9 ms·

Swiss here. Amazing system, using it everyday. Brutally expensive tickets tho.

by immmmmm 4y ago

baq 4y ago
expensive in absolute or relative terms? is it expensive e.g. compared to a car?
- jokteur 4y ago
  I would say, if you take single tickets (even with the half-fare card), the tickets are quite more expensive than the trip with a normal car (counting costs of car, of gas, insurrance, ...). However, if you have a monthly fare because you go somewhere regularly, it is still expensive, but much more managable. The monthly General Abo (unlimited travel for all public transports in Switzerland) is ~340$/month. A parking spot in a city could already be from 80$ to 200$ a month.
  - cybrox 4y ago
    I'd like to add that the fact that single tickets are [sometimes too] expensive in some cases is due to the approach of billing by geographic zones, which has its own up- and downsides. For example: If I want to go from somewhere around Lake Zurich to Zurich, I have to pay to "travel in every geographical zone" between me and Zurich. However, this also allows me to travel freely in these zones. In addition to that, if you pay for a return trip (which most people usually do), you automatically pay for travelling freely in these zones in any direction for a full 24 hours. So assuming a half-fare card, I pay CHF 3.20 to take the bus 500m and back, which is ridiculously expensive for that distance, however, I "only" pay CHF 12.90 for riding all forms of PT (train, bus, ship, etc.) between me and Zurich, including the whole city for a full day, which is relatively reasonable for Zurich standards.
  - grncdr 4y ago
    That is way cheaper than I would have guessed. A yearly subscription for public transport in Berlin alone costs at least twice that.
    - p1anecrazy 4y ago
      S/he wrote 340 a month, not a year
      - herbst 4y ago
        City tickets in Switzerland also are around 300-500/year. (sure our cities are nowhere near Berlin in size) the 340/m option does allow you to use nearly any transport (boats, trains, buses, some cable cars) in the whole country including price reductions (up to 50%) for most non-included transport methods (like private mountain trains or tourist hot spot cable cars).
        a4a4a4a4 4y ago
        > City tickets in Switzerland also are around 300-500/year Zurich zone 110 (city center) is 782chf/year ($816) for the non-transferable one. Bern is 790chf/year. I'm not sure where you're getting "300-500/year". https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/de/abos-und-tickets/abos/netzpass.html https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/de/abos-und-tickets/abos/netzpass.htm... https://www.mylibero.ch/de/libero-abo/jahresabo https://www.mylibero.ch/de/libero-abo/jahresabo
        herbst 4y ago
        That's absolutely new to me. Last time I got a Libero it was like 380 or so for 2 zones. Thanks for the correction
  - runeks 4y ago
    > I would say, if you take single tickets (even with the half-fare card), the tickets are quite more expensive than the trip with a normal car (counting costs of car, of gas, insurrance, ...). Which numbers are you using for this calculation? I assume you have some price-per-kilometer traveled by car (all expenses included) and by train?
- herbst 4y ago
  Swiss here, it always depends. Some rides are cheaper by car but take less time by train and you have WiFi and fresh coffee in trains so it's only partially travel time partially leisure or work time. Some routes are more expensive, but again way more comfortable than a car. The there are dozens of hacks to save. Early booking, last minute bookings, half fair (which is only $200 or so a year and makes you pay half for everything including boats and some mountain trains), $50 24h all inclusive tickets, ... IMO if you assume our median income to be 3 times that of Austria (or Germany, Italy for that matter). And our tickets on average cost only 1.5-2x as much while we actually have one of the best networks you can think of I would say it's not expensive at all. My all in leasing car is $500 + petrol. For 2 people getting 2 all inklusive Tickets would still be cheaper.
  - cybrox 4y ago
    Half fare card is CHF 185 for the first year or CHF 165 for every subsequent year (CHF 120 / CHF 100 if you're 16-26). For anyone planning to spend any amount of time in Switzerland and using PT, it is well worth considering. It does exactly what it says, you only pay half. So assuming you travel from Zurich to Bern (CHF 51 -> CHF 26, you safe CHF 25), it's worth it after only 8 trips.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      Everyone seems to have a half price card except tourists. I think this is designed to get subsidize tourists less, because otherwise Swiss rail and metro prices appear twice as much as other European countries.
      - myrion 4y ago
        Tourists have access to tourist-only specials though, which make up for that, I think: https://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/inspiration/international-guests/swiss-travel-pass.html https://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/inspiration/internati...
        4y ago
tragomaskhalos 4y ago
That's not a bad trade-off to be fair. In the UK tickets (at least inter-city) are also brutally expensive but the system is, to put it kindly, often flakey.
- midasuni 4y ago
  I had a delay repay for the first time in years a few weeks ago - someone threw themselves under a train at Milton Keynes just before my train was due to leave Euston. I don’t consider £25 each way Manchester-London to be brutally expensive to be honest - http://brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=EUS&rte=371&tkt=SVR http://brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=EUS&rte=371&tkt...
  - Zenst 4y ago
    Shows as £46.70, which still isn't bad, though off-peak is often less painful. If you have to use the train to commute to work, then things start raking up. I live 15 miles outside London and 17 years ago was paying best part of £2k a year just to get into central london and back, today it would be the best part of £3k a year to make that same journey. Using the same tracks, (probably trains) and stations all those years ago. Though more people than back then, which was already at levels upon peak work commutes that saw you playing sardines.
    - CaptainZapp 4y ago
      That almost gets you one year of travel in 2nd class throughout the entire Swiss train network (including public transport in cities).
      - midasuni 4y ago
        Switzerland has a population of less than london. £3k would get you transport throughout london too - rail and bus.
    - iso1631 4y ago
      Nobody should be commuting from Manchester to London. That's £46.70 return, so £23.35 each way, arriving in London about 1030. Peak time london commuting is the most expensive part of the network to deliver, as it requires increased amount of capital that's mostly idle, yet peak time commuters get massive discounts compared with occasional use. Compare Reading to London. A season ticket works out to be about £22 return for 5 days a week, a normal peak time ticket is £52.10.
CaptainZapp 4y ago
Another Swiss here. Brutally expensive? Sure, when you look at full fare tickets. Since every Swiss, who uses public transport owns a half fare card those prices are (mostly) halfed, though. When it comes to commuter travel prices become outright reasonable. The best deal, if you use the train for a regular commute intercity is the Generalabonnement[0]. ca. $4000 (6500 for first class) for a year of unrestricted travel throughout the (almost) whole country on any train is actually a steal. There are also special saver tickets, restricted to a specific train and usually booked well in advance, which can be outright cheap. [0] https://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-and-tickets/railpasses/ga/ga-travelcard-prices.html https://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-and-tickets/railpasses/ga/...
- tauchunfall 4y ago
  German here, who traveled a lot through Switzerland. I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper). [1] Commuting between Fribourg and Zurich was always great, even when there were only circa five minutes to change trains in Bern. It's so efficient, I always catched my train in Bern. [1] >2019: 500'000 Exemplare des GA sind seit dieser Woche im Umlauf. Dies entspricht im Vergleich zu vor 20 Jahren einer Verzwanzigfachung. >Anzahl der Besitzer einer BahnCard 100 bis 2021. Die BahnCard 100 der Deutschen Bahn wurde lange Zeit immer beliebter, im Jahr 2021 gab es rund 36.000 Besitzer.
  - phaer 4y ago
    > I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper). [1] To contextualize this a bit: Switzerland has about a tenth of the German population (~8.5M vs ~83M)
  - ls15 4y ago
    > I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper). GA costs about 50% of a typical monthly Swiss salary. BC100 costs about 100% of a typical monthly German salary.

Swiss here. Amazing system, using it everyday. Brutally expensive tickets tho.

baq 4y ago

expensive in absolute or relative terms? is it expensive e.g. compared to a car?

jokteur 4y ago
I would say, if you take single tickets (even with the half-fare card), the tickets are quite more expensive than the trip with a normal car (counting costs of car, of gas, insurrance, ...). However, if you have a monthly fare because you go somewhere regularly, it is still expensive, but much more managable. The monthly General Abo (unlimited travel for all public transports in Switzerland) is ~340$/month. A parking spot in a city could already be from 80$ to 200$ a month.
- cybrox 4y ago
  I'd like to add that the fact that single tickets are [sometimes too] expensive in some cases is due to the approach of billing by geographic zones, which has its own up- and downsides. For example: If I want to go from somewhere around Lake Zurich to Zurich, I have to pay to "travel in every geographical zone" between me and Zurich. However, this also allows me to travel freely in these zones. In addition to that, if you pay for a return trip (which most people usually do), you automatically pay for travelling freely in these zones in any direction for a full 24 hours. So assuming a half-fare card, I pay CHF 3.20 to take the bus 500m and back, which is ridiculously expensive for that distance, however, I "only" pay CHF 12.90 for riding all forms of PT (train, bus, ship, etc.) between me and Zurich, including the whole city for a full day, which is relatively reasonable for Zurich standards.
- grncdr 4y ago
  That is way cheaper than I would have guessed. A yearly subscription for public transport in Berlin alone costs at least twice that.
  - p1anecrazy 4y ago
    S/he wrote 340 a month, not a year
    - herbst 4y ago
      City tickets in Switzerland also are around 300-500/year. (sure our cities are nowhere near Berlin in size) the 340/m option does allow you to use nearly any transport (boats, trains, buses, some cable cars) in the whole country including price reductions (up to 50%) for most non-included transport methods (like private mountain trains or tourist hot spot cable cars).
      - a4a4a4a4 4y ago
        > City tickets in Switzerland also are around 300-500/year Zurich zone 110 (city center) is 782chf/year ($816) for the non-transferable one. Bern is 790chf/year. I'm not sure where you're getting "300-500/year". https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/de/abos-und-tickets/abos/netzpass.html https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/de/abos-und-tickets/abos/netzpass.htm... https://www.mylibero.ch/de/libero-abo/jahresabo https://www.mylibero.ch/de/libero-abo/jahresabo
        herbst 4y ago
        That's absolutely new to me. Last time I got a Libero it was like 380 or so for 2 zones. Thanks for the correction
- runeks 4y ago
  > I would say, if you take single tickets (even with the half-fare card), the tickets are quite more expensive than the trip with a normal car (counting costs of car, of gas, insurrance, ...). Which numbers are you using for this calculation? I assume you have some price-per-kilometer traveled by car (all expenses included) and by train?
herbst 4y ago
Swiss here, it always depends. Some rides are cheaper by car but take less time by train and you have WiFi and fresh coffee in trains so it's only partially travel time partially leisure or work time. Some routes are more expensive, but again way more comfortable than a car. The there are dozens of hacks to save. Early booking, last minute bookings, half fair (which is only $200 or so a year and makes you pay half for everything including boats and some mountain trains), $50 24h all inclusive tickets, ... IMO if you assume our median income to be 3 times that of Austria (or Germany, Italy for that matter). And our tickets on average cost only 1.5-2x as much while we actually have one of the best networks you can think of I would say it's not expensive at all. My all in leasing car is $500 + petrol. For 2 people getting 2 all inklusive Tickets would still be cheaper.
- cybrox 4y ago
  Half fare card is CHF 185 for the first year or CHF 165 for every subsequent year (CHF 120 / CHF 100 if you're 16-26). For anyone planning to spend any amount of time in Switzerland and using PT, it is well worth considering. It does exactly what it says, you only pay half. So assuming you travel from Zurich to Bern (CHF 51 -> CHF 26, you safe CHF 25), it's worth it after only 8 trips.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    Everyone seems to have a half price card except tourists. I think this is designed to get subsidize tourists less, because otherwise Swiss rail and metro prices appear twice as much as other European countries.
    - myrion 4y ago
      Tourists have access to tourist-only specials though, which make up for that, I think: https://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/inspiration/international-guests/swiss-travel-pass.html https://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/inspiration/internati...
      - 4y ago

tragomaskhalos 4y ago

That's not a bad trade-off to be fair. In the UK tickets (at least inter-city) are also brutally expensive but the system is, to put it kindly, often flakey.

midasuni 4y ago
I had a delay repay for the first time in years a few weeks ago - someone threw themselves under a train at Milton Keynes just before my train was due to leave Euston. I don’t consider £25 each way Manchester-London to be brutally expensive to be honest - http://brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=EUS&rte=371&tkt=SVR http://brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=EUS&rte=371&tkt...
- Zenst 4y ago
  Shows as £46.70, which still isn't bad, though off-peak is often less painful. If you have to use the train to commute to work, then things start raking up. I live 15 miles outside London and 17 years ago was paying best part of £2k a year just to get into central london and back, today it would be the best part of £3k a year to make that same journey. Using the same tracks, (probably trains) and stations all those years ago. Though more people than back then, which was already at levels upon peak work commutes that saw you playing sardines.
  - CaptainZapp 4y ago
    That almost gets you one year of travel in 2nd class throughout the entire Swiss train network (including public transport in cities).
    - midasuni 4y ago
      Switzerland has a population of less than london. £3k would get you transport throughout london too - rail and bus.
  - iso1631 4y ago
    Nobody should be commuting from Manchester to London. That's £46.70 return, so £23.35 each way, arriving in London about 1030. Peak time london commuting is the most expensive part of the network to deliver, as it requires increased amount of capital that's mostly idle, yet peak time commuters get massive discounts compared with occasional use. Compare Reading to London. A season ticket works out to be about £22 return for 5 days a week, a normal peak time ticket is £52.10.

CaptainZapp 4y ago

Another Swiss here. Brutally expensive? Sure, when you look at full fare tickets. Since every Swiss, who uses public transport owns a half fare card those prices are (mostly) halfed, though. When it comes to commuter travel prices become outright reasonable. The best deal, if you use the train for a regular commute intercity is the Generalabonnement[0]. ca. $4000 (6500 for first class) for a year of unrestricted travel throughout the (almost) whole country on any train is actually a steal. There are also special saver tickets, restricted to a specific train and usually booked well in advance, which can be outright cheap. [0] https://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-and-tickets/railpasses/ga/ga-travelcard-prices.html https://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-and-tickets/railpasses/ga/...

tauchunfall 4y ago
German here, who traveled a lot through Switzerland. I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper). [1] Commuting between Fribourg and Zurich was always great, even when there were only circa five minutes to change trains in Bern. It's so efficient, I always catched my train in Bern. [1] >2019: 500'000 Exemplare des GA sind seit dieser Woche im Umlauf. Dies entspricht im Vergleich zu vor 20 Jahren einer Verzwanzigfachung. >Anzahl der Besitzer einer BahnCard 100 bis 2021. Die BahnCard 100 der Deutschen Bahn wurde lange Zeit immer beliebter, im Jahr 2021 gab es rund 36.000 Besitzer.
- phaer 4y ago
  > I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper). [1] To contextualize this a bit: Switzerland has about a tenth of the German population (~8.5M vs ~83M)
- ls15 4y ago
  > I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper). GA costs about 50% of a typical monthly Swiss salary. BC100 costs about 100% of a typical monthly German salary.