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> I do think they've made significant improvements with "new Jira" (I think they call them team-managed projects now). I feel totally the opposite. If you've

> I do think they've made significant improvements with "new Jira" (I think they call them team-managed projects now). I feel totally the opposite. If you've ever had to administer Jira at a large company than team-managed projects are the bane of your existence. If you think, there's even a small chance that your company will grow to 300+ engineers any time in the next several years then do yourself a favor and turn off team managed projects entirely or else you'll face a painful migration away from them. Though I will generally defend Jira as a product for many of the reasons you said.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
I upvoted your comment because I believe it's a perfect example of what I was trying to point out: it is impossible to please everyone with a company-wide project management tool, but the fact remains that it is a necessity. For all the people bitching about how Jira makes it hard to work like they want to work, their are folks like you who will complain that Jira makes it to easy to get around a company-wide standard. To emphasize, I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, I'm just saying it's impossible to build a project management tool where large subsets of people won't complain about the exact same set of features that another subset of stakeholders likes.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  > but the fact remains that it is a necessity I am interested on why people think that. It doesn't look like a necessity to me. Ok, in a medium company, with dozens or maybe a hundred or two people, centralizing all the workflow is probably cheaper and more productive than siloing teams. But in a large company the inverse can very easily be true.
thfuran 4y ago
What fails to scale?
- halostatue 4y ago
  We added a team-managed project a while back, and built a really good workflow around it that satisfied the needs of everyone who works in that project. We can’t easily replicate that workflow anywhere else. This isn’t the end of the world, but I should be able to create a new team-managed project based on another team-managed project and then modify its workflow separately. So far, I can’t figure out how to do that. I’d love to take the team-managed workflow and promote it to a company-managed workflow now that we’ve experimented with it. So far, I can’t figure out how to do that. Don’t get me wrong, I really hate JIRA. I’ve written my own bug tracking system. I’ve tried lots of other tracking systems. JIRA is wrong on so many levels, but eventually you hit something in one of the other tools that you cannot address with those tools, but is possible (but painful to configure, and it might cost you extra money) in JIRA. The only other tracking system I really like is GitHub issues, but it also has problems and limitations. And then you have things on GitHub that actively make things much worse (the autoclose bots; forms like the ones that Vue puts up, etc.). I’ve never seen any organization need the level of complexity that they end up using in JIRA (especially the access permissions, which consistently get borked sideways), but most organizations eventually need something better than Bugzilla, Trac, or Github Issues. The other difficulty is that switching bug tracking systems is tough. I want to really try Tara, or ClickUp, or Monday or a few different ones, but adding another tool is literally adding another tool. This is the same reason we’re using Confluence, even though it’s objectively the worst wiki in existence. I hate Atlassian products with a passion. There’s nothing better, and the cost of switching is too high.
lewispollard 4y ago
Yeah. My employer has company managed projects on by default, and there are several features which still haven't been re-implemented from OG team-managed Jira, particularly around workflow automation, that have tickets from 4 years ago saying "we're looking into implementing this in the next year!"

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

I upvoted your comment because I believe it's a perfect example of what I was trying to point out: it is impossible to please everyone with a company-wide project management tool, but the fact remains that it is a necessity. For all the people bitching about how Jira makes it hard to work like they want to work, their are folks like you who will complain that Jira makes it to easy to get around a company-wide standard. To emphasize, I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, I'm just saying it's impossible to build a project management tool where large subsets of people won't complain about the exact same set of features that another subset of stakeholders likes.

marcosdumay 4y ago
> but the fact remains that it is a necessity I am interested on why people think that. It doesn't look like a necessity to me. Ok, in a medium company, with dozens or maybe a hundred or two people, centralizing all the workflow is probably cheaper and more productive than siloing teams. But in a large company the inverse can very easily be true.

thfuran 4y ago

What fails to scale?

halostatue 4y ago
We added a team-managed project a while back, and built a really good workflow around it that satisfied the needs of everyone who works in that project. We can’t easily replicate that workflow anywhere else. This isn’t the end of the world, but I should be able to create a new team-managed project based on another team-managed project and then modify its workflow separately. So far, I can’t figure out how to do that. I’d love to take the team-managed workflow and promote it to a company-managed workflow now that we’ve experimented with it. So far, I can’t figure out how to do that. Don’t get me wrong, I really hate JIRA. I’ve written my own bug tracking system. I’ve tried lots of other tracking systems. JIRA is wrong on so many levels, but eventually you hit something in one of the other tools that you cannot address with those tools, but is possible (but painful to configure, and it might cost you extra money) in JIRA. The only other tracking system I really like is GitHub issues, but it also has problems and limitations. And then you have things on GitHub that actively make things much worse (the autoclose bots; forms like the ones that Vue puts up, etc.). I’ve never seen any organization need the level of complexity that they end up using in JIRA (especially the access permissions, which consistently get borked sideways), but most organizations eventually need something better than Bugzilla, Trac, or Github Issues. The other difficulty is that switching bug tracking systems is tough. I want to really try Tara, or ClickUp, or Monday or a few different ones, but adding another tool is literally adding another tool. This is the same reason we’re using Confluence, even though it’s objectively the worst wiki in existence. I hate Atlassian products with a passion. There’s nothing better, and the cost of switching is too high.

lewispollard 4y ago

Yeah. My employer has company managed projects on by default, and there are several features which still haven't been re-implemented from OG team-managed Jira, particularly around workflow automation, that have tickets from 4 years ago saying "we're looking into implementing this in the next year!"