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That's interesting or telling, because if you read what I posted carefully, I was not insinuating anything about your evaluation. Instead, the point was being

by Tozen 4y ago

That's interesting or telling, because if you read what I posted carefully, I was not insinuating anything about your evaluation. Instead, the point was being made that you probably don't want to be associated with an old evaluation from 3 years ago, which is falsely accusing V of being vaporware, and where the author and the developer of V clearly have beefs with each other.

xena 4y ago
Good news: I'm never going to write about V again: https://xeiaso.net/blog/against-toxicity-programming-languages https://xeiaso.net/blog/against-toxicity-programming-languag...
- Ta2000 4y ago
  Well if you really felt that way I think you'd take any toxic programming articles down. They are etched into your GitHub at this point, so people will still reference them if eager... But at least taking that action of pulling such posts off your website will speak volumes about your character and standing by your words. Otherwise it's just more lip-service; not much different than Alex's lip-service you draw attention to.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  I don't see how that follows? That blog post basically says "don't be toxic about languages". Unless you're using a much broader definition of "toxic" than I'd expect, that doesn't mean you can't write about languages, including fair critiques and even comparisons. I mean, take... "old school" PHP. By all accounts, PHP used to have a lot of sharp edges (in the sense that it was easy to "cut yourself" on it and accidentally do something bad). This was a legitimate, valid problem. It didn't mean that PHP was irredeemably bad, it didn't mean that a dev was A Bad Programmer for writing PHP, but it was true. You can discuss languages, even comparing them to others and pointing out flaws where they exist, without being "toxic" about it.
  - xena 4y ago
    A lot of that post is actually me wanting to be sure that my legacy isn't one of perceived toxicity. When you are in as many minority groups as I am, then you end up becoming an unpaid existential ambassador and you need to be hyper careful to not look like an asshole or do things that could possibly make you look like an asshole because people will assume that being an asshole is a representative sample of those groups. It is not, but logic is not this species' strong suit. Plus, writing about how V is outright lying in its documentation gets boring because it's too easy. There's no real nuance or the like to it. It's someone overpromising and underdelivering, and then you also get the V cult going after you and sending so much hatemail. It's not worth it.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      Okay, fair; those are good reasons. I don't think those fall under the "toxic" label, but they stand on their own regardless. (Not meant as an attack. I suspect that I might be splitting hairs too finely here; I can be a little overenthusiastic about terminology. If so, sorry.)
    - delian66 4y ago
      Hate mail? Really? Care to post an example?
      - ghusbands 4y ago
        Hate mail is fairly typical in these circumstances. So is people asking for evidence. The possible next stages are also predictable: 1. They don't post it, and get accused of lying. 2. They post one of the tamer examples, and get accused of overreacting to nothing. 3. They post a median example, and get told that people reacting with vigour is normal and it's not about them. 4. They post a very strong example, hurting some readers and get responses claiming that you clearly can't take threats at face value. 5. They get accused of making it up, anyway. 6. They don't include personal details, so you can't do anything, anyway. 7. They include personal details and get accused of doxxing or making it personal. There's just no good outcome from your request.
- pwdisswordfish9 4y ago
  Implying here that any post about V is necessarily going to be toxic, because there aren’t any nice things to be said about it?
  - maleldil 4y ago
    Any post criticising V is seen as toxic by their supporters, apparently. You can see many examples of this in this thread.
theamk 4y ago
What do you mean "falsely accusing"? Looks like Xe's blog was correct, V was vaporware back than. According to this post, it still kinda is.. At least the most interesting parts like unique memory management is 100% vaporware.
- amedvednikov 4y ago
  It wasn't vaporware back then, it isn't now. Here's a 1.5 year old demo of V's autofree working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmB8ea8uLsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmB8ea8uLsM
  - vlang1dot0 4y ago
    Your demo includes code that uses manual memory management because of autofree bugs. https://github.com/vlang/ved/blob/9b85e6291c9fe9135db1e300de6a1349dd5f1e6a/ved.v#L660 https://github.com/vlang/ved/blob/9b85e6291c9fe9135db1e300de...
  - super_flanker 4y ago
    Again!! Same video you've been throwing on whoever asks about "autofree", knowing very well that it doesn't work. I asked this question before and was banned on discord, do you have control flow graph analysis anywhere in V? If not, how do you suppose your autofree engine would work flawlessly?
    - amedvednikov 4y ago
      Nobody bans for questions. And the video I posted proves that it works. Keeping saying "it doesn't work" is ridiculous.
    - amedvednikov 4y ago
      Also, we now have an operating system Vinix, which uses autofree. Does that work as a proof for you or is that also not enough?
      - 4y ago
super_flanker 4y ago
And how did you conclude that author is "falsely" making any accusation? Is it similar to your last claim (1) that V doesn't have "null" (which has been debunked)? (1): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31084446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31084446

by Tozen 4y ago

xena 4y ago

Good news: I'm never going to write about V again: https://xeiaso.net/blog/against-toxicity-programming-languages https://xeiaso.net/blog/against-toxicity-programming-languag...

Ta2000 4y ago
Well if you really felt that way I think you'd take any toxic programming articles down. They are etched into your GitHub at this point, so people will still reference them if eager... But at least taking that action of pulling such posts off your website will speak volumes about your character and standing by your words. Otherwise it's just more lip-service; not much different than Alex's lip-service you draw attention to.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
I don't see how that follows? That blog post basically says "don't be toxic about languages". Unless you're using a much broader definition of "toxic" than I'd expect, that doesn't mean you can't write about languages, including fair critiques and even comparisons. I mean, take... "old school" PHP. By all accounts, PHP used to have a lot of sharp edges (in the sense that it was easy to "cut yourself" on it and accidentally do something bad). This was a legitimate, valid problem. It didn't mean that PHP was irredeemably bad, it didn't mean that a dev was A Bad Programmer for writing PHP, but it was true. You can discuss languages, even comparing them to others and pointing out flaws where they exist, without being "toxic" about it.
- xena 4y ago
  A lot of that post is actually me wanting to be sure that my legacy isn't one of perceived toxicity. When you are in as many minority groups as I am, then you end up becoming an unpaid existential ambassador and you need to be hyper careful to not look like an asshole or do things that could possibly make you look like an asshole because people will assume that being an asshole is a representative sample of those groups. It is not, but logic is not this species' strong suit. Plus, writing about how V is outright lying in its documentation gets boring because it's too easy. There's no real nuance or the like to it. It's someone overpromising and underdelivering, and then you also get the V cult going after you and sending so much hatemail. It's not worth it.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    Okay, fair; those are good reasons. I don't think those fall under the "toxic" label, but they stand on their own regardless. (Not meant as an attack. I suspect that I might be splitting hairs too finely here; I can be a little overenthusiastic about terminology. If so, sorry.)
  - delian66 4y ago
    Hate mail? Really? Care to post an example?
    - ghusbands 4y ago
      Hate mail is fairly typical in these circumstances. So is people asking for evidence. The possible next stages are also predictable: 1. They don't post it, and get accused of lying. 2. They post one of the tamer examples, and get accused of overreacting to nothing. 3. They post a median example, and get told that people reacting with vigour is normal and it's not about them. 4. They post a very strong example, hurting some readers and get responses claiming that you clearly can't take threats at face value. 5. They get accused of making it up, anyway. 6. They don't include personal details, so you can't do anything, anyway. 7. They include personal details and get accused of doxxing or making it personal. There's just no good outcome from your request.
pwdisswordfish9 4y ago
Implying here that any post about V is necessarily going to be toxic, because there aren’t any nice things to be said about it?
- maleldil 4y ago
  Any post criticising V is seen as toxic by their supporters, apparently. You can see many examples of this in this thread.

theamk 4y ago

What do you mean "falsely accusing"? Looks like Xe's blog was correct, V was vaporware back than. According to this post, it still kinda is.. At least the most interesting parts like unique memory management is 100% vaporware.

amedvednikov 4y ago
It wasn't vaporware back then, it isn't now. Here's a 1.5 year old demo of V's autofree working: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmB8ea8uLsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmB8ea8uLsM
- vlang1dot0 4y ago
  Your demo includes code that uses manual memory management because of autofree bugs. https://github.com/vlang/ved/blob/9b85e6291c9fe9135db1e300de6a1349dd5f1e6a/ved.v#L660 https://github.com/vlang/ved/blob/9b85e6291c9fe9135db1e300de...
- super_flanker 4y ago
  Again!! Same video you've been throwing on whoever asks about "autofree", knowing very well that it doesn't work. I asked this question before and was banned on discord, do you have control flow graph analysis anywhere in V? If not, how do you suppose your autofree engine would work flawlessly?
  - amedvednikov 4y ago
    Nobody bans for questions. And the video I posted proves that it works. Keeping saying "it doesn't work" is ridiculous.
  - amedvednikov 4y ago
    Also, we now have an operating system Vinix, which uses autofree. Does that work as a proof for you or is that also not enough?
    - 4y ago

super_flanker 4y ago

And how did you conclude that author is "falsely" making any accusation? Is it similar to your last claim (1) that V doesn't have "null" (which has been debunked)? (1): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31084446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31084446