13 ms·

Two Years of Life with PinePhone

163 points by ollieparanoid 4y ago

mg 4y ago
I also have one for two years now: https://twitter.com/marekgibney/status/1276881389091278848 https://twitter.com/marekgibney/status/1276881389091278848 I have to say that I never found a use case for it. I remember that I hated the OS it came with. I think it was some flavor of Ubuntu that did not let you install software in any normal way. If I remember correctly, I did not even manage to get vim running. After some reading up on mobile Linux distros, I switched to Mobian, which I generally liked. But then I noticed that the phone wakes up and turns on the screen at random intervals. And quite often. Never found a solution to fix this. The web is full of reports about it: https://www.google.com/search?q=pinephone+wakes+up https://www.google.com/search?q=pinephone+wakes+up I watched the development around it for a while and contributed some details about the issue. Checked back every few weeks and did not see any progress. Then forgot about the phone at some point.
- jandrese 4y ago
  I have a Pine64 board from an ancient Kickstarter. Some parts of it like video decoding have never worked. There was at one point something vaguely in the shape of a driver that was supposed to support it appeared in an undocumented zip file but I never managed to get it to work. Requests for specs so the community could write their own driver fell on deaf ears. I decided never to buy another Pine product again, and I have not regretted that decision.
  - megous 4y ago
    Allwinner A64 supports accelerated video decoding in mainline Linux for a few years already. (See the links I psoted elsewehere in the comments.)
- hun3 4y ago
  I suspect this is due to incoming messages waking up the cellular modem, but the host being unable to recognize them. Either spurious, or dropped.
  - southerntofu 4y ago
    It's a subtle problem of tradeoffs. How do you keep the system aware of incoming messages when you'd like to save as much battery life as possible?
    - jeroenhd 4y ago
      This is a problem Android, which is also Linux-based, has already solved. You can wake up a process (on a power efficient core, if available) without waking up the screen. One problematic issue I can see the Pinephone have in regards to this is that there's no unified push service that works for all apps. Google has forced everyone on Android to use their push service and it's terribly restrictive for application development but over the years this has also solved a lot of battery life issues. Apps holding open connections of their own just to see if there are any notifications is fine on desktops but it's a challenge open platforms will need to solve somehow.
      - southerntofu 4y ago
        > One problematic issue I can see the Pinephone have in regards to this is that there's no unified push service that works for all apps. I don't think that's the problem. It would not be that hard to have system-wide settings to control which applications can apply for background updates. My (limited) understanding is that the difficulty resides in hardware support for sleep/low-power and the many different implementations from every hardware vendor. Note that it's also a problem on desktops/laptops (with S3 and related techs) even on Windows using official firmware/drivers. If you have more detailed reads, please share :)
      - l72 4y ago
        I wonder if running Mozilla's autopush[1] and making web push a standard across apps would help solve this? This would let you run your own push server (or use someone else's), configure it system wide on your device, and all apps would be able to use it automatically with their services. [1] https://autopush.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html https://autopush.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html
      - 4y ago
thematrixturtle 4y ago
> five to seven hours of idle battery life > a lack of notifications, something I as a "my phone is in silent mode, no it does not even vibrate, I mean it when I say silent" > when I dropped my PinePhones I was lucky enough to not break them, I am not affected by a failing WiFi/BT chip (an issue not too uncommon by my anecdata) > I remember attempting to bring the factory image up-to-date around the date devices shipped and ending up with it in a state where at least the GUI wouldn't come up after all > writing an update in gedit, running Firefox with ~20 tabs for hours would have been plainly impossible without multiple reboots and likely some unfortunate data loss in the meantime If this blog post is trying to convince me never to get a PinePhone, it's doing an excellent job.
- TylerE 4y ago
  Well, to be fair, everything I read about PinePhine convinces me to never get a pinephone.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    Well, I on the other hand was convinced, that I want one, as soon as it is stable and out of alpha. I am just getting sceptical, if that ever will happen. I know that I am also not helping for it to happen, but sorry, I had my share of weird linux driver issues.
  - horsawlarway 4y ago
    I'm mostly on the other side. The more I interact with both Android and iOS - the less I want to live in that world. I'm tired of products changing underneath me because "our metrics indicate that [insert ui change here] creates a 1.7% increase in user conversion from unpaid to paid seats" or "our metrics indicate that [feature] is heavily used by our most active paying customers, but most new subscribers don't use it at all - we need to push [feature] in their face so they become very active paying customers like the current users of [feature]!" or "Do you want to hear about all our products? I know you paid for no ads, but we're not showing you an ad - just a promotion that lets you know that there's a new product that we've just released. Also - Did I mention that our partners have also released a new product that we'll be promoting to you in just a moment! Isn't that great! Also - these aren't ads." And it's EVERYWHERE in those ecosystems, even in the companies that aren't blatantly disregarding your privacy for their own profit by just directly selling your data wholesale to the highest bidder. So at least for me, I really REALLY want something open source and usable in the phone sized device space. --- All that said - I have a pinephone, and it isn't there yet for me. But it's tantalizingly close.
4ggr0 4y ago
> That said, the accessories seem to be plagued by hardware bugs I received the Pinephone Keyboard a little more than a week ago. Ordered it because I thought it would revive my motivation to use the Pinephone, because it would turn it into a cool mini linux laptop. However, since receiving it, I wasn't able to get it working. According to the community the pins don't always make a connection to the phone and you have to shim it, while risking to break something. The keyboard charges the phone and all the required drivers are installed, but typing just wont work. Overall I still really like the idea of the Pinephone. But since receiving it in 2020 and recently receiving the keyboard I had to spend 90% of the time using it for debugging, fixing, reinstalling OS after breaking upgrades etc. and am now at a point where I just don't care about this device anymore. Because during the 10% when I can actually use it, it is just way to slow. I of course knew what I was getting into and know that it's still in a dev phase. My favourite OS to use is DanctNIX with SXMO, btw.
- i-am-cjc 4y ago
  I had this problem, it would charge and detect the keyboard was there (on screen keyboard wouldn't appear, but keyboard didn't input anything), It was down to the clip around the pins not being clipped in, so it was effectively pushing the case away from the pins. I had to give it quite a squeeze for it to pop in. Although to be honest, after using mine for a month I gave up for various reasons such as upgrades breaking things.
- ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
  I bought a PinePhone along with the keyboard case to muck around on as well. Initially, I got no response from the keyboard so I started reading up about it. The first think I found is that when you've got the phone attached to the keyboard, you mustn't use the phone socket for charging as it can fry the electronics (something about the charger chip in the keyboard, I believe) - only use the keyboard socket for charging when connected. Then, after worrying about whether I'd fried a brand new device, I discovered that after a software update, the keyboard suddenly started working. However, the top row of keys weren't working well and required a stern press for them to activate, so I hit the forums again looking for a solution. Some people were making shims for the top row of keys, but then I found a post going into detail as to why the keys had trouble activating. Apparently, the rubber doesn't have enough room to squish down, so an easy solution (if you have a dremel) is to remove the top row keycaps and remove a mm of material from the top edge of each keys (the side nearest the hinge). Took me about ten minutes and now they work perfectly. Still haven't found a good use case for it though as the screen is short and wide so not great for terminal hacking.
ge96 4y ago
I have og and Pro. One thing I wonder about is can the popular apps be made legally in an open source way, do you have to get the companies to make a Linux app for PP/PPP. This is with regard to get mass adoption.
- pabs3 4y ago
  You can probably just use Flatpak or web apps for a lot of things.
- cowtools 4y ago
  You can run android apps in a waydroid container, albeit it will still be closed-source.
  - ge96 4y ago
    yeah but that's back to android, nice to have the option
- southerntofu 4y ago
  That's why interoperability regulations is important. Who cares if an online service supports a specific platforms if it has open APIs? If the specs are there and the service can't by law prevent 3rd-party clients, it'll be easy to make a native client.
- kaba0 4y ago
  Is the Pro worth it? I like the idea and I own the og, but it is painfully slow. At this point I just check on the progress each month and put it back in the drawer :/
  - ge96 4y ago
    It is way faster. Has 6 cores, can run VS Code for example. But officially the cameras don't work yet. Although megous has it recording video. I do the same thing, put the batteries in, update them (run both Mobian/Phosh and Manjaro/KDE Plasma Mobile). Then turn them back off. I have a TMobile number for it but the pro also has this sleep/wake issue. Where it will not wake up after a while. It's more apparent with the plasma Mobile than Phosh. I think it's worth it with regard to saving money, supposedly the price will bump up. But as far a s a daily driver/main phone I still use an Android. The external display detect/reliability is buggy still too as in, plug it in, nope, plug it in, nope... There it's working. That kind of thing.
d--b 4y ago
I got one, never managed to get the phone to call. 4g wasn’t working either. I think I managed to receive a text at some point. I was disappointed to say the least.
urthor 4y ago
Unfortunately the hardware is incredibly subpar. I see no real future for Linux mobile unless the EU makes some law that forces Apple/Samsung to make flashing easier.
- megous 4y ago
  HW is kinda fine, if you don't try to overstress it. Here it's running some optimized software via a convergence dock on an external monitor (1920x1080): https://xnux.eu/log/videos/libreelec5.mp4 https://xnux.eu/log/videos/libreelec5.mp4 https://xnux.eu/log/videos/libreelec6.mp4 https://xnux.eu/log/videos/libreelec6.mp4 Here it's driving an even higher resolution screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHOgVmxH_dA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHOgVmxH_dA And here it's driving Firefox on a 1440p screen (purely rendered via CPU with GPU disabled): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdKNugT-mTQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdKNugT-mTQ What's subpar is software optimization of some apps, or some combinations of compositors and apps.
  - rebeccaskinner 4y ago
    The Firefox video there seems pretty misleading from my personal experience. I got a pinephone a couple of years ago with the intention of doing a little bit of development for it, and using it mostly as a handheld web browser and signal client. Even without plugging into an external monitor I found Firefox unusable for most my needs. With essentially any extensions it would grind to a halt. I don’t run a lot of extensions, but Firefox without ublock origin is essentially worthless to me, and with ublock origin enabled it would take Firefox tens of seconds to start, and several seconds to load a new tab. Scrolling on sites with a lot of images- especially infini-scrolling sites like Twitter was nearly impossible. I really want to like the pine phone, but whether the fault is hardware or software the result is that it’s just not there for performance in my experience. I’m hopeful that between the pine phone pro and a bit more time to optimize software it could be one day, but it seems a while off. Incidentally I have basically the same complaint about the pinebook pro. It’s not unusable, but a very small amount of extra power would take it from being a secondary laptop I only pick up for fun to a real viable daily driver when paired with a powerful desktop.
jokoon 4y ago
Why is battery life such a difficult thing to achieve? Is it hard to implement in a driver? Or is the battery just low quality? I've heard energy management is often difficult to do right in Linux, but I just wonder why...
- megous 4y ago
  What do you mean by battery life? That's just usually a function of temperature, number of charge cycles, not overharging, etc. And the battery will last you for a long time. Ceratinly for a few years.
  - TulliusCicero 4y ago
    They mean how long a battery lasts until depletion, not how long it lasts until it's no longer functional.
    - megous 4y ago
      Then, that's a function of device's power consumption, which is a function of many factors, which includes user behavior, too. It only makes to sense to talk about it with a particular usage in mind and not in general. You can have Pinephone suspended for 7 days if you like, under certain circumstances. Or you can drain it 2.5h if you mean to compile Gentoo on it. And completely different SW optimizations would come into play depending on the scenario. "Battery life" usually means how long will battery last, before you need to replace it.
      - Scharkenberg 4y ago
        > "Battery life" usually means how long will battery last, before you need to replace it. No, it does not. "Battery life" means how long the device lasts on a fully charged battery before it needs recharging. What you were thinking of is called "battery lifespan" or sometimes "battery longevity", or even "battery cycles".
      - TulliusCicero 4y ago
prox 4y ago
It’s a pity we are not at a level where open(-like) phones are a thing. I have been looking from time to time for one that pretty much works out of the box, but all the stories are not painting a pretty picture. What’s the showstopper into bringing an open phone to a general audience? (Aka open box, turn on, type in credentials and done.) In the meantime I hope my ancient iPhone keeps working.
- brutusborn 4y ago
  Possibly the general audience isn't interested in the benefits of an open phone. I remember a HN comment where a phone manufacturer said making relationships with suppliers was almost impossible without a decent sized market segment.
  - prox 4y ago
    So catch-22. No market, no manufacturing, and no manufacturing because no market. Ouch.
    - linmob 4y ago
      That's precisely why the PinePhone matters. One might criticize PINE64's approach of "throwing hardware over the wall and hoping that the community magically comes together and makes the software side work", but without PINE64 the situation would be even worse.
    - trelane 4y ago
      Is also true of computers generally. If you want a computer that really supports Linux (or whatever OS you want), you have to support the vendors that are doing the work.
  - jamil7 4y ago
    Maybe with the right positioning and marketing, e.g. playing the privacy or sustainability (repairability) angle, I could see more people being interested. Anecdotally, I've seen the things like the Fairphone have reasonable interest and adoption from non-tech friends and acquaintances.
john61 4y ago
Free Software needs time. This is a first step and a good one. Much progress is already visible. It will get better over time, because nearly every programmer knows deep inside that a really free phone is really needed. Every personal effort to help bring it to work makes perfect sense. Insofar this is an incredible important device and works.
schipplock 4y ago
Someone in the comments wrote: the hardware is very slow and very out of date compared to maistream this is my main gripe with the device. It's too slow for me. I don't like slow computers :).
- throwaway0129u 4y ago
eric4smith 4y ago
Humans are very adaptable just like animals. Put us to live with pigs and in less than a week we would be fine. Give us a PinePhone and we would be ok in a week or two. It would become "the new normal". In the end, you can take photos, run apps, develop shit, make calls, send text messages. It's just like switching between Android and iPhone and back again. Something that many of us have done at least once. Am I downplaying the PinePhone? Not at all. I'm just saying that its not a big deal one way or the other. If you used it, I'm sure you would be fine.
- roywashere 4y ago
  For many people, having to switch from iMessage is keeping them on iOS and would not even consider Android. Having no WhatsApp, no Spotify, no banking app, no Apple Pay or NFC payments, no Widevine so no Netflix and so on is making using Linux on the phone very difficult for both Android and iOS users unless they REALLY want to
  - imiric 4y ago
    This is a device for early adopters and enthusiasts. That crowd will have a secondary device that does all those things, and use the PinePhone as their main pocket computer. So until things improve and there are more alternatives to what you mentioned, this won't be a mainstream device. And that's fine. We should celebrate where we are today compared to a few years ago.
  - linmob 4y ago
    True. Well, mostly: You can use Spotify Premium, thanks to Spot: https://github.com/xou816/spot https://github.com/xou816/spot (I could go into bridging WhatsApp over Matrix, or using WhatsApp Web, but I realize that that's most likely too painful for most. Also, Waydroid makes lots of things work, but the side-effects on battery life made it seem impractical to me, to be honest.)
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  I can't tell if this comment is sarcastic or not.
LAC-Tech 4y ago
Can you use whatsapp on a pinephone? I know there's web whatsapp but you need to sign into that with a native app. Honestly the browser, google maps (which works in the browser), whatsapp, SMS, phone calls, alarm, stop watch, camera... that's really about all I use on a phone. If I can find a linux device to switch that does that, I'll switch in a heartbeat. Phones are the least pleasant part of my "digital life" because of their toy operating systems.
- liotier 4y ago
  So, an operating system whose governance isn't against the user's interests (that means free software) - but an Android environment aboard too...
  - LAC-Tech 4y ago
    Everything I want runs on the web. Except for the apps that need to scan the qr code so they can run on the web...
    - linmob 4y ago
      Megapixels (the most popular PinePhone camera app) can scan QR codes (but it's obviously limited by the overall quality of PinePhones camera hardware).
- Kbelicius 4y ago
  Maybe look in to sailfish os. It has android app support and so far (almost 3 years) whatsapp has worked for me without issues. Don't know about google maps, haven't tried it but I did install microg and got my bank app to work on it.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  The phone runs Linux, and on Linux you can run Anbox/Waydroid to run Android apps. I don't know how well WhatsApp works on Anbox, but theoretically it should be possible. From what I've read online the SoC is quite slow compared to most modern smart phones so your mileage may vary. Sadly, the mobile phone market is as closed down as ever, making it very challenging to get any kind of open source system to get calls or texts. There's a reason they shoved an external chip in there! If you want an open, somewhat limited but usable smartphone experience, check out Sailfish. They've been in the mobile phone market for years and their original base in Android makes the OS compatible with quite a few devices with decent SoCs. Personally, I'm waiting for the day you can hack PostmarketOS onto a phone and just use it as a phone, but that's not going to happen any time soon on closed hardware.
gabrielblack 4y ago
I had one device who died after a couple of weeks: suddenly it refused to switch on. So I found the real source of pain from Pinephone project: the assistance. I sent a detailed report about the hardware failure and they sent me a message about how properly recharge the phone , something like : "you need the power supply, insert the plug in the 220V socket, insert the USB-c cable, etc", demonstrating that they didn't read my message at all. After some further rounds of nonsense instructions, that , anyway, I followed giving them feedback about the results, I asked for a replacement. At that point, they started to waste time, another department apparently stepped in. After my complaints, they asked me to send the device back without acknowledgment of receipt, via ordinary post service, in the USA (I'm in Europe and I received the phone from Asia), sending to an anonymous p.o. box. I told them that it was unacceptable because in that way I took all the shipment risks not having any proof that I sent the device nor that the parcel in case of problems. Luckily, I found a post service with proof of shipment, so I had at least a receipt proving I sent the device back. At the end, they refused to send me a replacement, starting to negotiate the amount of the refund, because they wasted so many time I risked to not be able to ask Paypal intervention, I asked Paypal to step in receiving a full refund.
- 3np 4y ago
  On the initial response, in case it's the Pro that can be explained by a known hardware issue that manifests as an apparently bricked device if the battery gets drained and regardless of charger it takes several hours to bring it back to life[0]. Even so, that does not excuse the rest of the story and hopefully they can improve. A friend of mine also had some frustration with communicating with their customer service (which appeared outsourced or incompetent). [0]: https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Pro#Troubleshooting https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Pro#Troubleshooting
  - gabrielblack 4y ago
    Hi, I'm am a pro. I have laboratory equipment and I did the needed checks before opening the RMA. As explained to the service the problem was elsewhere. It's exactly the opposite, IMHO, they treat me as an idiot consumer that wasn't able to recharge a phone. I think they don't realize that this kind of device often is purchased by people different from the average consumer, so yes, I had same impression of your friend. Moreover, I tried to access their on-line form to request the RMA: the only browser at time able to access and send properly the request was Opera. I tested, Safari, Firefox, Chromium: only Opera was able to do the job.
asddubs 4y ago
i bought one with a keyboard case, and I love it. the software definitely still has some rough edges, and I wouldn't try to use it as a phone yet, but as a little pocket computer it's kind of awesome. and it's full linux, you can install apache on it, you can compile stuff, you can use vim, whatever you want. GUI applications that haven't been mobile optimized aren't always perfect, but often surprisingly usable (especially with the keyboard) - e.g. i like to use mednaffen to play emulated games on the train on it, and it works pretty darn well for something that isn't even supposed to work at all at that resolution.
chriswarbo 4y ago
I've been using a PinePhone for about 18 months, since the battery life on my OpenMoko was abysmal (fair enough, considering I'd been using it for over 10 years!) I'm running the default Manjaro + Phosh it came with, and upgrading through pacman. The phone functionality works fine (calls, SMS, phone book, etc.). One annoyance is that menus in Firefox don't display correctly, which makes addons like uBlock less useful :( I've also been using the hardware keyboard, which extends the battery life comfortably, and makes it much easier to do long-form writing (due to the physical keyboard itself, and not having an on-screen keyboard wasting space). Unfortunately the keyboard battery no longer seems to be working; I'm not sure if it's due to a kernel update, or a hardware problem (I may have fried the charging circuitry by plugging it in wrong!)
ztcfegzgf 4y ago
"I don't use it as a daily driver" (from the article)
- seba_dos1 4y ago
  Many people do though. Personally, I've been using a Librem 5 as my daily driver for more than two years now and couldn't be happier despite of some quirks.
- linmob 4y ago
  Author here: I am daily driving a Purism Librem 5 currently (in order to write a proper review about it). I have carried the PinePhone as a secondary device for a long time before, and I tried it as a main phone for a week twice (late 2020, April 2021) - things were too crashy for me back then (and the slowness admittedly annoyed me, too).
tpoacher 4y ago
My wife recently bought me a Pinephone Pro as a present. I liked the idea, but in practice I still haven't managed to use it because I'm stuck with basic problems. E.g., the battery wouldn't charge in the phone. I bought an external charger, and this seems fine, but ideally I'd like a backup battery so that I can charge one while I use the other. But pine64 batteries have been out of stock for ages. Their wiki says "The supplied battery is meant to be compatible with Samsung part number EB-BJ700BBC / BBE / CBE from the 2015 J7 phone": I bought the CBE one, but it's such a tight fit that I'm terrified of using it in case it explodes or something. I have no idea where to get a proper pine battery from. And the forums are not exactly flooding with activity when I asked my question (https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=16851 https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=16851) Beyond that, a lot of the stuff that is supposed to work on Pinephone, turns out doesn't work in the Pinephone Pro. In particular, the multiboot sd-card demo (https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=11347&pid=77027#pid77027 https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=11347&pid=77027#...), which I was really keen to try, because I found the 'stock' distribution that came with the phone pretty ugly and useless (to my needs, anyway). I had the Jolla phone in the past, and I was very happy with it, so I may try to install Sailfish when I get the time to figure out 'if' it's possible, and if so how ... But for now the pinephone pro is just sitting there, waiting for a compatible battery to show up, and me to find the energy to experiment with a compatible OS, before I'm even going to use the phone for anything even remotely productive. I'm gutted.
- linmob 4y ago
  If you’re in Europe: I like my replacement PolarCell battery.
  - tpoacher 4y ago
    Would you mind sharing more details / specification? Is the fit ok? (and are we talking about Pinephone, or Pinephone Pro?)
    - linmob 4y ago
      It's this one [1]. I have used it with the PinePhone for a long time, and it fits and works with the PinePhone Pro in my superficial impromptu testing - I have not yet checked whether it's able to drive the PPP at full load. This could be relevant as I vaguely recall the batteries of PP and PPP are different with regard to their coulomb spec. [1] https://www.ebay.de/itm/373621998423 https://www.ebay.de/itm/373621998423
Daniel_92 4y ago
Unfortunately I felt like this written TO someone who has owned a PinePhone for 2+ years and studies it's niche jargon. Is the author the author's target reader?
- kop316 4y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31808539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31808539
- linmob 4y ago
  Somewhat yes, it's written with people somewhat familiar with the matter in mind. I have time now, so feel free to AMA :)
blendergeek 4y ago
I have been using a Pinephone as my daily driver for the better part of two years. Here is my wishlist for hardware changes to the Pinephone: 1. Fix the emmc so that it runs fast. There is a known issue with the emmc that it runs at half its max speed. It can be trivially fixed in hardware (and Pine64 even recommends a solder based hardware mod) but Pine64 keeps selling phones with slow EMMC. This would solve some (though not all) of the perceived slowness of the Pinephone. 2. Usable hardware kill switches. You will notice that the article doesn't even mention the hardware switches for the camera/microphone/WiFi/BT/cellular. This is because the switches are A) under the back cover and B) too small to flip with a finger (requiring a toothpick or similar). Purism got this right by making the switches usable. 3. Add a "diffusor" to the LED notification light so that it is more visible from all angles and doesn't make an obvious spot on the ceiling in a dark room. The software bugs are numerous and I would not yet recommend a Pinphone to anybody who doesn't enjoy using the command-line on a phone. Also, Pine64 for years has listed replacement battery in their store but they have listed it as Out of Stock. As batteries are the part of a phone that must be replaced every couple of years and because it can be dangerous to use batteries of ill repute, Pine64 should actually sell replacement batteries.
- linmob 4y ago
  Regarding 2.: I asked about that for the PinePhone Pro, and I was told that changing the case is super expensive, as it requires new molds. From what I've heard elsewhere, PINE64 reused another companies case design (and molds) for the PinePhone, and that (duh, it was just some regular phone design) did not have kill switches. Regarding replacement batteries: There are some brands that make okay/fine replacement batteries, I am quite happy with the one I've written about in another comment on here. But yes: They should be available in a perfect world, but given current global supply chain problems, it's understandable that they are not at all times.
  - kop316 4y ago
    Unfortunately shipping li-ion batteries is not easy as well. IIRC, this is actually one explicit reason Pine64 is making an EU store, so it is easier to ship things like li-ion batteries to folks.
1970-01-01 4y ago
Based on many reviews, I've determined the PinePhone is -Missing a "killer app" -Not reliable in an emergency. -Near the UI experience of a much older Android or iPhone device, but without the battery life.
- CivBase 4y ago
  > Not reliable in an emergency. I find it interesting how much people's feeling of safety has become dependent on their access to a personal smartphone. I didn't even get a regular cell phone until high school, but I never felt like I was in danger. Now, even though everyone around me has a smartphone on their person, even I feel slightly uneasy when I don't have my own phone in my pocket.
- linmob 4y ago
  Arguably the killer app is that you can plug it into a display (using a convergence dock or directly, if the display supports USB-C) and that you can run your beloved Linux distribution of choice and make it your own thing. Battery life is also comparable to an older phone since we've got CRUST - not much "screen on" time, but it should last you a day.
- fsflover 4y ago
  > -Missing a "killer app" See "Reasons to buy" in the table: https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p...
danielEM 4y ago
There is something inherently wrong with that that you can not install a linux on basically any phone on the market that could work with linux with a bit of good will. I think we need truly open hardware and someone with money willing to stand against "status quo" of industry, like Elon Musk did with cars.
- flanking_pajama 4y ago
  "I think we need truly open hardware and someone with money willing to stand against "status quo" of industry, like Elon Musk did with cars." I- huh? Open hardware? Elon Musk? I can only find a vague legalese pledge that doesn't seem to be very attractive for real world use according to many, and I know that Tesla is starting to really enjoy being an Apple-like company with such hits like proprietary chargers. I'm also seeing no Teslas are listed on the supported page for projects like openpilot. What we need is general opinion to be against such closed ecosystems run by industrialists with world records for wealth concentration. Not dreams of Captain Save A Pleb.
  - danielEM 4y ago
    Well, the only thing i meant is that Elon stood against industry with elecrtic car idea. If not him I think not a single major car manufacturer would go for electric by now. And to be clear - agree with everything you've said, or almost everything - not dreaming of cpt. save anyone :)

163 points by ollieparanoid 4y ago

mg 4y ago

I also have one for two years now: https://twitter.com/marekgibney/status/1276881389091278848 https://twitter.com/marekgibney/status/1276881389091278848 I have to say that I never found a use case for it. I remember that I hated the OS it came with. I think it was some flavor of Ubuntu that did not let you install software in any normal way. If I remember correctly, I did not even manage to get vim running. After some reading up on mobile Linux distros, I switched to Mobian, which I generally liked. But then I noticed that the phone wakes up and turns on the screen at random intervals. And quite often. Never found a solution to fix this. The web is full of reports about it: https://www.google.com/search?q=pinephone+wakes+up https://www.google.com/search?q=pinephone+wakes+up I watched the development around it for a while and contributed some details about the issue. Checked back every few weeks and did not see any progress. Then forgot about the phone at some point.

jandrese 4y ago
I have a Pine64 board from an ancient Kickstarter. Some parts of it like video decoding have never worked. There was at one point something vaguely in the shape of a driver that was supposed to support it appeared in an undocumented zip file but I never managed to get it to work. Requests for specs so the community could write their own driver fell on deaf ears. I decided never to buy another Pine product again, and I have not regretted that decision.
- megous 4y ago
  Allwinner A64 supports accelerated video decoding in mainline Linux for a few years already. (See the links I psoted elsewehere in the comments.)
hun3 4y ago
I suspect this is due to incoming messages waking up the cellular modem, but the host being unable to recognize them. Either spurious, or dropped.
- southerntofu 4y ago
  It's a subtle problem of tradeoffs. How do you keep the system aware of incoming messages when you'd like to save as much battery life as possible?
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    This is a problem Android, which is also Linux-based, has already solved. You can wake up a process (on a power efficient core, if available) without waking up the screen. One problematic issue I can see the Pinephone have in regards to this is that there's no unified push service that works for all apps. Google has forced everyone on Android to use their push service and it's terribly restrictive for application development but over the years this has also solved a lot of battery life issues. Apps holding open connections of their own just to see if there are any notifications is fine on desktops but it's a challenge open platforms will need to solve somehow.
    - southerntofu 4y ago
      > One problematic issue I can see the Pinephone have in regards to this is that there's no unified push service that works for all apps. I don't think that's the problem. It would not be that hard to have system-wide settings to control which applications can apply for background updates. My (limited) understanding is that the difficulty resides in hardware support for sleep/low-power and the many different implementations from every hardware vendor. Note that it's also a problem on desktops/laptops (with S3 and related techs) even on Windows using official firmware/drivers. If you have more detailed reads, please share :)
    - l72 4y ago
      I wonder if running Mozilla's autopush[1] and making web push a standard across apps would help solve this? This would let you run your own push server (or use someone else's), configure it system wide on your device, and all apps would be able to use it automatically with their services. [1] https://autopush.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html https://autopush.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html
    - 4y ago

thematrixturtle 4y ago

> five to seven hours of idle battery life > a lack of notifications, something I as a "my phone is in silent mode, no it does not even vibrate, I mean it when I say silent" > when I dropped my PinePhones I was lucky enough to not break them, I am not affected by a failing WiFi/BT chip (an issue not too uncommon by my anecdata) > I remember attempting to bring the factory image up-to-date around the date devices shipped and ending up with it in a state where at least the GUI wouldn't come up after all > writing an update in gedit, running Firefox with ~20 tabs for hours would have been plainly impossible without multiple reboots and likely some unfortunate data loss in the meantime If this blog post is trying to convince me never to get a PinePhone, it's doing an excellent job.

TylerE 4y ago
Well, to be fair, everything I read about PinePhine convinces me to never get a pinephone.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  Well, I on the other hand was convinced, that I want one, as soon as it is stable and out of alpha. I am just getting sceptical, if that ever will happen. I know that I am also not helping for it to happen, but sorry, I had my share of weird linux driver issues.
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  I'm mostly on the other side. The more I interact with both Android and iOS - the less I want to live in that world. I'm tired of products changing underneath me because "our metrics indicate that [insert ui change here] creates a 1.7% increase in user conversion from unpaid to paid seats" or "our metrics indicate that [feature] is heavily used by our most active paying customers, but most new subscribers don't use it at all - we need to push [feature] in their face so they become very active paying customers like the current users of [feature]!" or "Do you want to hear about all our products? I know you paid for no ads, but we're not showing you an ad - just a promotion that lets you know that there's a new product that we've just released. Also - Did I mention that our partners have also released a new product that we'll be promoting to you in just a moment! Isn't that great! Also - these aren't ads." And it's EVERYWHERE in those ecosystems, even in the companies that aren't blatantly disregarding your privacy for their own profit by just directly selling your data wholesale to the highest bidder. So at least for me, I really REALLY want something open source and usable in the phone sized device space. --- All that said - I have a pinephone, and it isn't there yet for me. But it's tantalizingly close.

4ggr0 4y ago

> That said, the accessories seem to be plagued by hardware bugs I received the Pinephone Keyboard a little more than a week ago. Ordered it because I thought it would revive my motivation to use the Pinephone, because it would turn it into a cool mini linux laptop. However, since receiving it, I wasn't able to get it working. According to the community the pins don't always make a connection to the phone and you have to shim it, while risking to break something. The keyboard charges the phone and all the required drivers are installed, but typing just wont work. Overall I still really like the idea of the Pinephone. But since receiving it in 2020 and recently receiving the keyboard I had to spend 90% of the time using it for debugging, fixing, reinstalling OS after breaking upgrades etc. and am now at a point where I just don't care about this device anymore. Because during the 10% when I can actually use it, it is just way to slow. I of course knew what I was getting into and know that it's still in a dev phase. My favourite OS to use is DanctNIX with SXMO, btw.

i-am-cjc 4y ago
I had this problem, it would charge and detect the keyboard was there (on screen keyboard wouldn't appear, but keyboard didn't input anything), It was down to the clip around the pins not being clipped in, so it was effectively pushing the case away from the pins. I had to give it quite a squeeze for it to pop in. Although to be honest, after using mine for a month I gave up for various reasons such as upgrades breaking things.
ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
I bought a PinePhone along with the keyboard case to muck around on as well. Initially, I got no response from the keyboard so I started reading up about it. The first think I found is that when you've got the phone attached to the keyboard, you mustn't use the phone socket for charging as it can fry the electronics (something about the charger chip in the keyboard, I believe) - only use the keyboard socket for charging when connected. Then, after worrying about whether I'd fried a brand new device, I discovered that after a software update, the keyboard suddenly started working. However, the top row of keys weren't working well and required a stern press for them to activate, so I hit the forums again looking for a solution. Some people were making shims for the top row of keys, but then I found a post going into detail as to why the keys had trouble activating. Apparently, the rubber doesn't have enough room to squish down, so an easy solution (if you have a dremel) is to remove the top row keycaps and remove a mm of material from the top edge of each keys (the side nearest the hinge). Took me about ten minutes and now they work perfectly. Still haven't found a good use case for it though as the screen is short and wide so not great for terminal hacking.

ge96 4y ago

I have og and Pro. One thing I wonder about is can the popular apps be made legally in an open source way, do you have to get the companies to make a Linux app for PP/PPP. This is with regard to get mass adoption.

pabs3 4y ago
You can probably just use Flatpak or web apps for a lot of things.
cowtools 4y ago
You can run android apps in a waydroid container, albeit it will still be closed-source.
- ge96 4y ago
  yeah but that's back to android, nice to have the option
southerntofu 4y ago
That's why interoperability regulations is important. Who cares if an online service supports a specific platforms if it has open APIs? If the specs are there and the service can't by law prevent 3rd-party clients, it'll be easy to make a native client.
kaba0 4y ago
Is the Pro worth it? I like the idea and I own the og, but it is painfully slow. At this point I just check on the progress each month and put it back in the drawer :/
- ge96 4y ago
  It is way faster. Has 6 cores, can run VS Code for example. But officially the cameras don't work yet. Although megous has it recording video. I do the same thing, put the batteries in, update them (run both Mobian/Phosh and Manjaro/KDE Plasma Mobile). Then turn them back off. I have a TMobile number for it but the pro also has this sleep/wake issue. Where it will not wake up after a while. It's more apparent with the plasma Mobile than Phosh. I think it's worth it with regard to saving money, supposedly the price will bump up. But as far a s a daily driver/main phone I still use an Android. The external display detect/reliability is buggy still too as in, plug it in, nope, plug it in, nope... There it's working. That kind of thing.

d--b 4y ago

I got one, never managed to get the phone to call. 4g wasn’t working either. I think I managed to receive a text at some point. I was disappointed to say the least.

urthor 4y ago

Unfortunately the hardware is incredibly subpar. I see no real future for Linux mobile unless the EU makes some law that forces Apple/Samsung to make flashing easier.

megous 4y ago
HW is kinda fine, if you don't try to overstress it. Here it's running some optimized software via a convergence dock on an external monitor (1920x1080): https://xnux.eu/log/videos/libreelec5.mp4 https://xnux.eu/log/videos/libreelec5.mp4 https://xnux.eu/log/videos/libreelec6.mp4 https://xnux.eu/log/videos/libreelec6.mp4 Here it's driving an even higher resolution screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHOgVmxH_dA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHOgVmxH_dA And here it's driving Firefox on a 1440p screen (purely rendered via CPU with GPU disabled): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdKNugT-mTQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdKNugT-mTQ What's subpar is software optimization of some apps, or some combinations of compositors and apps.
- rebeccaskinner 4y ago
  The Firefox video there seems pretty misleading from my personal experience. I got a pinephone a couple of years ago with the intention of doing a little bit of development for it, and using it mostly as a handheld web browser and signal client. Even without plugging into an external monitor I found Firefox unusable for most my needs. With essentially any extensions it would grind to a halt. I don’t run a lot of extensions, but Firefox without ublock origin is essentially worthless to me, and with ublock origin enabled it would take Firefox tens of seconds to start, and several seconds to load a new tab. Scrolling on sites with a lot of images- especially infini-scrolling sites like Twitter was nearly impossible. I really want to like the pine phone, but whether the fault is hardware or software the result is that it’s just not there for performance in my experience. I’m hopeful that between the pine phone pro and a bit more time to optimize software it could be one day, but it seems a while off. Incidentally I have basically the same complaint about the pinebook pro. It’s not unusable, but a very small amount of extra power would take it from being a secondary laptop I only pick up for fun to a real viable daily driver when paired with a powerful desktop.

jokoon 4y ago

Why is battery life such a difficult thing to achieve? Is it hard to implement in a driver? Or is the battery just low quality? I've heard energy management is often difficult to do right in Linux, but I just wonder why...

megous 4y ago
What do you mean by battery life? That's just usually a function of temperature, number of charge cycles, not overharging, etc. And the battery will last you for a long time. Ceratinly for a few years.
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  They mean how long a battery lasts until depletion, not how long it lasts until it's no longer functional.
  - megous 4y ago
    Then, that's a function of device's power consumption, which is a function of many factors, which includes user behavior, too. It only makes to sense to talk about it with a particular usage in mind and not in general. You can have Pinephone suspended for 7 days if you like, under certain circumstances. Or you can drain it 2.5h if you mean to compile Gentoo on it. And completely different SW optimizations would come into play depending on the scenario. "Battery life" usually means how long will battery last, before you need to replace it.
    - Scharkenberg 4y ago
      > "Battery life" usually means how long will battery last, before you need to replace it. No, it does not. "Battery life" means how long the device lasts on a fully charged battery before it needs recharging. What you were thinking of is called "battery lifespan" or sometimes "battery longevity", or even "battery cycles".
    - TulliusCicero 4y ago

prox 4y ago

It’s a pity we are not at a level where open(-like) phones are a thing. I have been looking from time to time for one that pretty much works out of the box, but all the stories are not painting a pretty picture. What’s the showstopper into bringing an open phone to a general audience? (Aka open box, turn on, type in credentials and done.) In the meantime I hope my ancient iPhone keeps working.

brutusborn 4y ago
Possibly the general audience isn't interested in the benefits of an open phone. I remember a HN comment where a phone manufacturer said making relationships with suppliers was almost impossible without a decent sized market segment.
- prox 4y ago
  So catch-22. No market, no manufacturing, and no manufacturing because no market. Ouch.
  - linmob 4y ago
    That's precisely why the PinePhone matters. One might criticize PINE64's approach of "throwing hardware over the wall and hoping that the community magically comes together and makes the software side work", but without PINE64 the situation would be even worse.
  - trelane 4y ago
    Is also true of computers generally. If you want a computer that really supports Linux (or whatever OS you want), you have to support the vendors that are doing the work.
- jamil7 4y ago
  Maybe with the right positioning and marketing, e.g. playing the privacy or sustainability (repairability) angle, I could see more people being interested. Anecdotally, I've seen the things like the Fairphone have reasonable interest and adoption from non-tech friends and acquaintances.

john61 4y ago

Free Software needs time. This is a first step and a good one. Much progress is already visible. It will get better over time, because nearly every programmer knows deep inside that a really free phone is really needed. Every personal effort to help bring it to work makes perfect sense. Insofar this is an incredible important device and works.

schipplock 4y ago

Someone in the comments wrote: the hardware is very slow and very out of date compared to maistream this is my main gripe with the device. It's too slow for me. I don't like slow computers :).

throwaway0129u 4y ago

eric4smith 4y ago

Humans are very adaptable just like animals. Put us to live with pigs and in less than a week we would be fine. Give us a PinePhone and we would be ok in a week or two. It would become "the new normal". In the end, you can take photos, run apps, develop shit, make calls, send text messages. It's just like switching between Android and iPhone and back again. Something that many of us have done at least once. Am I downplaying the PinePhone? Not at all. I'm just saying that its not a big deal one way or the other. If you used it, I'm sure you would be fine.

roywashere 4y ago
For many people, having to switch from iMessage is keeping them on iOS and would not even consider Android. Having no WhatsApp, no Spotify, no banking app, no Apple Pay or NFC payments, no Widevine so no Netflix and so on is making using Linux on the phone very difficult for both Android and iOS users unless they REALLY want to
- imiric 4y ago
  This is a device for early adopters and enthusiasts. That crowd will have a secondary device that does all those things, and use the PinePhone as their main pocket computer. So until things improve and there are more alternatives to what you mentioned, this won't be a mainstream device. And that's fine. We should celebrate where we are today compared to a few years ago.
- linmob 4y ago
  True. Well, mostly: You can use Spotify Premium, thanks to Spot: https://github.com/xou816/spot https://github.com/xou816/spot (I could go into bridging WhatsApp over Matrix, or using WhatsApp Web, but I realize that that's most likely too painful for most. Also, Waydroid makes lots of things work, but the side-effects on battery life made it seem impractical to me, to be honest.)
Workaccount2 4y ago
I can't tell if this comment is sarcastic or not.

LAC-Tech 4y ago

Can you use whatsapp on a pinephone? I know there's web whatsapp but you need to sign into that with a native app. Honestly the browser, google maps (which works in the browser), whatsapp, SMS, phone calls, alarm, stop watch, camera... that's really about all I use on a phone. If I can find a linux device to switch that does that, I'll switch in a heartbeat. Phones are the least pleasant part of my "digital life" because of their toy operating systems.

liotier 4y ago
So, an operating system whose governance isn't against the user's interests (that means free software) - but an Android environment aboard too...
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  Everything I want runs on the web. Except for the apps that need to scan the qr code so they can run on the web...
  - linmob 4y ago
    Megapixels (the most popular PinePhone camera app) can scan QR codes (but it's obviously limited by the overall quality of PinePhones camera hardware).
Kbelicius 4y ago
Maybe look in to sailfish os. It has android app support and so far (almost 3 years) whatsapp has worked for me without issues. Don't know about google maps, haven't tried it but I did install microg and got my bank app to work on it.
jeroenhd 4y ago
The phone runs Linux, and on Linux you can run Anbox/Waydroid to run Android apps. I don't know how well WhatsApp works on Anbox, but theoretically it should be possible. From what I've read online the SoC is quite slow compared to most modern smart phones so your mileage may vary. Sadly, the mobile phone market is as closed down as ever, making it very challenging to get any kind of open source system to get calls or texts. There's a reason they shoved an external chip in there! If you want an open, somewhat limited but usable smartphone experience, check out Sailfish. They've been in the mobile phone market for years and their original base in Android makes the OS compatible with quite a few devices with decent SoCs. Personally, I'm waiting for the day you can hack PostmarketOS onto a phone and just use it as a phone, but that's not going to happen any time soon on closed hardware.

gabrielblack 4y ago

I had one device who died after a couple of weeks: suddenly it refused to switch on. So I found the real source of pain from Pinephone project: the assistance. I sent a detailed report about the hardware failure and they sent me a message about how properly recharge the phone , something like : "you need the power supply, insert the plug in the 220V socket, insert the USB-c cable, etc", demonstrating that they didn't read my message at all. After some further rounds of nonsense instructions, that , anyway, I followed giving them feedback about the results, I asked for a replacement. At that point, they started to waste time, another department apparently stepped in. After my complaints, they asked me to send the device back without acknowledgment of receipt, via ordinary post service, in the USA (I'm in Europe and I received the phone from Asia), sending to an anonymous p.o. box. I told them that it was unacceptable because in that way I took all the shipment risks not having any proof that I sent the device nor that the parcel in case of problems. Luckily, I found a post service with proof of shipment, so I had at least a receipt proving I sent the device back. At the end, they refused to send me a replacement, starting to negotiate the amount of the refund, because they wasted so many time I risked to not be able to ask Paypal intervention, I asked Paypal to step in receiving a full refund.

3np 4y ago
On the initial response, in case it's the Pro that can be explained by a known hardware issue that manifests as an apparently bricked device if the battery gets drained and regardless of charger it takes several hours to bring it back to life[0]. Even so, that does not excuse the rest of the story and hopefully they can improve. A friend of mine also had some frustration with communicating with their customer service (which appeared outsourced or incompetent). [0]: https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Pro#Troubleshooting https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_Pro#Troubleshooting
- gabrielblack 4y ago
  Hi, I'm am a pro. I have laboratory equipment and I did the needed checks before opening the RMA. As explained to the service the problem was elsewhere. It's exactly the opposite, IMHO, they treat me as an idiot consumer that wasn't able to recharge a phone. I think they don't realize that this kind of device often is purchased by people different from the average consumer, so yes, I had same impression of your friend. Moreover, I tried to access their on-line form to request the RMA: the only browser at time able to access and send properly the request was Opera. I tested, Safari, Firefox, Chromium: only Opera was able to do the job.

asddubs 4y ago

i bought one with a keyboard case, and I love it. the software definitely still has some rough edges, and I wouldn't try to use it as a phone yet, but as a little pocket computer it's kind of awesome. and it's full linux, you can install apache on it, you can compile stuff, you can use vim, whatever you want. GUI applications that haven't been mobile optimized aren't always perfect, but often surprisingly usable (especially with the keyboard) - e.g. i like to use mednaffen to play emulated games on the train on it, and it works pretty darn well for something that isn't even supposed to work at all at that resolution.

chriswarbo 4y ago

I've been using a PinePhone for about 18 months, since the battery life on my OpenMoko was abysmal (fair enough, considering I'd been using it for over 10 years!) I'm running the default Manjaro + Phosh it came with, and upgrading through pacman. The phone functionality works fine (calls, SMS, phone book, etc.). One annoyance is that menus in Firefox don't display correctly, which makes addons like uBlock less useful :( I've also been using the hardware keyboard, which extends the battery life comfortably, and makes it much easier to do long-form writing (due to the physical keyboard itself, and not having an on-screen keyboard wasting space). Unfortunately the keyboard battery no longer seems to be working; I'm not sure if it's due to a kernel update, or a hardware problem (I may have fried the charging circuitry by plugging it in wrong!)

ztcfegzgf 4y ago

"I don't use it as a daily driver" (from the article)

seba_dos1 4y ago
Many people do though. Personally, I've been using a Librem 5 as my daily driver for more than two years now and couldn't be happier despite of some quirks.
linmob 4y ago
Author here: I am daily driving a Purism Librem 5 currently (in order to write a proper review about it). I have carried the PinePhone as a secondary device for a long time before, and I tried it as a main phone for a week twice (late 2020, April 2021) - things were too crashy for me back then (and the slowness admittedly annoyed me, too).

tpoacher 4y ago

My wife recently bought me a Pinephone Pro as a present. I liked the idea, but in practice I still haven't managed to use it because I'm stuck with basic problems. E.g., the battery wouldn't charge in the phone. I bought an external charger, and this seems fine, but ideally I'd like a backup battery so that I can charge one while I use the other. But pine64 batteries have been out of stock for ages. Their wiki says "The supplied battery is meant to be compatible with Samsung part number EB-BJ700BBC / BBE / CBE from the 2015 J7 phone": I bought the CBE one, but it's such a tight fit that I'm terrified of using it in case it explodes or something. I have no idea where to get a proper pine battery from. And the forums are not exactly flooding with activity when I asked my question (https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=16851 https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=16851) Beyond that, a lot of the stuff that is supposed to work on Pinephone, turns out doesn't work in the Pinephone Pro. In particular, the multiboot sd-card demo (https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=11347&pid=77027#pid77027 https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=11347&pid=77027#...), which I was really keen to try, because I found the 'stock' distribution that came with the phone pretty ugly and useless (to my needs, anyway). I had the Jolla phone in the past, and I was very happy with it, so I may try to install Sailfish when I get the time to figure out 'if' it's possible, and if so how ... But for now the pinephone pro is just sitting there, waiting for a compatible battery to show up, and me to find the energy to experiment with a compatible OS, before I'm even going to use the phone for anything even remotely productive. I'm gutted.

linmob 4y ago
If you’re in Europe: I like my replacement PolarCell battery.
- tpoacher 4y ago
  Would you mind sharing more details / specification? Is the fit ok? (and are we talking about Pinephone, or Pinephone Pro?)
  - linmob 4y ago
    It's this one [1]. I have used it with the PinePhone for a long time, and it fits and works with the PinePhone Pro in my superficial impromptu testing - I have not yet checked whether it's able to drive the PPP at full load. This could be relevant as I vaguely recall the batteries of PP and PPP are different with regard to their coulomb spec. [1] https://www.ebay.de/itm/373621998423 https://www.ebay.de/itm/373621998423

Daniel_92 4y ago

Unfortunately I felt like this written TO someone who has owned a PinePhone for 2+ years and studies it's niche jargon. Is the author the author's target reader?

kop316 4y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31808539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31808539
linmob 4y ago
Somewhat yes, it's written with people somewhat familiar with the matter in mind. I have time now, so feel free to AMA :)

blendergeek 4y ago

I have been using a Pinephone as my daily driver for the better part of two years. Here is my wishlist for hardware changes to the Pinephone: 1. Fix the emmc so that it runs fast. There is a known issue with the emmc that it runs at half its max speed. It can be trivially fixed in hardware (and Pine64 even recommends a solder based hardware mod) but Pine64 keeps selling phones with slow EMMC. This would solve some (though not all) of the perceived slowness of the Pinephone. 2. Usable hardware kill switches. You will notice that the article doesn't even mention the hardware switches for the camera/microphone/WiFi/BT/cellular. This is because the switches are A) under the back cover and B) too small to flip with a finger (requiring a toothpick or similar). Purism got this right by making the switches usable. 3. Add a "diffusor" to the LED notification light so that it is more visible from all angles and doesn't make an obvious spot on the ceiling in a dark room. The software bugs are numerous and I would not yet recommend a Pinphone to anybody who doesn't enjoy using the command-line on a phone. Also, Pine64 for years has listed replacement battery in their store but they have listed it as Out of Stock. As batteries are the part of a phone that must be replaced every couple of years and because it can be dangerous to use batteries of ill repute, Pine64 should actually sell replacement batteries.

linmob 4y ago
Regarding 2.: I asked about that for the PinePhone Pro, and I was told that changing the case is super expensive, as it requires new molds. From what I've heard elsewhere, PINE64 reused another companies case design (and molds) for the PinePhone, and that (duh, it was just some regular phone design) did not have kill switches. Regarding replacement batteries: There are some brands that make okay/fine replacement batteries, I am quite happy with the one I've written about in another comment on here. But yes: They should be available in a perfect world, but given current global supply chain problems, it's understandable that they are not at all times.
- kop316 4y ago
  Unfortunately shipping li-ion batteries is not easy as well. IIRC, this is actually one explicit reason Pine64 is making an EU store, so it is easier to ship things like li-ion batteries to folks.

1970-01-01 4y ago

Based on many reviews, I've determined the PinePhone is -Missing a "killer app" -Not reliable in an emergency. -Near the UI experience of a much older Android or iPhone device, but without the battery life.

CivBase 4y ago
> Not reliable in an emergency. I find it interesting how much people's feeling of safety has become dependent on their access to a personal smartphone. I didn't even get a regular cell phone until high school, but I never felt like I was in danger. Now, even though everyone around me has a smartphone on their person, even I feel slightly uneasy when I don't have my own phone in my pocket.
linmob 4y ago
Arguably the killer app is that you can plug it into a display (using a convergence dock or directly, if the display supports USB-C) and that you can run your beloved Linux distribution of choice and make it your own thing. Battery life is also comparable to an older phone since we've got CRUST - not much "screen on" time, but it should last you a day.
fsflover 4y ago
> -Missing a "killer app" See "Reasons to buy" in the table: https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-phones/6827 https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p...

danielEM 4y ago

There is something inherently wrong with that that you can not install a linux on basically any phone on the market that could work with linux with a bit of good will. I think we need truly open hardware and someone with money willing to stand against "status quo" of industry, like Elon Musk did with cars.

flanking_pajama 4y ago
"I think we need truly open hardware and someone with money willing to stand against "status quo" of industry, like Elon Musk did with cars." I- huh? Open hardware? Elon Musk? I can only find a vague legalese pledge that doesn't seem to be very attractive for real world use according to many, and I know that Tesla is starting to really enjoy being an Apple-like company with such hits like proprietary chargers. I'm also seeing no Teslas are listed on the supported page for projects like openpilot. What we need is general opinion to be against such closed ecosystems run by industrialists with world records for wealth concentration. Not dreams of Captain Save A Pleb.
- danielEM 4y ago
  Well, the only thing i meant is that Elon stood against industry with elecrtic car idea. If not him I think not a single major car manufacturer would go for electric by now. And to be clear - agree with everything you've said, or almost everything - not dreaming of cpt. save anyone :)