSpiceIsLife 4y agoFor any Australian, New Zealand, Asia Pacific, readers, Kraft Heinz owns Cerebos Foods who make the ever popular, and equally free-flowing Gravox. https://www.gravox.com.au/about/ https://www.gravox.com.au/about/
- fifteenforty 4y agoGravox is the best. I wish I could find it in San Francisco.
- TheSpiceIsLife 4y agoDo you think an Australian Emporium might do okay in SF? Australian in that context could include a very wide range of Greek, Italian, Croatian, and Lebanese, goodies to pad out a small goods shop with more traditional Australian fare.
- bombcar 4y agoIt could probably be a successful add-on to an already existing "world" store of some sort, the kind you find in Little Italy or Chinatown. It might take some time to grow but it would eventually be known to those who wanted it. As a note - if you're ever looking for a foreign product, you can write the US distributor (or the main headquarters if there doesn't seem to be one) asking if there are any retailers in your area; there often are but they can be small and hard to find (no web inventory, etc).
- Linda703 4y ago[dead]
- unnouinceput 4y agoI like the one from 1968 more than the one from 2014, should've let it unchanged
- duxup 4y agoThe icons that stick always fascinate me. They’re beautiful and enduring. Salt girl, recycling logo, Public Broadcasting Service logo.
- xbar 4y agoI was born about 1970 and spent the next 11 years of my life learning to bake with my mom. 1 teaspoon from the 1968 girl, who seemed so very much my peer, was all my chocolate chip cookies needed.
- Waterluvian 4y agoI’m not one for marketing but wow that’s a good slogan. My other favourite is “It takes a licking and keeps on ticking.”
- ashton314 4y agoSeveral years ago they ran all their old logos on their salt containers with a little story about the logo. It was really fun to see! For some reason my parents needed a bunch of salt (lots of cooking, saline rinses too if I remember right) so I got to see two or three different iterations on the design.
- sbf501 4y agoWhew, I was worried I was promulgating another myth. Finally got one right!
- DoreenMichele 4y agoThe inaccuracies aside (about them inventing the phrase whole cloth), it's a nice piece about advertising. Anecdotally, I tend to use salt without the anti caking additives because I have a salt wasting condition, so I'm on a doctor prescribed high salt diet. When I've suggested sea salt to others with my condition, they have just lost their minds that it clumps and looks funny. Historically, that was the norm for salt. It seems like a weird thing to be so hung up on, given the seriousness of the condition.
- Swizec 4y agoHaving grown up on a sea salt diet near the Mediterranean – put some rice grains in your salt shaker and other containers. It draws moisture and prevents clumping (to an extent). And hey if it does clump just bang it hard on the table.
- chiph 4y agoIn the Southern US that has been the practice for a long time (also a hot & humid environment!). The rice grains are too large to pass through the holes in the shaker but will sometimes clog them, so you have to shake a bit harder.
- renox 4y agoHow about just using a 'moulin a sel' to avoid the clumping?
- rmason 4y agoThis brought a smile, my father was a sales manager for Morton Salt. Growing up our family was flooded with gear featuring that little girl and her umbrella. As a kid I wanted no part of the brand merchandise. The single item that I used was a metal wastebasket my Dad gave me for my dorm room. Still have it decades later, it's a reminder of my family's history. Morton Salt was a great employer until it wasn't. A young president decided to fire all the employees over 55. He reasoned they were too expensive and it would make room for younger employees that cost less and it would increase earnings. Raising the stock price would increase his compensation. The young president was gone in a year after the stock collapsed. The company has been sold four or five times since and has gone from the industry leader to an also ran. My Dad was a few years away from retirement but serendipity reigned and he got another job and did OK.
- anchochilis 4y agoAbout what year did this take place? It sounds like the employees would have had a solid basis for an age discrimination lawsuit.
- rmason 4y agoIt was in the mid-seventies. Some employees did sue, it took ten years and they didn't receive much. The lawyer did OK though ;<(. My father chose not to participate. The Congress passed an age discrimination law in 1967 but at the last minute it was significantly weakened by lobbyists. The law was updated in 1986 and that's when the gates opened to people suing and getting sizeable awards.
- gaws 4y ago> A young president decided to fire all the employees over 55. He reasoned they were too expensive and it would make room for younger employees that cost less and it would increase earnings. Raising the stock price would increase his compensation. History loves to repeat itself.
- sam_goody 4y agoThe double entendre is what made it so catchy. The saying was first [1] and the company is now trying to rewrite history. Another fun fact: Morton (tehnically, Morton Norwich) made other chemicals as well, including rocket fuel. The fuels were marked up so highly, that - together with a company called Thiokol - they decided they could make and fly the whole rocket engine cheaper than NASA could. Their first attempt at rocket building was the Challenger, which blew up less than two minutes after launch, and took with it 7 people, and the Morton-Thiokol partnership. [1]: From 1892, called an "old saying": https://books.google.co.il/books?id=gwFCAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA733&dq=%22when+it+rains+it+pours%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAm9jXlL74AhV_RfEDHUeRC4YQ6AF6BAgKEAI#v=onepage&q=%22when%20it%20rains%20it%20pours%22&f=false https://books.google.co.il/books?id=gwFCAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA733&dq...
- dragonwriter 4y ago> Morton (tehnically, Morton Norwich) made other chemicals as well, including rocket fuel. The fuels were marked up so highly, that - together with a company called Thiokol - they decided they could make and fly the whole rocket engine cheaper than NASA could. That's...not really true. Thiokol and Morton Norwich merged in 1982; Morton-Thiokol did a lot, wasn't centered on a proposal to “make and fly the whole rocket engine cheaper than NASA could”, and, in fact, the rocket engine business they had after the merger was the same one Thiokol had before the merger, just with the new entity’s name. Thiokol had been a contractor on the shuttle program since the 1970s. > Their first attempt at rocket building was the Challenger, which blew up less than two minutes after launch No, it wasn't. Thiokol was the contractor for the SRB motor segments from well before the merger, and Thiokol and then Morton-Thiokol made the motor segments for the SRBs for all of the launches before the 1986 Challenger disaster (and all of them after, though some under different names, after Thiokol was purchased.) > and the Morton-Thiokol partnership. Morton-Thiokol wasn't a partnership, but it's true that most of the chemical business was spun out as Morton in 1989, with the propulsion business staying as Thiokol. This wasn't really an unwinding of the merger; Thiokol had a substantial chemic business before the merger. It was a novel split of the combined business that happened to use the branding from the old components because it was available.
- 4y ago
- ricardobeat 4y ago> Prior to the early 1900s I remember our salt shakers clumping when I was a kid in the 1990s back in Brazil. We used to put rice grains in it to capture moisture. If you buy a common 1kg salt bag I bet it still gets wet, no idea why the additives didn’t take hold.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jhoechtl 4y agoInteresting to see some societal changes reflected in the ad, for one the shortening of the skirt, which goes in hand with the girl getting older. The other change is the style of the umbrella which in its first iteration had for today's taste a rather strange looking handle.
- DavidPiper 4y agoSo... This is the real salt bae?
- infinet 4y agoI learned non caking agent when growing crystal. The non-iodized salt from grocery store grow into strange looking white and cubioid shape crystals. That salt has yellow prussiate of soda in it.
- mikestew 4y agoThat logo has mystified me since childhood. Why is the little girl carrying a container of salt in the rain? Was she sent to purchase it? Could the purchase not wait until better weather? Why is the container disproportionately huge? Or is she only six inches tall? And finally, so the container leaks salt if at any angle but upright? Why does Morton refuse to put better lids on their products?
- yellowapple 4y agoI always figured it was about salting roads and sidewalks for better traction and to keep them from icing up. Can't say I've seen table salt used that way, though.