8 ms·

Why do you choose that order?

HWR_14 4y ago
Do you not order them that way? That's my assumed ranking of trust.
hutzlibu 4y ago
Apple has some incentive to protect its users, as they are real customers. Google is at least clear, that they will suck in any data, they can get. But most of their clients are rather the product and not customers. And Zuckerberg has literally stated his disrespect for his users from the very beginning. "Dumb fucks to trust him".
- bogwog 4y ago
  Yeah Facebook and Google are both in the same business of sucking up as much data as possible, but Zuckerberg has consistently proven himself to be a menace to society.
babypuncher 4y ago
Not the original commentor but I have the same order. For me it boils down to these companies' business models. Google and Facebook make their money by providing a free service and selling access to the data of their users. In that sense, I am not their customer, but rather their product, being sold to advertisers. My use of Google and Facebook services mostly boils down to a lack of viable alternatives, because nobody can really compete with "free" on the scale these players operate at. Apple's business model is very different. Apple makes their money by selling me hardware, and access to their ecosystem through that hardware. I am the customer, not the product, and that is reflected in how Apple treats their users. Apple are big fans of creating vendor lock-in with a walled-garden approach to their ecosystem, but they also know that they only get away with this as long as their customers are satisfied enough not to look for alternatives. So while I do not find this arrangement ideal, I do find it considerably more honest and palatable than what Facebook is offering.
- throwaway1777 4y ago
  This is such a common trope I have to push back. FB absolutely depends on user growth so you are a customer as well. Advertisers would leave if you left. If you go to tiktok because meta’s products aren’t as good/fun/cool that is a huge problem. It’s possible for companies to have multiple customers, in fact it’s pretty common.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    TikTok is not really a direct competitor to Facebook. I'm trapped on Facebook because that is were a lot of my friends and family are, and FB Messenger is the only real way I have to talk to a lot of them. TikTok really only competes with a small part of Facebook's business (Instagram). Apple does not enjoy that kind of vendor lock-in. The impetus to move to competitor when you are unhappy is also a lot stronger when staying with your current provider costs you money.
    - LordDragonfang 4y ago
      >TikTok is not really a direct competitor to Facebook. TikTok isn't a direct competitor in your age demographic. Almost no one under the age of 20 has a Facebook account nowadays - when I asked high schoolers a few years ago it was Instagram instead, and TikTok is increasingly getting bigger.
      - babypuncher 4y ago
        I use both. TikTok feels more like YouTube, Twitter, and Instagram. It is a social media platform where most users follow a relatively small number of influencers, rather than interfacing with their peers. Facebook is more of a communication platform between peers. It kind of competes more with email and messaging clients. Facebook losing sight on this and pushing people to larger more impersonal groups and influencers is why I think they are dying, because everyone else already does that better. For my immediate family, Facebook has largely been supplanted by iMessage and iCloud. We hold conversations and group chats in iMessage, and share photos and videos through iCloud. TikTok fills a different purpose entirely.
matwood 4y ago
Apple's business is for the most part selling me things. They are not trying to capture all my data in order to drive their product. FB and Google are using my data to sell to advertisers. With that said, I'm not a Google hater. For my personal ranking Apple > Google >>>>>>>>>>>>>> FB. And following that model I have Apple devices, use Google, and haven't logged into FB in years.
- grumpyprole 4y ago
  The business of "selling you things" as many and often as possible is a danger to the environment and future generations. There is 155 thousand tonnes per year of e-waste generated in the UK alone (source Gaurdian). The current situation is not sustainable. Apple are also masters of vendor lock-in, making it very difficult for people and businesses to leave the ecosystem.
  - norman784 4y ago
    I think that you keep apple products longer than others, I kept my mbp retine 2013 till 2 years ago, iphones I change every 4 years or so (but they support for 5 years the mobile devices iirc), I bought in 10 years 2 apple tvs, while with google you can’t keep your device more than 2/3 years because of updates, most cheap laptops are thrown in a year or two. So I disagree with you, apple isn’t generating that much waste, but indeed they could generate less by opening the unsupported devices to install alternative OSes.
    - grumpyprole 4y ago
      > apple isn’t generating that much waste They shipped 1.65 billion devices in 2021. For the price we pay, we should be leasing them and Apple should be taking them back and properly recycling them.
  - kergonath 4y ago
    > There is 155 thousand tonnes per year of e-waste generated in the UK alone How much of that is £15 Chinese no-brand rubbish compared to £1,000 phones? It sounds like barking up the wrong tree to me, there are hundreds of OEMs that produce disposable hardware, few of them end up supporting their devices as long as Apple or even Google (!)

Do you not order them that way? That's my assumed ranking of trust.

Apple has some incentive to protect its users, as they are real customers. Google is at least clear, that they will suck in any data, they can get. But most of their clients are rather the product and not customers. And Zuckerberg has literally stated his disrespect for his users from the very beginning. "Dumb fucks to trust him".

bogwog 4y ago
Yeah Facebook and Google are both in the same business of sucking up as much data as possible, but Zuckerberg has consistently proven himself to be a menace to society.

babypuncher 4y ago

Not the original commentor but I have the same order. For me it boils down to these companies' business models. Google and Facebook make their money by providing a free service and selling access to the data of their users. In that sense, I am not their customer, but rather their product, being sold to advertisers. My use of Google and Facebook services mostly boils down to a lack of viable alternatives, because nobody can really compete with "free" on the scale these players operate at. Apple's business model is very different. Apple makes their money by selling me hardware, and access to their ecosystem through that hardware. I am the customer, not the product, and that is reflected in how Apple treats their users. Apple are big fans of creating vendor lock-in with a walled-garden approach to their ecosystem, but they also know that they only get away with this as long as their customers are satisfied enough not to look for alternatives. So while I do not find this arrangement ideal, I do find it considerably more honest and palatable than what Facebook is offering.

throwaway1777 4y ago
This is such a common trope I have to push back. FB absolutely depends on user growth so you are a customer as well. Advertisers would leave if you left. If you go to tiktok because meta’s products aren’t as good/fun/cool that is a huge problem. It’s possible for companies to have multiple customers, in fact it’s pretty common.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  TikTok is not really a direct competitor to Facebook. I'm trapped on Facebook because that is were a lot of my friends and family are, and FB Messenger is the only real way I have to talk to a lot of them. TikTok really only competes with a small part of Facebook's business (Instagram). Apple does not enjoy that kind of vendor lock-in. The impetus to move to competitor when you are unhappy is also a lot stronger when staying with your current provider costs you money.
  - LordDragonfang 4y ago
    >TikTok is not really a direct competitor to Facebook. TikTok isn't a direct competitor in your age demographic. Almost no one under the age of 20 has a Facebook account nowadays - when I asked high schoolers a few years ago it was Instagram instead, and TikTok is increasingly getting bigger.
    - babypuncher 4y ago
      I use both. TikTok feels more like YouTube, Twitter, and Instagram. It is a social media platform where most users follow a relatively small number of influencers, rather than interfacing with their peers. Facebook is more of a communication platform between peers. It kind of competes more with email and messaging clients. Facebook losing sight on this and pushing people to larger more impersonal groups and influencers is why I think they are dying, because everyone else already does that better. For my immediate family, Facebook has largely been supplanted by iMessage and iCloud. We hold conversations and group chats in iMessage, and share photos and videos through iCloud. TikTok fills a different purpose entirely.

matwood 4y ago

Apple's business is for the most part selling me things. They are not trying to capture all my data in order to drive their product. FB and Google are using my data to sell to advertisers. With that said, I'm not a Google hater. For my personal ranking Apple > Google >>>>>>>>>>>>>> FB. And following that model I have Apple devices, use Google, and haven't logged into FB in years.

grumpyprole 4y ago
The business of "selling you things" as many and often as possible is a danger to the environment and future generations. There is 155 thousand tonnes per year of e-waste generated in the UK alone (source Gaurdian). The current situation is not sustainable. Apple are also masters of vendor lock-in, making it very difficult for people and businesses to leave the ecosystem.
- norman784 4y ago
  I think that you keep apple products longer than others, I kept my mbp retine 2013 till 2 years ago, iphones I change every 4 years or so (but they support for 5 years the mobile devices iirc), I bought in 10 years 2 apple tvs, while with google you can’t keep your device more than 2/3 years because of updates, most cheap laptops are thrown in a year or two. So I disagree with you, apple isn’t generating that much waste, but indeed they could generate less by opening the unsupported devices to install alternative OSes.
  - grumpyprole 4y ago
    > apple isn’t generating that much waste They shipped 1.65 billion devices in 2021. For the price we pay, we should be leasing them and Apple should be taking them back and properly recycling them.
- kergonath 4y ago
  > There is 155 thousand tonnes per year of e-waste generated in the UK alone How much of that is £15 Chinese no-brand rubbish compared to £1,000 phones? It sounds like barking up the wrong tree to me, there are hundreds of OEMs that produce disposable hardware, few of them end up supporting their devices as long as Apple or even Google (!)