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> But jeez, his politics are pretty insane Are you able to do a steelman of Thiel's politics, where Thiel himself would agree with your characterization? What

> But jeez, his politics are pretty insane Are you able to do a steelman of Thiel's politics, where Thiel himself would agree with your characterization? What are his views that you agree with most? What don't you have any direct evidence of his views for? I'm going to be honest, I can't say I've seen many articles that really try to understand Thiel's politics or intentions. Every article I read I can easily tell who the writer votes for, because there are signs of bias everywhere. I've never voted right, but the continued demonization of those who disagree with whatever is en vogue on the left and the refusal to truly try to understand them is incredibly dispiriting.

cyber_kinetist 4y ago
I've got the gist of Thiel's ideology from this debate (between Graeber and Thiel: "Where did the future go?"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF0cz9OmCGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF0cz9OmCGw ...which really did bring out many weaknesses and contradictions in his ideas. Which was disappointing, since many here on HN praised him as a pretty bright thinker.
boeingUH60 4y ago
First of all, I'll repeat that I'm not an American and neither an expert on (presumably) your country's politics, so this is just my armchair observation. Thiel is funding a new breed of politicians with "hard-right" ideals. The first is Donald Trump [1], which I don't think I need to expatiate following those riots (that was widely used to mock the USA) globally. His, protégé, Blake Masters, is running for the Arizona Senate position (backed by $10 million+ of Thiel's donations [2]). Masters has some unique ideas, such as opposing Roe vs Wade (abortion rights) and expanding gun rights (in his words, "Eliminating or restructuring the ATF, Repealing the National Firearms Act, and Opposing every kind of federal firearms database or gun registry"). You can see them right on his website - https://www.blakemasters.com/ https://www.blakemasters.com/. Also, JD Vance (backed by $10 million+ of Thiel's money [2]). Vance also has some unique ideas, such as promoting claims that Trump lost the election because of voter fraud [3] or suggesting that Biden was intentionally allowing fentanyl to flood the US because it mainly affected the Republican base [4]. You can check his website and see policy ideals similar to Masters' - https://jdvance.com/issues/ https://jdvance.com/issues/. Now, I'm not saying that everything about them is bad (everyone has flaws). I tried my best to use non-biased political resources (Reuters and Politico have a great rep on my end). I don't understand much about American politics, but from the little I know, if I was there, I'd be nothing close to a "leftist", but more like a pro-capitalist "conservative", so I'm not really looking at this stuff from a biased lens. So, from my foreign armchair, I just look at some stuff US politicians say and do (mostly Republicans for unclear reasons) and I'm like, nah dude, that's too extreme... 1- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-thiel-idUSKBN12G0ZH https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-thiel-... 2- https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/17/peter-thiel-senate-megadonor-488799 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/17/peter-thiel-senate-... 3- https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2021/10/vance-spouts-trump-talking-points-on-2020-election-loss/ https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2021/10/vance-spou... 4- https://sports.yahoo.com/j-d-vance-wildly-suggests-021349250.html https://sports.yahoo.com/j-d-vance-wildly-suggests-021349250...
- FFRefresh 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing some personal context. I'll admit, when people use the terms "hard", "extreme", "alt" before a political direction, I don't really know what they're actually signifying in terms of substantive views. I'm still having trouble squaring what his views are from the description (not a demand for more rigor here, just an honest appraisal) here. Sure, Trump was looney/incompetent/corrupt, and JD Vance/Blake Masters have said a few things that we can criticize, but I don't know if those pieces of evidence shed a light on Thiel's actual views. As an example, I voted for Biden/Democrats, but if you were looking at what they say/do (particularly the most controversial things in the media) as the only evidence for my views, you wouldn't understand my positions very well. To share my version of a steelman for Thiel (I'll admit a lot of ignorance here, so anybody please correct me), it seems like there is a major throughline in a lot of what he does around Centralization vs Decentralization. I get the impression he is for Decentralization of governments/power at large. This can show up in national politics as showing support for local nation ideals (as opposed to a more globalist perspective), limiting the scope/size of government, support for federalism, support for cryptocurrencies, support for individual rights/freedoms, support for testing new government models (i.e. Seasteading Institute), pushing back on the entrenched establishment, etc. Is every politician he supports going to follow that playbook directly? I wouldn't expect them to. But the Centralization vs Decentralization dimension seems like something he may be thinking about if I'm reading the tea leaves. About how the individual relates to powerful entities, and what is the best relationship between the individual and the state/power for the future of humanity. If that is in fact what his views are, I don't think they are insane myself. Yes, individual politicians can be wacky/insane, but I think there are a lot of reasonable positions/considerations on both sides that come out of thinking about that broader topic, whether any one politician is truly representing it.
DoctorOW 4y ago
> Are you able to do a steelman of Thiel's politics, where Thiel himself would agree with your characterization? Would someone acting in bad faith ever agree to such a thing? Maybe you could goad him into saying yes once but the right tends to use terms like "strawman" or "silencing" as a thought terminating cliche without any attempt to make clarifications.
- inquirerGeneral 4y ago
  ALERT ALERT! "bad faith" used in a political thread! All your opinions are now null and void.
vehemenz 4y ago
I don't know anything of Thiel's politics besides his support for Trump, but it's difficult to imagine such a person could be a serious thinker or would have any serious political positions.
- celdon25 4y ago
  You could say the same thing (perhaps more appropriately) about Biden, who has no mental faculties. Trump’s platform appeals to those who take domestic issues seriously, full stop. Biden on the other hand appeals to emotion and orange man bad. Which is less serious? Edit: Just because you don't want something to be true doesn't make it untrue.
  - vehemenz 4y ago
    I'm not sure you could. Not without undermining your own point or making false equivalencies, anyway.
  - DoctorOW 4y ago
    Hi there, would you be willing to shoot me an email so I can ask you some more questions?
Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
> I can't say I've seen many articles that really try to understand Thiel's politics or intentions I mean...it's not like there is much to understand. Him, Mercer and Bannon became extremely passionate about getting Trump in the WH and as soon as 2017 came around they lost all the leverage and didn't even try to strongarm Trump into doing whatever they thought was to be done. The 3 men have been extremely relevant in getting Trump elected but were essentially gone by 2017.
- FFRefresh 4y ago
  What is Thiel's platform? Without just leaning on name-dropping? What are his actual views?
  - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
    Whatever they are/were he had 4 years to propel them, but quickly fell out of the inner circle of Trump. He's also all over the place. He claimed that competition is for fools and have to think long and hard to get in a sector without competition....but also said that we should abolish college because people should go with their gut, also somewhat regret the 80s when everybody was high on stimulants

cyber_kinetist 4y ago

I've got the gist of Thiel's ideology from this debate (between Graeber and Thiel: "Where did the future go?"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF0cz9OmCGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF0cz9OmCGw ...which really did bring out many weaknesses and contradictions in his ideas. Which was disappointing, since many here on HN praised him as a pretty bright thinker.

boeingUH60 4y ago

First of all, I'll repeat that I'm not an American and neither an expert on (presumably) your country's politics, so this is just my armchair observation. Thiel is funding a new breed of politicians with "hard-right" ideals. The first is Donald Trump [1], which I don't think I need to expatiate following those riots (that was widely used to mock the USA) globally. His, protégé, Blake Masters, is running for the Arizona Senate position (backed by $10 million+ of Thiel's donations [2]). Masters has some unique ideas, such as opposing Roe vs Wade (abortion rights) and expanding gun rights (in his words, "Eliminating or restructuring the ATF, Repealing the National Firearms Act, and Opposing every kind of federal firearms database or gun registry"). You can see them right on his website - https://www.blakemasters.com/ https://www.blakemasters.com/. Also, JD Vance (backed by $10 million+ of Thiel's money [2]). Vance also has some unique ideas, such as promoting claims that Trump lost the election because of voter fraud [3] or suggesting that Biden was intentionally allowing fentanyl to flood the US because it mainly affected the Republican base [4]. You can check his website and see policy ideals similar to Masters' - https://jdvance.com/issues/ https://jdvance.com/issues/. Now, I'm not saying that everything about them is bad (everyone has flaws). I tried my best to use non-biased political resources (Reuters and Politico have a great rep on my end). I don't understand much about American politics, but from the little I know, if I was there, I'd be nothing close to a "leftist", but more like a pro-capitalist "conservative", so I'm not really looking at this stuff from a biased lens. So, from my foreign armchair, I just look at some stuff US politicians say and do (mostly Republicans for unclear reasons) and I'm like, nah dude, that's too extreme... 1- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-thiel-idUSKBN12G0ZH https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-thiel-... 2- https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/17/peter-thiel-senate-megadonor-488799 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/17/peter-thiel-senate-... 3- https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2021/10/vance-spouts-trump-talking-points-on-2020-election-loss/ https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2021/10/vance-spou... 4- https://sports.yahoo.com/j-d-vance-wildly-suggests-021349250.html https://sports.yahoo.com/j-d-vance-wildly-suggests-021349250...

FFRefresh 4y ago
Thanks for sharing some personal context. I'll admit, when people use the terms "hard", "extreme", "alt" before a political direction, I don't really know what they're actually signifying in terms of substantive views. I'm still having trouble squaring what his views are from the description (not a demand for more rigor here, just an honest appraisal) here. Sure, Trump was looney/incompetent/corrupt, and JD Vance/Blake Masters have said a few things that we can criticize, but I don't know if those pieces of evidence shed a light on Thiel's actual views. As an example, I voted for Biden/Democrats, but if you were looking at what they say/do (particularly the most controversial things in the media) as the only evidence for my views, you wouldn't understand my positions very well. To share my version of a steelman for Thiel (I'll admit a lot of ignorance here, so anybody please correct me), it seems like there is a major throughline in a lot of what he does around Centralization vs Decentralization. I get the impression he is for Decentralization of governments/power at large. This can show up in national politics as showing support for local nation ideals (as opposed to a more globalist perspective), limiting the scope/size of government, support for federalism, support for cryptocurrencies, support for individual rights/freedoms, support for testing new government models (i.e. Seasteading Institute), pushing back on the entrenched establishment, etc. Is every politician he supports going to follow that playbook directly? I wouldn't expect them to. But the Centralization vs Decentralization dimension seems like something he may be thinking about if I'm reading the tea leaves. About how the individual relates to powerful entities, and what is the best relationship between the individual and the state/power for the future of humanity. If that is in fact what his views are, I don't think they are insane myself. Yes, individual politicians can be wacky/insane, but I think there are a lot of reasonable positions/considerations on both sides that come out of thinking about that broader topic, whether any one politician is truly representing it.

DoctorOW 4y ago

> Are you able to do a steelman of Thiel's politics, where Thiel himself would agree with your characterization? Would someone acting in bad faith ever agree to such a thing? Maybe you could goad him into saying yes once but the right tends to use terms like "strawman" or "silencing" as a thought terminating cliche without any attempt to make clarifications.

inquirerGeneral 4y ago
ALERT ALERT! "bad faith" used in a political thread! All your opinions are now null and void.

vehemenz 4y ago

I don't know anything of Thiel's politics besides his support for Trump, but it's difficult to imagine such a person could be a serious thinker or would have any serious political positions.

celdon25 4y ago
You could say the same thing (perhaps more appropriately) about Biden, who has no mental faculties. Trump’s platform appeals to those who take domestic issues seriously, full stop. Biden on the other hand appeals to emotion and orange man bad. Which is less serious? Edit: Just because you don't want something to be true doesn't make it untrue.
- vehemenz 4y ago
  I'm not sure you could. Not without undermining your own point or making false equivalencies, anyway.
- DoctorOW 4y ago
  Hi there, would you be willing to shoot me an email so I can ask you some more questions?

Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago

> I can't say I've seen many articles that really try to understand Thiel's politics or intentions I mean...it's not like there is much to understand. Him, Mercer and Bannon became extremely passionate about getting Trump in the WH and as soon as 2017 came around they lost all the leverage and didn't even try to strongarm Trump into doing whatever they thought was to be done. The 3 men have been extremely relevant in getting Trump elected but were essentially gone by 2017.

FFRefresh 4y ago
What is Thiel's platform? Without just leaning on name-dropping? What are his actual views?
- Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
  Whatever they are/were he had 4 years to propel them, but quickly fell out of the inner circle of Trump. He's also all over the place. He claimed that competition is for fools and have to think long and hard to get in a sector without competition....but also said that we should abolish college because people should go with their gut, also somewhat regret the 80s when everybody was high on stimulants