4 ms·

I've always respected Thiel for his entrepreneurial prowess...But jeez, his politics are pretty insane (Note that I'm not American, but from a faraway land and

I've always respected Thiel for his entrepreneurial prowess...But jeez, his politics are pretty insane (Note that I'm not American, but from a faraway land and nonetheless can sense this from my armchair). The guy seems like a maniac with an aim to get whatever he wants, however he wants, with no care for the external effects.

feet 4y ago
From someone in the US, yes he is insane. We have a large growing far right nationalist movement and its pretty sad
- throwntoday 4y ago
  I'm curious, do you believe far right is the sad part or nationalism? I ask this because naturally I find both the far left and far right equally insane in their convictions (which never stand up to scrutiny). But being against nationalism is a separate issue and seems equally looney to me.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    Both. Nationalism is not the same as patriotism. Patriotism is great. Nationalism breeds Ayn Rand insanity mixed with supremacist views.
    - throwntoday 4y ago
      I believe in putting the needs of my nation, and my countrymen above all else. Is that nationalism? I am not against helping others, but not while there is still a single American suffering. Is that a supremacist view? Basically, remember to put on your oxygen mask before helping others.
      - jamithon 4y ago
        > but not while there is still a single American suffering As there will always be someone somewhere suffering, this just sounds like an excuse not to help others.
      - spywaregorilla 4y ago
        Putting on your oxygen mask before helping others is not a helpful analogy. You do this because if you don't get your own mask on you'll pass out and then both of you will be fucked. It's just the rational choice even if you're benevolent and want to help others. If an american is thirsty and a canadian is bleeding out and you prefer to get the american some water, then that's a pretty dick move. If, say, all of europe is facing a severe energy crisis because of a war with russia against which the United States already has a significant interest; and you oppose sending european allies gas supplies because it'll raise prices at the pump for americans; then that's a pretty dick move. If you say the US should drop out of NATO because it pays the most and it can probably defend itself, that's a pretty dick move. It is complicated, of course. But it ends with countries justifying their invasion and genocide of other countries because they have something your own country wants. Or maybe just because they think they're the best and nobody should exist but them. It'd be nice if more people were interested in being a good global citizen rather than grinding against the nash equilibrium at every step. A lot of it is supremacism. And a lot of it takes another leap of ugliness saying whose a "true {country}ian", which becomes a racial, linguistic, or religious thing. I don't think nationalism is particularly overrepresented in america. I do think radicalism individualism where you just can't comprehend doing things that benefit your neighbors over yourself because a cooperative society is stronger as a whole is somewhat uniquely american. and it's embarrassing.
        throwntoday 4y ago
        > I do think radicalism individualism where you just can't comprehend doing things that benefit your neighbors over yourself because a cooperative society is stronger as a whole is somewhat uniquely american My neighbors are American. I'm not sure how you don't see the argument you're making is just the globalist version of mine. A lot of your argument seems to be rooted in idealism. I don't want my country to collapse because we were so arrogant to think we could save everyone. > You do this because if you don't get your own mask on you'll pass out and then both of you will be fucked. Yes, that was my point. What do you think will happen if America is trying to help it's allies while it is bleeding out?
        4y ago
- nix23 4y ago
  Maybe stop having a duopoly politic, and give people more chances then to choose between pest an cholera would help more then being against "far right" and with that automatically have to vote for democrats, but hey i think both democrats and republicans love that, the old ping pong.
FFRefresh 4y ago
> But jeez, his politics are pretty insane Are you able to do a steelman of Thiel's politics, where Thiel himself would agree with your characterization? What are his views that you agree with most? What don't you have any direct evidence of his views for? I'm going to be honest, I can't say I've seen many articles that really try to understand Thiel's politics or intentions. Every article I read I can easily tell who the writer votes for, because there are signs of bias everywhere. I've never voted right, but the continued demonization of those who disagree with whatever is en vogue on the left and the refusal to truly try to understand them is incredibly dispiriting.
- cyber_kinetist 4y ago
  I've got the gist of Thiel's ideology from this debate (between Graeber and Thiel: "Where did the future go?"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF0cz9OmCGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF0cz9OmCGw ...which really did bring out many weaknesses and contradictions in his ideas. Which was disappointing, since many here on HN praised him as a pretty bright thinker.
- boeingUH60 4y ago
  First of all, I'll repeat that I'm not an American and neither an expert on (presumably) your country's politics, so this is just my armchair observation. Thiel is funding a new breed of politicians with "hard-right" ideals. The first is Donald Trump [1], which I don't think I need to expatiate following those riots (that was widely used to mock the USA) globally. His, protégé, Blake Masters, is running for the Arizona Senate position (backed by $10 million+ of Thiel's donations [2]). Masters has some unique ideas, such as opposing Roe vs Wade (abortion rights) and expanding gun rights (in his words, "Eliminating or restructuring the ATF, Repealing the National Firearms Act, and Opposing every kind of federal firearms database or gun registry"). You can see them right on his website - https://www.blakemasters.com/ https://www.blakemasters.com/. Also, JD Vance (backed by $10 million+ of Thiel's money [2]). Vance also has some unique ideas, such as promoting claims that Trump lost the election because of voter fraud [3] or suggesting that Biden was intentionally allowing fentanyl to flood the US because it mainly affected the Republican base [4]. You can check his website and see policy ideals similar to Masters' - https://jdvance.com/issues/ https://jdvance.com/issues/. Now, I'm not saying that everything about them is bad (everyone has flaws). I tried my best to use non-biased political resources (Reuters and Politico have a great rep on my end). I don't understand much about American politics, but from the little I know, if I was there, I'd be nothing close to a "leftist", but more like a pro-capitalist "conservative", so I'm not really looking at this stuff from a biased lens. So, from my foreign armchair, I just look at some stuff US politicians say and do (mostly Republicans for unclear reasons) and I'm like, nah dude, that's too extreme... 1- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-thiel-idUSKBN12G0ZH https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-thiel-... 2- https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/17/peter-thiel-senate-megadonor-488799 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/17/peter-thiel-senate-... 3- https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2021/10/vance-spouts-trump-talking-points-on-2020-election-loss/ https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2021/10/vance-spou... 4- https://sports.yahoo.com/j-d-vance-wildly-suggests-021349250.html https://sports.yahoo.com/j-d-vance-wildly-suggests-021349250...

feet 4y ago

From someone in the US, yes he is insane. We have a large growing far right nationalist movement and its pretty sad

throwntoday 4y ago
I'm curious, do you believe far right is the sad part or nationalism? I ask this because naturally I find both the far left and far right equally insane in their convictions (which never stand up to scrutiny). But being against nationalism is a separate issue and seems equally looney to me.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Both. Nationalism is not the same as patriotism. Patriotism is great. Nationalism breeds Ayn Rand insanity mixed with supremacist views.
  - throwntoday 4y ago
    I believe in putting the needs of my nation, and my countrymen above all else. Is that nationalism? I am not against helping others, but not while there is still a single American suffering. Is that a supremacist view? Basically, remember to put on your oxygen mask before helping others.
    - jamithon 4y ago
      > but not while there is still a single American suffering As there will always be someone somewhere suffering, this just sounds like an excuse not to help others.
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      Putting on your oxygen mask before helping others is not a helpful analogy. You do this because if you don't get your own mask on you'll pass out and then both of you will be fucked. It's just the rational choice even if you're benevolent and want to help others. If an american is thirsty and a canadian is bleeding out and you prefer to get the american some water, then that's a pretty dick move. If, say, all of europe is facing a severe energy crisis because of a war with russia against which the United States already has a significant interest; and you oppose sending european allies gas supplies because it'll raise prices at the pump for americans; then that's a pretty dick move. If you say the US should drop out of NATO because it pays the most and it can probably defend itself, that's a pretty dick move. It is complicated, of course. But it ends with countries justifying their invasion and genocide of other countries because they have something your own country wants. Or maybe just because they think they're the best and nobody should exist but them. It'd be nice if more people were interested in being a good global citizen rather than grinding against the nash equilibrium at every step. A lot of it is supremacism. And a lot of it takes another leap of ugliness saying whose a "true {country}ian", which becomes a racial, linguistic, or religious thing. I don't think nationalism is particularly overrepresented in america. I do think radicalism individualism where you just can't comprehend doing things that benefit your neighbors over yourself because a cooperative society is stronger as a whole is somewhat uniquely american. and it's embarrassing.
      - throwntoday 4y ago
        > I do think radicalism individualism where you just can't comprehend doing things that benefit your neighbors over yourself because a cooperative society is stronger as a whole is somewhat uniquely american My neighbors are American. I'm not sure how you don't see the argument you're making is just the globalist version of mine. A lot of your argument seems to be rooted in idealism. I don't want my country to collapse because we were so arrogant to think we could save everyone. > You do this because if you don't get your own mask on you'll pass out and then both of you will be fucked. Yes, that was my point. What do you think will happen if America is trying to help it's allies while it is bleeding out?
        4y ago
nix23 4y ago
Maybe stop having a duopoly politic, and give people more chances then to choose between pest an cholera would help more then being against "far right" and with that automatically have to vote for democrats, but hey i think both democrats and republicans love that, the old ping pong.

FFRefresh 4y ago

> But jeez, his politics are pretty insane Are you able to do a steelman of Thiel's politics, where Thiel himself would agree with your characterization? What are his views that you agree with most? What don't you have any direct evidence of his views for? I'm going to be honest, I can't say I've seen many articles that really try to understand Thiel's politics or intentions. Every article I read I can easily tell who the writer votes for, because there are signs of bias everywhere. I've never voted right, but the continued demonization of those who disagree with whatever is en vogue on the left and the refusal to truly try to understand them is incredibly dispiriting.

cyber_kinetist 4y ago
I've got the gist of Thiel's ideology from this debate (between Graeber and Thiel: "Where did the future go?"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF0cz9OmCGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF0cz9OmCGw ...which really did bring out many weaknesses and contradictions in his ideas. Which was disappointing, since many here on HN praised him as a pretty bright thinker.
boeingUH60 4y ago
First of all, I'll repeat that I'm not an American and neither an expert on (presumably) your country's politics, so this is just my armchair observation. Thiel is funding a new breed of politicians with "hard-right" ideals. The first is Donald Trump [1], which I don't think I need to expatiate following those riots (that was widely used to mock the USA) globally. His, protégé, Blake Masters, is running for the Arizona Senate position (backed by $10 million+ of Thiel's donations [2]). Masters has some unique ideas, such as opposing Roe vs Wade (abortion rights) and expanding gun rights (in his words, "Eliminating or restructuring the ATF, Repealing the National Firearms Act, and Opposing every kind of federal firearms database or gun registry"). You can see them right on his website - https://www.blakemasters.com/ https://www.blakemasters.com/. Also, JD Vance (backed by $10 million+ of Thiel's money [2]). Vance also has some unique ideas, such as promoting claims that Trump lost the election because of voter fraud [3] or suggesting that Biden was intentionally allowing fentanyl to flood the US because it mainly affected the Republican base [4]. You can check his website and see policy ideals similar to Masters' - https://jdvance.com/issues/ https://jdvance.com/issues/. Now, I'm not saying that everything about them is bad (everyone has flaws). I tried my best to use non-biased political resources (Reuters and Politico have a great rep on my end). I don't understand much about American politics, but from the little I know, if I was there, I'd be nothing close to a "leftist", but more like a pro-capitalist "conservative", so I'm not really looking at this stuff from a biased lens. So, from my foreign armchair, I just look at some stuff US politicians say and do (mostly Republicans for unclear reasons) and I'm like, nah dude, that's too extreme... 1- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-thiel-idUSKBN12G0ZH https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-thiel-... 2- https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/17/peter-thiel-senate-megadonor-488799 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/17/peter-thiel-senate-... 3- https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2021/10/vance-spouts-trump-talking-points-on-2020-election-loss/ https://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2021/10/vance-spou... 4- https://sports.yahoo.com/j-d-vance-wildly-suggests-021349250.html https://sports.yahoo.com/j-d-vance-wildly-suggests-021349250...