22 ms·

It will be interesting if LMG can pull off what Linus is aiming for with the massive investment in a laboratory environment. There are huge parts of the tech ma

by mrkwse 4y ago

It will be interesting if LMG can pull off what Linus is aiming for with the massive investment in a laboratory environment. There are huge parts of the tech market where the most critical reviewing you can find is anecdotal accounts of if the reviewer liked a product or not (or the more clinical reviews are drowned out by the anecdotal noise).

kitsunesoba 4y ago
I'm hopeful for LMG's lab too. It's still a bit of a gamble, but from the sound of it the company is set up such that they can review products in an objective, data-backed way and tank any blowback from manufacturers that occurs as a result. It's much more focused on enthusiast computer hardware, but Gamers Nexus[0] is doing good things in this space too. Their style is much more dry and data-dense than LMG's though, which isn't everybody's cup of tea. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChIs72whgZI9w6d6FhwGGHA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChIs72whgZI9w6d6FhwGGHA
- hansword 4y ago
  I want to second the gamers nexus recommendation here. (To be frank, I think LMG labs is very much inspired by what GN has been doing over the last year or two.)
  - danudey 4y ago
    I go with LTT if I want to know if a laptop is good to use or not. I go with Gamer's Nexus if I want to know if a GPU used the wrong kind of thermal interface for their VRMs and what effect that has on core clocks second by second, backed by rigorous scientific benchmarks producing huge amounts of data, summarized in highly detailed graphs.
    - sixothree 4y ago
      My problem with LTT is finding a _work_ laptop using their recommendations. I don't need gaming graphics and I cannot work on a 13" screen.
  - omega3 4y ago
    On a tangential note, I prefer GN for their understated delivery and heavy use of data and charts. On some channels the emphasis is clearly more on the -tainment part of infotainment. The default tech video is is now produced with the same template: little jokes between presenters, background history, open ended questions, Netflix type camera shots on the couch, post processing, visual effects etc. With GN at least it's easy to FF to see a graph and listen to conclusions. Other channels require me to be emotionally invested in the content and delivey method and it gets very tiring after a while.
- Brakenshire 4y ago
  https://www.notebookcheck.net/ https://www.notebookcheck.net/ also seems to do a lot of their own testing.
  - srazzaque 4y ago
    Second this. Whenever I'm looking up a review for a notebook, my default search term is "<model> notebookcheck" to see if they've done a review. The visual size comparison tool is also extremely handy for comparing something you're about to buy, with something you already have access to. It gives you a much better sense of how much bigger/smaller this thing is.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Yeah they're great and in-depth and without the stupid showmanship of Linus. Just the info without the hot air :) Always the site I go for, wish they did more types of products. For screens I use displaycheck.
    - sixothree 4y ago
      Got a link to DisplayCheck? I'm not finding what I think should be correct.
      - GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Sorry I remembered it wrong. It was DisplayMate, not DisplayCheck. https://www.displaymate.com/mobile.html#Latest https://www.displaymate.com/mobile.html#Latest Their display "shootouts" are unparallelled in my opinion. For example they look at colour accuracy not only at high brightness but also at really low brightness, where displays often 'cheat' by reducing the contrast when they reach the limit of their backlight dimming. Which significantly impacts colour fidelity. They also do many other types besides mobile displays, I just linked to that as an example. PS: Sorry for calling out Linux for his showmanship but I just dislike this generation of Youtube "celebrity" that appeals to the mainstream over getting out of the way of high quality content. The only one I really have time for is Dave from EEVblog. Despite being quite the showman he really has the brains and doesn't hold back on technical info.
- ajolly 4y ago
  For detailed tech reviews with lots of data of really been enjoying Igor'slab from Germany lately
- girvo 4y ago
  While they don’t focus on the same equipment, Hardware Unboxed scratches that data-dense itch for monitors, processors and other components.
- biggc 4y ago
  I appreciate the depth of gamer’s nexus, but their videos are like watching someone read an Anandtech breakdown.
  - geerlingguy 4y ago
    Heh, at least they give chapter markers so you can glance at the benchmarks you want then skip to their conclusions.
    - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
      This is such a welcome feature! It makes going to videos without these pretty painful.
- hirvi74 4y ago
  There is no denying that "Linus (Torvalds) Tech Tips" would not be extremely entertaining though. I would love to see him just go off on everything. :)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - bmn__ 4y ago
    Linus S on Linus T: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kua9cY8q_EI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kua9cY8q_EI
  - djmips 4y ago
    Code review: Suggestion make logic positive. "Linus (Torvalds) Tech Tips" would be extremely entertaining" :)
- humaniania 4y ago
  Gamers Nexus is better than Linus in every way that matters.
  - newsclues 4y ago
    Entertainment matters for about 10 million subscribers
- branko_d 4y ago
  I think rtings.com are doing a good job on monitors.
wincy 4y ago
I’m curious about this too. He did a breakdown of how much money they get from ads and it’s not much considering how many employees they have. They have a lot of sponsorships and selling swag but I’m just not sure what their maximum size is as just another YouTube channel, even one with lots of revenue streams.
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  Honestly, I think Linus has reached the point where even if his endeavour fails his family will be OK. Plus, he'd get to spend more time with them.
  - fnimick 4y ago
    Dude literally has a brand new house where he wrote off all the renovation as business expense as he was filming it for his channel. He's totally fine.
    - compsciphd 4y ago
      I dont think he wrote off the renovations, as that would be problematic from a tax perspective. what he probably does is charge LMG what would be considered a reasonable rate to film on at his home and he makes money back that way. i.e. this came up when he was talking about the wall tv. he couldn't just bill it to lmb and store it at home, he would have to pay for it out of pocket and then charge LMG for every time they used it.
unwind 4y ago
Just in case not everyone are in the loop, LMG is Linus Media Group [1] which is the publishing agency behind the popular YouTube channel "Linus Tech Tips" [2]. It is a different Linus, not Torvalds. :) [1]: https://linusmediagroup.com/ https://linusmediagroup.com/ [2]: https://www.youtube.com/c/LinusTechTips https://www.youtube.com/c/LinusTechTips
- Tagbert 4y ago
  Thank you. I had wondered about that.
McAtNite 4y ago
It will be nice if they do come up with an experiment based approach to reviews. Personally I really enjoy Gamer Nexus since they already do this. Their coverage of the Nvidia cooler design change was really interesting to watch, and they went into depth on their testing methodology with both its strengths and weaknesses. Their channel really convinced me to take a more critical look at other “reviews” and how they conduct them with either lazily held thermal camera or smoke machines.
- tapland 4y ago
  And GN has someine making graphs who knows how to make them readable. In LMG videos the graphs could be really crazy, though I haven't watched them for a while now.
cush 4y ago
Phones and anything Apple are reviewed to oblivion. There are some incredible consumer product review YouTube channels out there too.. The Best one imo is project farm (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vO3UX4oEnZI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vO3UX4oEnZI). If you're into headphones, Crinacle's site/YT are on a completely different level than any other review site I really hope LMG does videos in these styles with their lab
- manchmalscott 4y ago
  I believe their intention with the lab is to focus more on written articles instead of video content? He’s complained on his podcast (in the context of talking about the lab) about the decrease in quality print journalism in the tech space.
- jterrys 4y ago
  Project Farm is pretty great. Got great advice for water filters, car wax, and drills There really are brands out there that charge 200% more for a shittier product to just get carried by brand recognition alone.
  - geerlingguy 4y ago
    And I love the test rigs PF devises. Some really clever ones like the oil wear tester in his most recent review.
- Smoosh 4y ago
  I would also recommend The Torque Test Channel as very similar in approach to Project Farm. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZem9C5rWjSb0B8tV3k2EZg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZem9C5rWjSb0B8tV3k2EZg
- dymax78 4y ago
  > If you're into headphones, Crinacle's site/YT are on a completely different level than any other review site. Audio Science Review was posting deep-dive technical reviews of amps, dacs, daps, iems, and headphones, years before crinacle made a post on headfi, and I say that as a member of the latter since ‘02. Many audio engineers and enthusiasts have attempted to remove the “reality distortion field” that permeates the prominent audiophile communities (headfi, audiogon) for years; ASR was one of the first to successfully to so (excluding sites dedicated to specialized equipment).
fartcannon 4y ago
Do you trust Linus, though? He often promotes himself as without bias, but he very clearly hates Apple (except the watch). He also loves things he already understands (anything Microsoft). He's got heavy duty fanboyitis. And he's clearly someone you can buy demonstrated by his flip flopping AMD/Intel/NVidia praise. I don't think he outwardly lies (at least not in a way that matters), or anything, but he's got pretty good soft selling skills which he definitely uses for evil/to make money. All LMG channels are great. But to me anyways, they're great because they're basically comedies.
- klausjensen 4y ago
  As somebody who has followed Linus for the last couple of years, I have to say I deeply disagree with your conclusion about hating apple and being for sale. He is not without flaws, but I think he is fair, balanced and very well-intentioned.
- fnimick 4y ago
  He's also vocally anti-union and actively tried to stop his employees from marketing themselves on personal social media (to stop them from building a following and then leaving, I'm guessing), so I refuse to watch any of his content or support his business in any way now.
  - dx034 4y ago
    Honestly, I would expect that from him as CEO. He only makes money off people watching the channel and subscription numbers are hugely important. Any efforts by employees to gain subscribers for their channels could dilute visitor numbers and subscribers to LMG. And obviously he doesn't want to create competition. In the end he's still a CEO and the others are his employees, not his friends. For that, he doesn't appear to be a terrible boss.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    Ah, that's pretty brutal. Thanks for the information I will keep that in mind. Seems less funny now. :/
  - 4y ago
donmcronald 4y ago
I think the review industry is so bad that even a mediocre quality endeavor could gain a ton of traction. The problem with the current tech review industry IMO is that it seems like the benchmarking and review part of it are treated like separate business units that need to be self sustaining / profitable. If you go by what LMG says on their podcast it sounds like the intent is for the lab to give them credibility and to act as an eyeball funnel, even if it needs to be subsidized by the entertainment side of the business. They've already shown that it's possible to make entertaining reviews if you keep the technical details light, so what they really need is hard data to back them up when they trash a product or get accused of being a corporate puppet. I personally find their videos to be entertaining, so if I'm looking to buy something and I know they evaluate tech products, I'll go to their labs site, look for entertainment videos that are produced from that data, and watch those videos. Then when I find something I think looks like a good fit for me I'll jump back to the labs side to look at the details. IMO the thing that might make LMG's effort different is that they're going into the space as a new participant. I think they realize the technical aspect of the lab is basically going to be content that needs to exist, but that no one reads (enough to be profitable) and their monetization is set up to accommodate that scenario. Compare that to traditional reviewers (and SEO spammers) that rely on page views for their revenue. The whole review industry is going to keep shifting towards video and the low cost, low value SEO spam sites are a big part of that. Any existing review businesses that aren't shifting towards a hybrid model like the LMG / Labs plan are going to get crushed IMO. Even if it's not LMG doing it, it's going to happen eventually.
thr0wawayf00 4y ago
The big problem with most YouTube review channels is that they're reliant on the vendors to provide them with free test units and other forms of access in order to grow their channels, and Linus is no exception. I actually came across a "why I'm shutting down my channel" video a while back in which the host showed emails from the company whose product she was reviewing (it was a drawing tablet or something like that) pressuring her to show the product in a more favorable light. It's so hard to tell who's actually objective in those review videos and who's censoring themselves at the request of a vendor.
- hoseja 4y ago
  LTT is certainly NOT dependent on free review units any more.
  - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
    Maybe not, but those channels still largely rely on regular access from these companies, which always presents a conflict of interest. I'm sure Linus does just fine in this regard, but the underlying problem still stands: if my Youtube channel's success is dependent on getting that kind of access to products early (as most top-tier reviewers do), I'm always going to have to decide between being as objective as possible and not biting the hand that feeds me. If you've watched a handful of review videos on YT at this point, there's a pretty good chance at least one of them was pre-approved by the vendor of the product being reviewed and you just don't know it.
yummypaint 4y ago
Gamersnexus has been similarly expanding their capabilities with very expensive fan testing equipment. They seem to be one of the better sources of consumer tech journalism these days.
throw10920 4y ago
What's the profit model for LMG? Ads? I'm not sure how long that will sustain even a smallish channel with no expenses, let alone electronic testing equipment and products to test.

by mrkwse 4y ago

kitsunesoba 4y ago

I'm hopeful for LMG's lab too. It's still a bit of a gamble, but from the sound of it the company is set up such that they can review products in an objective, data-backed way and tank any blowback from manufacturers that occurs as a result. It's much more focused on enthusiast computer hardware, but Gamers Nexus[0] is doing good things in this space too. Their style is much more dry and data-dense than LMG's though, which isn't everybody's cup of tea. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChIs72whgZI9w6d6FhwGGHA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChIs72whgZI9w6d6FhwGGHA

hansword 4y ago
I want to second the gamers nexus recommendation here. (To be frank, I think LMG labs is very much inspired by what GN has been doing over the last year or two.)
- danudey 4y ago
  I go with LTT if I want to know if a laptop is good to use or not. I go with Gamer's Nexus if I want to know if a GPU used the wrong kind of thermal interface for their VRMs and what effect that has on core clocks second by second, backed by rigorous scientific benchmarks producing huge amounts of data, summarized in highly detailed graphs.
  - sixothree 4y ago
    My problem with LTT is finding a _work_ laptop using their recommendations. I don't need gaming graphics and I cannot work on a 13" screen.
- omega3 4y ago
  On a tangential note, I prefer GN for their understated delivery and heavy use of data and charts. On some channels the emphasis is clearly more on the -tainment part of infotainment. The default tech video is is now produced with the same template: little jokes between presenters, background history, open ended questions, Netflix type camera shots on the couch, post processing, visual effects etc. With GN at least it's easy to FF to see a graph and listen to conclusions. Other channels require me to be emotionally invested in the content and delivey method and it gets very tiring after a while.
Brakenshire 4y ago
https://www.notebookcheck.net/ https://www.notebookcheck.net/ also seems to do a lot of their own testing.
- srazzaque 4y ago
  Second this. Whenever I'm looking up a review for a notebook, my default search term is "<model> notebookcheck" to see if they've done a review. The visual size comparison tool is also extremely handy for comparing something you're about to buy, with something you already have access to. It gives you a much better sense of how much bigger/smaller this thing is.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Yeah they're great and in-depth and without the stupid showmanship of Linus. Just the info without the hot air :) Always the site I go for, wish they did more types of products. For screens I use displaycheck.
  - sixothree 4y ago
    Got a link to DisplayCheck? I'm not finding what I think should be correct.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Sorry I remembered it wrong. It was DisplayMate, not DisplayCheck. https://www.displaymate.com/mobile.html#Latest https://www.displaymate.com/mobile.html#Latest Their display "shootouts" are unparallelled in my opinion. For example they look at colour accuracy not only at high brightness but also at really low brightness, where displays often 'cheat' by reducing the contrast when they reach the limit of their backlight dimming. Which significantly impacts colour fidelity. They also do many other types besides mobile displays, I just linked to that as an example. PS: Sorry for calling out Linux for his showmanship but I just dislike this generation of Youtube "celebrity" that appeals to the mainstream over getting out of the way of high quality content. The only one I really have time for is Dave from EEVblog. Despite being quite the showman he really has the brains and doesn't hold back on technical info.
ajolly 4y ago
For detailed tech reviews with lots of data of really been enjoying Igor'slab from Germany lately
girvo 4y ago
While they don’t focus on the same equipment, Hardware Unboxed scratches that data-dense itch for monitors, processors and other components.
biggc 4y ago
I appreciate the depth of gamer’s nexus, but their videos are like watching someone read an Anandtech breakdown.
- geerlingguy 4y ago
  Heh, at least they give chapter markers so you can glance at the benchmarks you want then skip to their conclusions.
  - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
    This is such a welcome feature! It makes going to videos without these pretty painful.
hirvi74 4y ago
There is no denying that "Linus (Torvalds) Tech Tips" would not be extremely entertaining though. I would love to see him just go off on everything. :)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bmn__ 4y ago
  Linus S on Linus T: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kua9cY8q_EI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kua9cY8q_EI
- djmips 4y ago
  Code review: Suggestion make logic positive. "Linus (Torvalds) Tech Tips" would be extremely entertaining" :)
humaniania 4y ago
Gamers Nexus is better than Linus in every way that matters.
- newsclues 4y ago
  Entertainment matters for about 10 million subscribers
branko_d 4y ago
I think rtings.com are doing a good job on monitors.

wincy 4y ago

I’m curious about this too. He did a breakdown of how much money they get from ads and it’s not much considering how many employees they have. They have a lot of sponsorships and selling swag but I’m just not sure what their maximum size is as just another YouTube channel, even one with lots of revenue streams.

AussieWog93 4y ago
Honestly, I think Linus has reached the point where even if his endeavour fails his family will be OK. Plus, he'd get to spend more time with them.
- fnimick 4y ago
  Dude literally has a brand new house where he wrote off all the renovation as business expense as he was filming it for his channel. He's totally fine.
  - compsciphd 4y ago
    I dont think he wrote off the renovations, as that would be problematic from a tax perspective. what he probably does is charge LMG what would be considered a reasonable rate to film on at his home and he makes money back that way. i.e. this came up when he was talking about the wall tv. he couldn't just bill it to lmb and store it at home, he would have to pay for it out of pocket and then charge LMG for every time they used it.

unwind 4y ago

Just in case not everyone are in the loop, LMG is Linus Media Group [1] which is the publishing agency behind the popular YouTube channel "Linus Tech Tips" [2]. It is a different Linus, not Torvalds. :) [1]: https://linusmediagroup.com/ https://linusmediagroup.com/ [2]: https://www.youtube.com/c/LinusTechTips https://www.youtube.com/c/LinusTechTips

Tagbert 4y ago
Thank you. I had wondered about that.

McAtNite 4y ago

It will be nice if they do come up with an experiment based approach to reviews. Personally I really enjoy Gamer Nexus since they already do this. Their coverage of the Nvidia cooler design change was really interesting to watch, and they went into depth on their testing methodology with both its strengths and weaknesses. Their channel really convinced me to take a more critical look at other “reviews” and how they conduct them with either lazily held thermal camera or smoke machines.

tapland 4y ago
And GN has someine making graphs who knows how to make them readable. In LMG videos the graphs could be really crazy, though I haven't watched them for a while now.

cush 4y ago

Phones and anything Apple are reviewed to oblivion. There are some incredible consumer product review YouTube channels out there too.. The Best one imo is project farm (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vO3UX4oEnZI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vO3UX4oEnZI). If you're into headphones, Crinacle's site/YT are on a completely different level than any other review site I really hope LMG does videos in these styles with their lab

manchmalscott 4y ago
I believe their intention with the lab is to focus more on written articles instead of video content? He’s complained on his podcast (in the context of talking about the lab) about the decrease in quality print journalism in the tech space.
jterrys 4y ago
Project Farm is pretty great. Got great advice for water filters, car wax, and drills There really are brands out there that charge 200% more for a shittier product to just get carried by brand recognition alone.
- geerlingguy 4y ago
  And I love the test rigs PF devises. Some really clever ones like the oil wear tester in his most recent review.
Smoosh 4y ago
I would also recommend The Torque Test Channel as very similar in approach to Project Farm. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZem9C5rWjSb0B8tV3k2EZg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZem9C5rWjSb0B8tV3k2EZg
dymax78 4y ago
> If you're into headphones, Crinacle's site/YT are on a completely different level than any other review site. Audio Science Review was posting deep-dive technical reviews of amps, dacs, daps, iems, and headphones, years before crinacle made a post on headfi, and I say that as a member of the latter since ‘02. Many audio engineers and enthusiasts have attempted to remove the “reality distortion field” that permeates the prominent audiophile communities (headfi, audiogon) for years; ASR was one of the first to successfully to so (excluding sites dedicated to specialized equipment).

fartcannon 4y ago

Do you trust Linus, though? He often promotes himself as without bias, but he very clearly hates Apple (except the watch). He also loves things he already understands (anything Microsoft). He's got heavy duty fanboyitis. And he's clearly someone you can buy demonstrated by his flip flopping AMD/Intel/NVidia praise. I don't think he outwardly lies (at least not in a way that matters), or anything, but he's got pretty good soft selling skills which he definitely uses for evil/to make money. All LMG channels are great. But to me anyways, they're great because they're basically comedies.

klausjensen 4y ago
As somebody who has followed Linus for the last couple of years, I have to say I deeply disagree with your conclusion about hating apple and being for sale. He is not without flaws, but I think he is fair, balanced and very well-intentioned.
fnimick 4y ago
He's also vocally anti-union and actively tried to stop his employees from marketing themselves on personal social media (to stop them from building a following and then leaving, I'm guessing), so I refuse to watch any of his content or support his business in any way now.
- dx034 4y ago
  Honestly, I would expect that from him as CEO. He only makes money off people watching the channel and subscription numbers are hugely important. Any efforts by employees to gain subscribers for their channels could dilute visitor numbers and subscribers to LMG. And obviously he doesn't want to create competition. In the end he's still a CEO and the others are his employees, not his friends. For that, he doesn't appear to be a terrible boss.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  Ah, that's pretty brutal. Thanks for the information I will keep that in mind. Seems less funny now. :/
- 4y ago

donmcronald 4y ago

I think the review industry is so bad that even a mediocre quality endeavor could gain a ton of traction. The problem with the current tech review industry IMO is that it seems like the benchmarking and review part of it are treated like separate business units that need to be self sustaining / profitable. If you go by what LMG says on their podcast it sounds like the intent is for the lab to give them credibility and to act as an eyeball funnel, even if it needs to be subsidized by the entertainment side of the business. They've already shown that it's possible to make entertaining reviews if you keep the technical details light, so what they really need is hard data to back them up when they trash a product or get accused of being a corporate puppet. I personally find their videos to be entertaining, so if I'm looking to buy something and I know they evaluate tech products, I'll go to their labs site, look for entertainment videos that are produced from that data, and watch those videos. Then when I find something I think looks like a good fit for me I'll jump back to the labs side to look at the details. IMO the thing that might make LMG's effort different is that they're going into the space as a new participant. I think they realize the technical aspect of the lab is basically going to be content that needs to exist, but that no one reads (enough to be profitable) and their monetization is set up to accommodate that scenario. Compare that to traditional reviewers (and SEO spammers) that rely on page views for their revenue. The whole review industry is going to keep shifting towards video and the low cost, low value SEO spam sites are a big part of that. Any existing review businesses that aren't shifting towards a hybrid model like the LMG / Labs plan are going to get crushed IMO. Even if it's not LMG doing it, it's going to happen eventually.

thr0wawayf00 4y ago

The big problem with most YouTube review channels is that they're reliant on the vendors to provide them with free test units and other forms of access in order to grow their channels, and Linus is no exception. I actually came across a "why I'm shutting down my channel" video a while back in which the host showed emails from the company whose product she was reviewing (it was a drawing tablet or something like that) pressuring her to show the product in a more favorable light. It's so hard to tell who's actually objective in those review videos and who's censoring themselves at the request of a vendor.

hoseja 4y ago
LTT is certainly NOT dependent on free review units any more.
- thr0wawayf00 4y ago
  Maybe not, but those channels still largely rely on regular access from these companies, which always presents a conflict of interest. I'm sure Linus does just fine in this regard, but the underlying problem still stands: if my Youtube channel's success is dependent on getting that kind of access to products early (as most top-tier reviewers do), I'm always going to have to decide between being as objective as possible and not biting the hand that feeds me. If you've watched a handful of review videos on YT at this point, there's a pretty good chance at least one of them was pre-approved by the vendor of the product being reviewed and you just don't know it.

yummypaint 4y ago

Gamersnexus has been similarly expanding their capabilities with very expensive fan testing equipment. They seem to be one of the better sources of consumer tech journalism these days.

throw10920 4y ago

What's the profit model for LMG? Ads? I'm not sure how long that will sustain even a smallish channel with no expenses, let alone electronic testing equipment and products to test.