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Am I the only one increasingly frustrated with macOS's naming scheme? I have no idea what the latest version is. Ubuntu versioning gets this right; you can pars

Am I the only one increasingly frustrated with macOS's naming scheme? I have no idea what the latest version is. Ubuntu versioning gets this right; you can parse their codenames alphabetically to derive the semantic version. But Apple's heuristic here seems to be "throw a dart at a map of California".

Ruq 4y ago
I just miss the Big Cat names.
ubercore 4y ago
Hasn't it been this way the whole time? Why is your frustration increasing?
- itg 4y ago
  I imagine as the number of versions increase, there is more tracking you have to do when someone doesn't explicitly mention the version number.
  - saurik 4y ago
    That's definitely my issue: over the years, we have accumulated more and more and more of these names. When someone talks about iOS 4 or iOS 7 in some article I am reading, I know what they are talking about and the extent to which the version matters; but, when someone talks about macOS Gaviota, I have to think "wait, was that the one that just came out, or was that one of the ones I haven't had to think about in a decade? oh shit... maybe it's the one that got announced today and I just haven't heard the name yet?!". (That said, I will also note that frustration is not inherently constant even when something is truly static: sometimes you get used to something over time and it stops bothering you, while other times it slowly drives you mad.)
- guerrilla 4y ago
  Haven't you not been getting food this whole time? Why is your frustration increasing?
  - russelldjimmy 4y ago
    Help me understand how being starved for food is analogous to having OS version names that don’t reflect the order of OS releases.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      The irritant becomes with as time goes on as long as its present. More and more meaningless names to memorize...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jl6 4y ago
Ubuntu has both a codename and a version number. macOS has a version number too (Ventura is 13) but Apple frustratingly don’t use it prominently.
- jen20 4y ago
  The version number and build number are on the "About this Mac" screen and in the output of `sw_vers` - where else would you like to see it used?
  - jl6 4y ago
    In marketing material, such as here: https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/macos-ventura-preview/ https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/macos-ventura-preview/
    - jen20 4y ago
      I personally doubt you'll ever see that, though it's a possibility since iOS uses version numbers.
- rzzzt 4y ago
  Alliterating Antlion
giantrobot 4y ago
It wasn't much better with big cats. There were two sort of semantically related releases, Leopard/Snow Leopard and Lion/Mountain Lion. Of those on the Leopard/Snow Leopard I thought made sense as Snow Leopard was a "oh shit fix all the bugs" release. SL was the first full OS release after the Intel transition and 64-bit kernel.
- bangonkeyboard 4y ago
  I can picture a big cat in my mind. That helped to peg OS X releases and enabled me to mentally distinguish and order them. I can't picture "Monterey" or "Ventura" or any other macOS names, they have no meaning to me.
  - themadturk 4y ago
    Big Sur, Monterey, Yosemite, El Capitan, Catalina... all worked for me because I've either been there or there was a screensaver/wallpaper to associate them with their locales. I really don't know a thing about Ventura.
  - Macha 4y ago
    Ventura has a meaning to me.... Ace Ventura, a cartoon from my childhood about a egotistical questionably competent detective. I'm not sure that's the image Apple wants to give off though...
    - rsfinn 4y ago
      "Ventura Highway, in the sunshine..." [0] I may be dating myself somewhat here. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventura_Highway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventura_Highway
    - mixmastamyk 4y ago
      Sunny beach town, Spanish mission, etc.
      - philistine 4y ago
dagmx 4y ago
The marketing names for macOS and OSX have always been random other than having a general theme to it. The OS in most cases just refers to itself by the number and is what it will show in a lot of scenarios in addition to the marketing name.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > The marketing names for macOS and OSX have always been random other than having a general theme to it. Not entirely true: two of the cats were name variations of their predecessors to express an intent of limited end-user / feature updates and a focus on refinement (even though taxonomically the cats have basically no relationships outside of being cats, mountain lions aren’t even in the same genus as lions)
  - dagmx 4y ago
    That's fair. In a similar vein, there was also Sierra and High Sierra.
  - Tsiklon 4y ago
    In a sense they sort of did continue this style of convention with Yosemite and El Capitan (the latter being in the former), Sierra and High Sierra. It’s only in the last few releases that the dart board has come out
    - rsfinn 4y ago
      Since they moved macOS off version 10.x (finally), "Apple's crack marketing team" left the desert (Mojave) for the Pacific coast. Unfortunately, they didn't plan the trip carefully, so they started at Big Sur with macOS 11, went north to Monterey for macOS 12, then turned around and headed back south to Ventura for macOS 13. At least those locations are in alphabetical order -- but with Ventura they seem to have painted themselves into a corner. So will macOS 14 be further south (Carlsbad?) or back north (Eureka?) -- stay tuned...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
duped 4y ago
Ventura is MacOS 13.0.0.
ksec 4y ago
Yes. In Big Cat era, you could at least memorise those names which have some meaning to nearly everyone around the world, and it always had a version number. Mac OS X 10.7 "Lion" – 2010 Mac OS X 10.8 "Mountain Lion" – 2012 Now it is only a name I guess only people in US / California will know or understand. The same joke From Apple's "crack marketing team" and played out by Craig Federighi for something like 10 years[1]. But I guess that is post Steve Jobs's Apple for you. [1] Just guessing since I remember they started using this line after Forstall left.
- muterad_murilax 4y ago
  Small correction: Mac OS X 10.7 Lion was released in 2011. Also, there's no "Mac" in OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion.
- ntoskrnl 4y ago
  Let's go back to cats. Since macOS is becoming more and more like iOS, we don't have to limit ourselves to big cats anymore. Small cats are on the table too. There's gotta be at least 100 cat breeds, that should last us a while.
eknkc 4y ago
Just use years. You are already releasing shit yearly. Name it macOS 22. These places mean nothing to me.
- philistine 4y ago
  The strength of the California brand across the globe is crazy good. It’s all a bit of marketing.
  - native_samples 4y ago
    I think you overestimate the knowledge most people have of California. I've been to Cali a bunch of times and none of the names they picked mean anything to me except Big Sur, but that's pretty obscure. I wouldn't expect anyone around me to know what or where it is unless they happened to be really big into the tech scene. US tech firms have a long history of using US place names as code names for operating system releases. Windows 95 was Chicago, if I recall correctly.
tannhaeuser 4y ago
Ah thx, was thinking about Lino Ventura so a place in Italy I guess; could be worse eg Ponte Vecchio
ranman 4y ago
nodejs has joined the conversation
vincent-manis 4y ago
Future versions will be named Bakersfield, Weed, and Needles, not to mention Oxnard?

Ruq 4y ago

I just miss the Big Cat names.

ubercore 4y ago

Hasn't it been this way the whole time? Why is your frustration increasing?

itg 4y ago
I imagine as the number of versions increase, there is more tracking you have to do when someone doesn't explicitly mention the version number.
- saurik 4y ago
  That's definitely my issue: over the years, we have accumulated more and more and more of these names. When someone talks about iOS 4 or iOS 7 in some article I am reading, I know what they are talking about and the extent to which the version matters; but, when someone talks about macOS Gaviota, I have to think "wait, was that the one that just came out, or was that one of the ones I haven't had to think about in a decade? oh shit... maybe it's the one that got announced today and I just haven't heard the name yet?!". (That said, I will also note that frustration is not inherently constant even when something is truly static: sometimes you get used to something over time and it stops bothering you, while other times it slowly drives you mad.)
guerrilla 4y ago
Haven't you not been getting food this whole time? Why is your frustration increasing?
- russelldjimmy 4y ago
  Help me understand how being starved for food is analogous to having OS version names that don’t reflect the order of OS releases.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    The irritant becomes with as time goes on as long as its present. More and more meaningless names to memorize...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

jl6 4y ago

Ubuntu has both a codename and a version number. macOS has a version number too (Ventura is 13) but Apple frustratingly don’t use it prominently.

jen20 4y ago
The version number and build number are on the "About this Mac" screen and in the output of `sw_vers` - where else would you like to see it used?
- jl6 4y ago
  In marketing material, such as here: https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/macos-ventura-preview/ https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/macos-ventura-preview/
  - jen20 4y ago
    I personally doubt you'll ever see that, though it's a possibility since iOS uses version numbers.
rzzzt 4y ago
Alliterating Antlion

giantrobot 4y ago

It wasn't much better with big cats. There were two sort of semantically related releases, Leopard/Snow Leopard and Lion/Mountain Lion. Of those on the Leopard/Snow Leopard I thought made sense as Snow Leopard was a "oh shit fix all the bugs" release. SL was the first full OS release after the Intel transition and 64-bit kernel.

bangonkeyboard 4y ago
I can picture a big cat in my mind. That helped to peg OS X releases and enabled me to mentally distinguish and order them. I can't picture "Monterey" or "Ventura" or any other macOS names, they have no meaning to me.
- themadturk 4y ago
  Big Sur, Monterey, Yosemite, El Capitan, Catalina... all worked for me because I've either been there or there was a screensaver/wallpaper to associate them with their locales. I really don't know a thing about Ventura.
- Macha 4y ago
  Ventura has a meaning to me.... Ace Ventura, a cartoon from my childhood about a egotistical questionably competent detective. I'm not sure that's the image Apple wants to give off though...
  - rsfinn 4y ago
    "Ventura Highway, in the sunshine..." [0] I may be dating myself somewhat here. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventura_Highway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventura_Highway
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
    Sunny beach town, Spanish mission, etc.
    - philistine 4y ago

dagmx 4y ago

The marketing names for macOS and OSX have always been random other than having a general theme to it. The OS in most cases just refers to itself by the number and is what it will show in a lot of scenarios in addition to the marketing name.

masklinn 4y ago
> The marketing names for macOS and OSX have always been random other than having a general theme to it. Not entirely true: two of the cats were name variations of their predecessors to express an intent of limited end-user / feature updates and a focus on refinement (even though taxonomically the cats have basically no relationships outside of being cats, mountain lions aren’t even in the same genus as lions)
- dagmx 4y ago
  That's fair. In a similar vein, there was also Sierra and High Sierra.
- Tsiklon 4y ago
  In a sense they sort of did continue this style of convention with Yosemite and El Capitan (the latter being in the former), Sierra and High Sierra. It’s only in the last few releases that the dart board has come out
  - rsfinn 4y ago
    Since they moved macOS off version 10.x (finally), "Apple's crack marketing team" left the desert (Mojave) for the Pacific coast. Unfortunately, they didn't plan the trip carefully, so they started at Big Sur with macOS 11, went north to Monterey for macOS 12, then turned around and headed back south to Ventura for macOS 13. At least those locations are in alphabetical order -- but with Ventura they seem to have painted themselves into a corner. So will macOS 14 be further south (Carlsbad?) or back north (Eureka?) -- stay tuned...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

duped 4y ago

Ventura is MacOS 13.0.0.

ksec 4y ago

Yes. In Big Cat era, you could at least memorise those names which have some meaning to nearly everyone around the world, and it always had a version number. Mac OS X 10.7 "Lion" – 2010 Mac OS X 10.8 "Mountain Lion" – 2012 Now it is only a name I guess only people in US / California will know or understand. The same joke From Apple's "crack marketing team" and played out by Craig Federighi for something like 10 years[1]. But I guess that is post Steve Jobs's Apple for you. [1] Just guessing since I remember they started using this line after Forstall left.

muterad_murilax 4y ago
Small correction: Mac OS X 10.7 Lion was released in 2011. Also, there's no "Mac" in OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion.
ntoskrnl 4y ago
Let's go back to cats. Since macOS is becoming more and more like iOS, we don't have to limit ourselves to big cats anymore. Small cats are on the table too. There's gotta be at least 100 cat breeds, that should last us a while.

eknkc 4y ago

Just use years. You are already releasing shit yearly. Name it macOS 22. These places mean nothing to me.

philistine 4y ago
The strength of the California brand across the globe is crazy good. It’s all a bit of marketing.
- native_samples 4y ago
  I think you overestimate the knowledge most people have of California. I've been to Cali a bunch of times and none of the names they picked mean anything to me except Big Sur, but that's pretty obscure. I wouldn't expect anyone around me to know what or where it is unless they happened to be really big into the tech scene. US tech firms have a long history of using US place names as code names for operating system releases. Windows 95 was Chicago, if I recall correctly.

tannhaeuser 4y ago

Ah thx, was thinking about Lino Ventura so a place in Italy I guess; could be worse eg Ponte Vecchio

ranman 4y ago

nodejs has joined the conversation

vincent-manis 4y ago

Future versions will be named Bakersfield, Weed, and Needles, not to mention Oxnard?