4 ms·

How long do you think it takes to recoup an extra half million dollars in energy savings?

epistasis 4y ago
Less than the term of the typical mortgage, i.e. these codes are only adopted when it lowers the cost of housing. With your $500k up front costs, how many units are you spreading that over?
renewiltord 4y ago
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- peter422 4y ago
  This is a straw man to begin with because the building codes are not the issue… the permitting apparatus is. However, your analysis is simplistic and assumes: 1. The house uses no natural gas (most do) 2. The cost of electricity never goes up (it will in the short term at least) 3. CO2 emissions from wasted energy have no cost (they do) 4. Building energy efficient buildings is way more expensive than the alternatives for new construction (it isn’t)
  - renewiltord 4y ago
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    - _benedict 4y ago
      If the average electricity bill includes houses that use gas for heating, then the electricity bill is grossly inaccurate for houses without gas heating (unless we are discussing an area that requires minimal heating demand)
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- devonbleak 4y ago
  Just ordered new replacement windows from my house. Granted we picked out the most expensive line of windows for aesthetic reasons but the marginal increase for the CA mandated coating was ~5% of the overall cost of the windows. Do I expect to save the entire $22k cost of the windows on my energy bills any time soon? No I do not. Do I expect to save the ~$1500 that I spent on the coating? Sure I'll probably get ROI in 5-10 years with energy bills averaging ~$300/mo (no solar and it's 100 degrees outside today).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - bpodgursky 4y ago
    It sounds like the $22k energy saving cost would not have been a meaningful contribution to a $1mm/unit cost of construction then.
    - SnowHill9902 4y ago
      Everything counts.
- epistasis 4y ago
  Weird to look up one number, then fabricate $100k out of nowhere to compare it too. Plus, you are looking only at the energy bill, not the cost of energy saved... The top comment in this thread states that 1.7% of the upfront cost of the apartment, $17,000, is for energy efficiency improvements. In fact, the codes that mandate energy efficiency improvements take a detailed cost analysis into account, and only mandate cost-saving energy efficiency improvements.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
babypuncher 4y ago
Where are you getting the idea that half the cost of constructing an apartment is a result of energy efficiency requirements?
- mlyle 4y ago
  He's implying that if the energy efficiency is a primary cost driver -- e.g. worth even discussing in the context of affordable housing -- then it would take a long time to break even fiscally. Assuming it's 50% is just a little bit of hyperbole.
  - asimpletune 4y ago
    I think they were just saying some of these regulations are not just good but necessary

Less than the term of the typical mortgage, i.e. these codes are only adopted when it lowers the cost of housing. With your $500k up front costs, how many units are you spreading that over?

renewiltord 4y ago

peter422 4y ago
This is a straw man to begin with because the building codes are not the issue… the permitting apparatus is. However, your analysis is simplistic and assumes: 1. The house uses no natural gas (most do) 2. The cost of electricity never goes up (it will in the short term at least) 3. CO2 emissions from wasted energy have no cost (they do) 4. Building energy efficient buildings is way more expensive than the alternatives for new construction (it isn’t)
- renewiltord 4y ago
  -
  - _benedict 4y ago
    If the average electricity bill includes houses that use gas for heating, then the electricity bill is grossly inaccurate for houses without gas heating (unless we are discussing an area that requires minimal heating demand)
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
devonbleak 4y ago
Just ordered new replacement windows from my house. Granted we picked out the most expensive line of windows for aesthetic reasons but the marginal increase for the CA mandated coating was ~5% of the overall cost of the windows. Do I expect to save the entire $22k cost of the windows on my energy bills any time soon? No I do not. Do I expect to save the ~$1500 that I spent on the coating? Sure I'll probably get ROI in 5-10 years with energy bills averaging ~$300/mo (no solar and it's 100 degrees outside today).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bpodgursky 4y ago
  It sounds like the $22k energy saving cost would not have been a meaningful contribution to a $1mm/unit cost of construction then.
  - SnowHill9902 4y ago
    Everything counts.
epistasis 4y ago
Weird to look up one number, then fabricate $100k out of nowhere to compare it too. Plus, you are looking only at the energy bill, not the cost of energy saved... The top comment in this thread states that 1.7% of the upfront cost of the apartment, $17,000, is for energy efficiency improvements. In fact, the codes that mandate energy efficiency improvements take a detailed cost analysis into account, and only mandate cost-saving energy efficiency improvements.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

babypuncher 4y ago

Where are you getting the idea that half the cost of constructing an apartment is a result of energy efficiency requirements?

mlyle 4y ago
He's implying that if the energy efficiency is a primary cost driver -- e.g. worth even discussing in the context of affordable housing -- then it would take a long time to break even fiscally. Assuming it's 50% is just a little bit of hyperbole.
- asimpletune 4y ago
  I think they were just saying some of these regulations are not just good but necessary