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Lighting and composition can do a lot to compensate for a weak camera, but read the post: this isn’t saying “Zoom video looks bad [potentially because of bad li

by jrk 4y ago

Lighting and composition can do a lot to compensate for a weak camera, but read the post: this isn’t saying “Zoom video looks bad [potentially because of bad lighting and composition],” it’s saying “even high-end webcams are enormously worse than even old, low-end/front-facing cell phone cameras in the same conditions, and it’s not getting better.” So yes, all things being equal, better lighting helps. But this post is showing that a better (but similarly sized or even smaller) camera helps enormously, and the webcam market is persistently unwilling/unable to give them to us.

logifail 4y ago
> So yes, all things being equal, better lighting helps $63 on a C920, add one window (typically ships free with your house/apartment) plus access to one truly special light source which although it's 93 million miles away you were lucky enough to get a free lifetime subscription to when you arrived on this planet. Why spent time worrying about what a cell phone camera can achieve in poor or uneven lighting if a bog-standard webcam can do a really good job if you just fix the damned lighting?
- joe-collins 4y ago
  My current apartment has no south windows. The previous unit had none east. Before that, no north. Before that, no south or north windows. "Just" fixing some problems can be a luxury.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > "Just" fixing some problems can be a luxury It really needn't be. (Proper) photographers have been dealing with these very same issues for longer than we've all been worrying about how we look on Zoom. Window Light: The Biggest, Bestest Softbox You Already Own: "Let’s say your windows are west-facing and you want to shoot in the afternoon. And you’re really terrified of hard light. Keep thinking of your window as a softbox. You just need what they refer to in film production as a “silk”. The same material (ripstop nylon) that is found on the front of most softboxes can be placed in front of your window to turn hard, late day light into a glowing, golden, majestic light bath for your subject’s face."[0] [0] https://fstoppers.com/education/window-light-biggest-bestest-softbox-you-already-own-143498 https://fstoppers.com/education/window-light-biggest-bestest...
    - SapporoChris 4y ago
      I think I understand your point, under ideal or almost ideal conditions most webcams can work fine. However, most people are not graced with the understanding of lighting and how cameras work. There's lots of opportunity to compensate or at least guide people with better hardware and software. The work done with smartphone cameras is clear evidence of this.
    - Sebb767 4y ago
      Which is a great option, at least if you can plan your Zoom meetings by the correct time for ideal sunlight! Unfortunately, this isn't the case for most people.
    - yunohn 4y ago
      I’m confused why you’re harping on about windows - which cannot be guaranteed in direction, location, size, or number in any house unless you build it yourself. Further, outside of the equatorial region, sunlight is also not guaranteed throughout the day during the year. Clearly, your solution is neither “easy” nor optimal. Glad that it works for you, but it’s not for everyone.
- WheatM 4y ago
  Imagine the mind blowing privilege of not just having a separate home office, but having being able to design it to yoru exact specifications with a window facing north, and telling people to "just add windows". Some people on here are so out of touch.
  - cto_of_antifa 4y ago
- bjourne 4y ago
  The point of the article is that even a shitty old cell phone handily beats a "mid-range" C920 webcam. Yes, lighting conditions are important to photography, but, as the author demonstrates, cell phone cameras are better even in those scenarios. Furthermore, if you live in northern latitudes you get very little sunlight during the winter so a "window" is not a sufficient solution.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > Furthermore, if you live in northern latitudes you get very little sunlight during the winter so a "window" is not a sufficient solution Perhaps I wasn't clear: a North-facing window never gets direct sunlight, but doesn't matter because we're after neutral, even light. Certainly not "direct light", not even "lots of light". Just neutral, even light. It's worked for artists for centuries.
    - chownie 4y ago
      At my latitude I'll lose sunlight at 2pm in the middle of winter. I can fix the webcam, I can't fix how much sunlight is available in my locale.
      - Retric 4y ago
        You don’t need sunlight for even indirect lighting.
    - wholinator2 4y ago
      What they're saying is that if you live north enough, you're likely to be working during a time when there _is no sunlight_. A window does nothing when it's dark outside by the time your 4p.m. meeting comes around
      - Retric 4y ago
        It’s still easy to add indirect lighting at night, but you need to cover up southern faction windows in the daytime.
- onetokeoverthe 4y ago
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  > if you just fix the damned lighting? How do I add a new window to my apartment?? Yes, all cameras look good with great natural light. That's not particularly interesting or useful, because we're not always in perfect lighting to compensate for mediocre cameras that've stagnated for 10 years.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  $63 on a C920 Damn that's cheap, where's that price from?
  - criddell 4y ago
    They're $59.99 on Amazon right now.
- woojoo666 4y ago
  What if you're working on the go, eg at a park or one of those coworking spaces. Can't really control the lighting there
- nextlevelwizard 4y ago
  >Why spent time worrying about what a cell phone camera can achieve in poor or uneven lighting if a bog-standard webcam can do a really good job if you just fix the damned lighting? You are just being purposefully an ass. What about on a cloudly day, how does your sun help you then? What about at night? Not to mention most people don't have the luxury to arrange their home to optimize for picture quality on a fucking Zoom call. Yes, you can help a shitty camera with lights, but we could just have good cameras. You can still fiddle with your lights until heat death of universe, but rest of us just want cameras that work even if we have to pay a little bit more.
988747 4y ago
One thing to remember about lightning: take your computer monitor into account :) I have a bright (600 cd HDR) 32-inch monitor. I did a live streaming once (kind of online training) - the lightning was good most of the time, but when I tried to share some bright content on my screen (like a file, or web page with white background) the monitor would be so bright that my whole face would glow like a full moon :). I think next time I will use dark mode for all apps, or reduce screen brightness to minimum.

by jrk 4y ago

logifail 4y ago

> So yes, all things being equal, better lighting helps $63 on a C920, add one window (typically ships free with your house/apartment) plus access to one truly special light source which although it's 93 million miles away you were lucky enough to get a free lifetime subscription to when you arrived on this planet. Why spent time worrying about what a cell phone camera can achieve in poor or uneven lighting if a bog-standard webcam can do a really good job if you just fix the damned lighting?

joe-collins 4y ago
My current apartment has no south windows. The previous unit had none east. Before that, no north. Before that, no south or north windows. "Just" fixing some problems can be a luxury.
- logifail 4y ago
  > "Just" fixing some problems can be a luxury It really needn't be. (Proper) photographers have been dealing with these very same issues for longer than we've all been worrying about how we look on Zoom. Window Light: The Biggest, Bestest Softbox You Already Own: "Let’s say your windows are west-facing and you want to shoot in the afternoon. And you’re really terrified of hard light. Keep thinking of your window as a softbox. You just need what they refer to in film production as a “silk”. The same material (ripstop nylon) that is found on the front of most softboxes can be placed in front of your window to turn hard, late day light into a glowing, golden, majestic light bath for your subject’s face."[0] [0] https://fstoppers.com/education/window-light-biggest-bestest-softbox-you-already-own-143498 https://fstoppers.com/education/window-light-biggest-bestest...
  - SapporoChris 4y ago
    I think I understand your point, under ideal or almost ideal conditions most webcams can work fine. However, most people are not graced with the understanding of lighting and how cameras work. There's lots of opportunity to compensate or at least guide people with better hardware and software. The work done with smartphone cameras is clear evidence of this.
  - Sebb767 4y ago
    Which is a great option, at least if you can plan your Zoom meetings by the correct time for ideal sunlight! Unfortunately, this isn't the case for most people.
  - yunohn 4y ago
    I’m confused why you’re harping on about windows - which cannot be guaranteed in direction, location, size, or number in any house unless you build it yourself. Further, outside of the equatorial region, sunlight is also not guaranteed throughout the day during the year. Clearly, your solution is neither “easy” nor optimal. Glad that it works for you, but it’s not for everyone.
WheatM 4y ago
Imagine the mind blowing privilege of not just having a separate home office, but having being able to design it to yoru exact specifications with a window facing north, and telling people to "just add windows". Some people on here are so out of touch.
- cto_of_antifa 4y ago
bjourne 4y ago
The point of the article is that even a shitty old cell phone handily beats a "mid-range" C920 webcam. Yes, lighting conditions are important to photography, but, as the author demonstrates, cell phone cameras are better even in those scenarios. Furthermore, if you live in northern latitudes you get very little sunlight during the winter so a "window" is not a sufficient solution.
- logifail 4y ago
  > Furthermore, if you live in northern latitudes you get very little sunlight during the winter so a "window" is not a sufficient solution Perhaps I wasn't clear: a North-facing window never gets direct sunlight, but doesn't matter because we're after neutral, even light. Certainly not "direct light", not even "lots of light". Just neutral, even light. It's worked for artists for centuries.
  - chownie 4y ago
    At my latitude I'll lose sunlight at 2pm in the middle of winter. I can fix the webcam, I can't fix how much sunlight is available in my locale.
    - Retric 4y ago
      You don’t need sunlight for even indirect lighting.
  - wholinator2 4y ago
    What they're saying is that if you live north enough, you're likely to be working during a time when there _is no sunlight_. A window does nothing when it's dark outside by the time your 4p.m. meeting comes around
    - Retric 4y ago
      It’s still easy to add indirect lighting at night, but you need to cover up southern faction windows in the daytime.
onetokeoverthe 4y ago
madeofpalk 4y ago
> if you just fix the damned lighting? How do I add a new window to my apartment?? Yes, all cameras look good with great natural light. That's not particularly interesting or useful, because we're not always in perfect lighting to compensate for mediocre cameras that've stagnated for 10 years.
LAC-Tech 4y ago
$63 on a C920 Damn that's cheap, where's that price from?
- criddell 4y ago
  They're $59.99 on Amazon right now.
woojoo666 4y ago
What if you're working on the go, eg at a park or one of those coworking spaces. Can't really control the lighting there
nextlevelwizard 4y ago
>Why spent time worrying about what a cell phone camera can achieve in poor or uneven lighting if a bog-standard webcam can do a really good job if you just fix the damned lighting? You are just being purposefully an ass. What about on a cloudly day, how does your sun help you then? What about at night? Not to mention most people don't have the luxury to arrange their home to optimize for picture quality on a fucking Zoom call. Yes, you can help a shitty camera with lights, but we could just have good cameras. You can still fiddle with your lights until heat death of universe, but rest of us just want cameras that work even if we have to pay a little bit more.

988747 4y ago

One thing to remember about lightning: take your computer monitor into account :) I have a bright (600 cd HDR) 32-inch monitor. I did a live streaming once (kind of online training) - the lightning was good most of the time, but when I tried to share some bright content on my screen (like a file, or web page with white background) the monitor would be so bright that my whole face would glow like a full moon :). I think next time I will use dark mode for all apps, or reduce screen brightness to minimum.