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This might be the most interesting and important point: "The thing is, this banning/terminating/deleting troll crap has been going on since I first got my mode

This might be the most interesting and important point: "The thing is, this banning/terminating/deleting troll crap has been going on since I first got my modem in 1986. I’ve been on every popular web platform, every one — and I’ve been “un-platformed” each time, because of specious complaints. The emerging media companies court early adopters, and then they can’t get rid of us fast enough." She participated in the famous WELL, back in the 1980s. It is interesting how long this particular struggle, over moderation policies, has been going on. She makes a good point that each of these companies has followed a similar pattern of first courting the kinds of radical experimenters who blaze new trails, and then later kicking them off platforms because they are not respectable: "This has been going on for decades now. It isn’t just Google, it’s all the majors: Apple, Amazon, FB, Twitter, Microsoft, AOL, on and on. I could name a dozen others who’ve disappeared in the social media mist. It’s cruel that each of them censor the very people who created their original incubators. Did you know that On Our Backs was the first magazine, of any kind, to publish with an early Apple computer and Adobe Pagemaker 1.0? Yes, we were. I was on The WELL in the 80s. Our idealism and commitment was ferocious!"

VonGuard 4y ago
Yep, this has been going on forever. That's why the Spritely Foundation and Project were created to put all the knowledge on this subject to use in a standards effort. https://spritelyproject.org/ https://spritelyproject.org/
brk 4y ago
>She makes a good point that each of these companies has followed a similar >pattern of first courting the kinds of radical experimenters who blaze new >trails, and then later kicking them off platforms because they are not >respectable IMO/IME this is not exactly how it happens. What really happens is that as these platforms grow, they attract the attention of religious zealot groups who conduct absolutely massive campaigns to take down any content that they personally see as inappropriate. They have their own private blogs and mailing lists, with people given names/emails to contact to lodge complaints about "highly offensive" content that they have never even viewed, they were just instructed to file complaints against it. A big part of the issue is that much of this content really only appeals to a small group of people, and many times those people do not even realize these attacks are happening in the background. The content platforms then decide it is easier to just ban this content so that they do not get overwhelmed with the religious zealot protests. I wish we could charge those kinds of groups with the impediment of free speech (at least in the US) and fine them out of existence.
- bityard 4y ago
  Religious groups have certainly been responsible for chilling _some_ content in modern times, but they are far from the biggest threat. The biggest threat is that only a handful of companies operate most of the Internet now and they want it to have all the diversity and culture of a suburban shopping mall.
  - xbar 4y ago
    Religious content bans happen all the time. Consider the ban of Lightyear in 14 countries last week. Also, it has never been easier to form geographically dispersed but aligned cultural groups. I don't know which Internet operators you are talking about, but mine does not give a crap about the culture of the content I consume--only the ability to sell me ads about it.
    - Ironlikebike 4y ago
      Just because they don't broadcast that they're doing it doesn't mean it's not happening. I think companies embrace moral relativism and attempt to stay within the Overton Window (or at most dabble near the edges). It's a survival necessity because their own profitability will suffer if they are found to facilitate content that is outside of that window. The Overton Window does drift, which explains how content can suddenly become objectionable in a matter of months.
    - oarsinsync 4y ago
      UK cellular network operators by default enforce an ‘adult content filter’, and require you to provide proof of being over 18 to get this removed (typically in the form of a credit card number as an identifier, not as a mechanism to be charged). These content filters block large swaths of the internet. Urban Dictionary is the one that trips me up every time I change networks. LGBTQIA+ related content has typically gotten caught up in this as well. You’re lucky if your Internet operator does not care. Unfortunately, there’s plenty of places where censorship is rampant, under the guise of just “think of the children.”
  - wrycoder 4y ago
skybrian 4y ago
The WELL is still around, by the way. Compared to modern forums, it's a bit hard to read because the subject lines don't change. Topics can last for many years and keep getting rolled over when they're full.

VonGuard 4y ago

Yep, this has been going on forever. That's why the Spritely Foundation and Project were created to put all the knowledge on this subject to use in a standards effort. https://spritelyproject.org/ https://spritelyproject.org/

brk 4y ago

>She makes a good point that each of these companies has followed a similar >pattern of first courting the kinds of radical experimenters who blaze new >trails, and then later kicking them off platforms because they are not >respectable IMO/IME this is not exactly how it happens. What really happens is that as these platforms grow, they attract the attention of religious zealot groups who conduct absolutely massive campaigns to take down any content that they personally see as inappropriate. They have their own private blogs and mailing lists, with people given names/emails to contact to lodge complaints about "highly offensive" content that they have never even viewed, they were just instructed to file complaints against it. A big part of the issue is that much of this content really only appeals to a small group of people, and many times those people do not even realize these attacks are happening in the background. The content platforms then decide it is easier to just ban this content so that they do not get overwhelmed with the religious zealot protests. I wish we could charge those kinds of groups with the impediment of free speech (at least in the US) and fine them out of existence.

bityard 4y ago
Religious groups have certainly been responsible for chilling _some_ content in modern times, but they are far from the biggest threat. The biggest threat is that only a handful of companies operate most of the Internet now and they want it to have all the diversity and culture of a suburban shopping mall.
- xbar 4y ago
  Religious content bans happen all the time. Consider the ban of Lightyear in 14 countries last week. Also, it has never been easier to form geographically dispersed but aligned cultural groups. I don't know which Internet operators you are talking about, but mine does not give a crap about the culture of the content I consume--only the ability to sell me ads about it.
  - Ironlikebike 4y ago
    Just because they don't broadcast that they're doing it doesn't mean it's not happening. I think companies embrace moral relativism and attempt to stay within the Overton Window (or at most dabble near the edges). It's a survival necessity because their own profitability will suffer if they are found to facilitate content that is outside of that window. The Overton Window does drift, which explains how content can suddenly become objectionable in a matter of months.
  - oarsinsync 4y ago
    UK cellular network operators by default enforce an ‘adult content filter’, and require you to provide proof of being over 18 to get this removed (typically in the form of a credit card number as an identifier, not as a mechanism to be charged). These content filters block large swaths of the internet. Urban Dictionary is the one that trips me up every time I change networks. LGBTQIA+ related content has typically gotten caught up in this as well. You’re lucky if your Internet operator does not care. Unfortunately, there’s plenty of places where censorship is rampant, under the guise of just “think of the children.”
- wrycoder 4y ago

skybrian 4y ago

The WELL is still around, by the way. Compared to modern forums, it's a bit hard to read because the subject lines don't change. Topics can last for many years and keep getting rolled over when they're full.