11 ms·

Christine Dodrill's early assessment of the language might be of interest here: https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporwa

by smcl 4y ago

Christine Dodrill's early assessment of the language might be of interest here: https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://xeiaso.net/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 She doesn't pull any punches, but I think she was quite prescient in capturing the vibe of the project.

Seirdy 4y ago
Xe is phasing out that name in favor of "Xe". Xer domain name change was a part of that shift.
- smcl 4y ago
  Ah I'm sorry, I hadn't checked the website in a little while. I now see there's a redirect and that there is a different name in use.
- umvi 4y ago
  Is 'Xe' the name or the preferred pronoun of the person in question? Is this like Latinx but race neutral? Gender identity accommodations seem to get more complex and confusing by the month...
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    Name, at least that's my interpretation from looking at her Contact Me page: > Copyright 2012-2022 Xe Iaso (Christine Dodrill). https://xeiaso.net/contact https://xeiaso.net/contact [correction] on their GitHub page I see: Please call me (order of preference): Xe/xer, They/them or She/her please. [edit] obscure to have your pronoun also be your name (or maybe your title?). Or maybe it is all just satire, given: "I am an ordained minister with the Church of the Latter-day Dude. This allows me to officiate religious ceremonies in at least the United States." - https://dudeism.com https://dudeism.com
    - xena 4y ago
      To be honest having a person's name be the same as their nominative case pronoun is kind of cool from a whole different perspective than you normally get to see. By doing this experiment I get to see how bad of an idea it is to do that. So far the xe/xer pronouns don't seem to stick as well, but it looks cool so I'm gonna keep up the experiment. I'm also quite seriously an ordained minister.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - andsoitis 4y ago
        :-)
      - shakow 4y ago
        > To be honest having a person's name be the same as their nominative case pronoun is kind of cool The whole point of a person's name is to sufficiently differentiate them from the other persons. Using pronoun as name (or vice versa) just totally negates this goal.
        xena 4y ago
        To be fair, the name came first. Then I found out it conflicted with people's pronouns and I sat on the idea for a while. Now I'm throwing science at the wall to see what sticks, and this is a fairly amusing experiment. So I'm gonna keep it going.
        smcl 4y ago
        I like it!
  - rvz 4y ago
    Who gives. Just use 'they' or 'them', or whatever. It is a universal catch all, gender neutral, i18n inclusivity conformant, ISO 69420 compliant, race neutral, etc. At this point, all of it is basically designed to further confuse and only create a very monthly chaotic outcome for everyone.
    - spottyn 4y ago
    - escape_goat 4y ago
      Xe has been in use as a gender neutral pronoun for nearly thirty years. I, a startlingly ordinary person, was familiar with it as early as the late 90s.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - xena 4y ago
    Why not both?
mawfig 4y ago
Thanks for linking Xe's blog here! It's a few years old and I've seen a lot of comments on HN that suggest V has improved significantly since 2019 so I thought it might be worth looking into for myself and writing down a review of what I found.
- Tozen 4y ago
  - mawfig 4y ago
    Every evaluation in my blog is fully reproducible from the version of V I linked to and I've included all the source code used as well. My post stands on it's own. Instead of insinuating I'm some kind of competitor or have a personal agenda, I would encourage you to respond to the actual points raised in my post.
    - Tozen 4y ago
      That's interesting or telling, because if you read what I posted carefully, I was not insinuating anything about your evaluation. Instead, the point was being made that you probably don't want to be associated with an old evaluation from 3 years ago, which is falsely accusing V of being vaporware, and where the author and the developer of V clearly have beefs with each other.
      - xena 4y ago
        Good news: I'm never going to write about V again: https://xeiaso.net/blog/against-toxicity-programming-languages https://xeiaso.net/blog/against-toxicity-programming-languag...
        Ta2000 4y ago
        Well if you really felt that way I think you'd take any toxic programming articles down. They are etched into your GitHub at this point, so people will still reference them if eager... But at least taking that action of pulling such posts off your website will speak volumes about your character and standing by your words. Otherwise it's just more lip-service; not much different than Alex's lip-service you draw attention to.
Tozen 4y ago
Why in the world do competitors of this programming language insist on dragging out evaluations from 3 years ago, which state that V is vaporware and before the language was even released? This is 2022, not 2019, and we are talking a hundred releases later (https://github.com/vlang/v/releases https://github.com/vlang/v/releases). At least stick to the current evaluation (or attack), which is more relevant, and make points from there. But, keep in mind that these attacks are on a young language that isn't 1.0 yet, so even with this we are talking about a moving target. The language is still evolving.
- faitswulff 4y ago
  I don't have a horse in this race, but when a language makes present-tense claims about its features I assume that they're already functioning features. People are poking holes in V because its claims are unfounded, not because they've decided they're in competition with the language. A simple "work in progress" sign on the features in question would draw a lot of fire away from the language and its creator.
  - mawfig 4y ago
    Indeed! I even mentioned this in my "Rules of engagement" section: > Features indicated to be incomplete/work in progress/unimplemented will be mentioned as such. Indicating on the vlang.io homepage how much of the language has yet to be realized would go a long way in my opinion.
    - AndyKelley 4y ago
      After I criticized the project for collecting donations on deceitful information, the author put purple "WIP" labels next to a bunch of stuff [1] which led me to make this statement [2]. However, it looks like medvednikov has since removed the "WIP" labels. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20190624052507/https://vlang.io/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190624052507/https://vlang.io/ [2]: https://twitter.com/andy_kelley/status/1142503808901308418 https://twitter.com/andy_kelley/status/1142503808901308418
sergiotapia 4y ago
Nah that article is old as hell - time for new information. Things change. I also despise how many people want to shit on this new language before it even takes off. Why are so many people frothing at the chance to disparage this language and it's author? Never seen something like this.
- kizer 4y ago
  It's been around for a few years now.
- Tozen 4y ago
  - ylluminate 4y ago
    100% right. It's sick. As a donor and supporter of this VALIANT AND VALID effort, I applaud the V community. It's full of sincere passion, love and is putting forth a great effort to realize something useful and needed in this sector.
    - super_flanker 4y ago
      So you think it's okay to lie and mislead people? You're going round the comments and telling everybody how wrong they are. Do you have any thing to say about concerns raised in the blog post? Or would you say that it's a lie and all the points raised are based on falsehood?
      - Tozen 4y ago
      - gompertz 4y ago
        Financial supporter of V here. I don't feel scammed or misled in the slightest; so speak for yourself with the imaginary money you did not donate.

by smcl 4y ago

Seirdy 4y ago

Xe is phasing out that name in favor of "Xe". Xer domain name change was a part of that shift.

smcl 4y ago
Ah I'm sorry, I hadn't checked the website in a little while. I now see there's a redirect and that there is a different name in use.
umvi 4y ago
Is 'Xe' the name or the preferred pronoun of the person in question? Is this like Latinx but race neutral? Gender identity accommodations seem to get more complex and confusing by the month...
- andsoitis 4y ago
  Name, at least that's my interpretation from looking at her Contact Me page: > Copyright 2012-2022 Xe Iaso (Christine Dodrill). https://xeiaso.net/contact https://xeiaso.net/contact [correction] on their GitHub page I see: Please call me (order of preference): Xe/xer, They/them or She/her please. [edit] obscure to have your pronoun also be your name (or maybe your title?). Or maybe it is all just satire, given: "I am an ordained minister with the Church of the Latter-day Dude. This allows me to officiate religious ceremonies in at least the United States." - https://dudeism.com https://dudeism.com
  - xena 4y ago
    To be honest having a person's name be the same as their nominative case pronoun is kind of cool from a whole different perspective than you normally get to see. By doing this experiment I get to see how bad of an idea it is to do that. So far the xe/xer pronouns don't seem to stick as well, but it looks cool so I'm gonna keep up the experiment. I'm also quite seriously an ordained minister.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - andsoitis 4y ago
      :-)
    - shakow 4y ago
      > To be honest having a person's name be the same as their nominative case pronoun is kind of cool The whole point of a person's name is to sufficiently differentiate them from the other persons. Using pronoun as name (or vice versa) just totally negates this goal.
      - xena 4y ago
        To be fair, the name came first. Then I found out it conflicted with people's pronouns and I sat on the idea for a while. Now I'm throwing science at the wall to see what sticks, and this is a fairly amusing experiment. So I'm gonna keep it going.
        smcl 4y ago
        I like it!
- rvz 4y ago
  Who gives. Just use 'they' or 'them', or whatever. It is a universal catch all, gender neutral, i18n inclusivity conformant, ISO 69420 compliant, race neutral, etc. At this point, all of it is basically designed to further confuse and only create a very monthly chaotic outcome for everyone.
  - spottyn 4y ago
  - escape_goat 4y ago
    Xe has been in use as a gender neutral pronoun for nearly thirty years. I, a startlingly ordinary person, was familiar with it as early as the late 90s.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- xena 4y ago
  Why not both?

mawfig 4y ago

Thanks for linking Xe's blog here! It's a few years old and I've seen a lot of comments on HN that suggest V has improved significantly since 2019 so I thought it might be worth looking into for myself and writing down a review of what I found.

Tozen 4y ago
- mawfig 4y ago
  Every evaluation in my blog is fully reproducible from the version of V I linked to and I've included all the source code used as well. My post stands on it's own. Instead of insinuating I'm some kind of competitor or have a personal agenda, I would encourage you to respond to the actual points raised in my post.
  - Tozen 4y ago
    That's interesting or telling, because if you read what I posted carefully, I was not insinuating anything about your evaluation. Instead, the point was being made that you probably don't want to be associated with an old evaluation from 3 years ago, which is falsely accusing V of being vaporware, and where the author and the developer of V clearly have beefs with each other.
    - xena 4y ago
      Good news: I'm never going to write about V again: https://xeiaso.net/blog/against-toxicity-programming-languages https://xeiaso.net/blog/against-toxicity-programming-languag...
      - Ta2000 4y ago
        Well if you really felt that way I think you'd take any toxic programming articles down. They are etched into your GitHub at this point, so people will still reference them if eager... But at least taking that action of pulling such posts off your website will speak volumes about your character and standing by your words. Otherwise it's just more lip-service; not much different than Alex's lip-service you draw attention to.

Tozen 4y ago

Why in the world do competitors of this programming language insist on dragging out evaluations from 3 years ago, which state that V is vaporware and before the language was even released? This is 2022, not 2019, and we are talking a hundred releases later (https://github.com/vlang/v/releases https://github.com/vlang/v/releases). At least stick to the current evaluation (or attack), which is more relevant, and make points from there. But, keep in mind that these attacks are on a young language that isn't 1.0 yet, so even with this we are talking about a moving target. The language is still evolving.

faitswulff 4y ago
I don't have a horse in this race, but when a language makes present-tense claims about its features I assume that they're already functioning features. People are poking holes in V because its claims are unfounded, not because they've decided they're in competition with the language. A simple "work in progress" sign on the features in question would draw a lot of fire away from the language and its creator.
- mawfig 4y ago
  Indeed! I even mentioned this in my "Rules of engagement" section: > Features indicated to be incomplete/work in progress/unimplemented will be mentioned as such. Indicating on the vlang.io homepage how much of the language has yet to be realized would go a long way in my opinion.
  - AndyKelley 4y ago
    After I criticized the project for collecting donations on deceitful information, the author put purple "WIP" labels next to a bunch of stuff [1] which led me to make this statement [2]. However, it looks like medvednikov has since removed the "WIP" labels. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20190624052507/https://vlang.io/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190624052507/https://vlang.io/ [2]: https://twitter.com/andy_kelley/status/1142503808901308418 https://twitter.com/andy_kelley/status/1142503808901308418

sergiotapia 4y ago

Nah that article is old as hell - time for new information. Things change. I also despise how many people want to shit on this new language before it even takes off. Why are so many people frothing at the chance to disparage this language and it's author? Never seen something like this.

kizer 4y ago
It's been around for a few years now.
Tozen 4y ago
- ylluminate 4y ago
  100% right. It's sick. As a donor and supporter of this VALIANT AND VALID effort, I applaud the V community. It's full of sincere passion, love and is putting forth a great effort to realize something useful and needed in this sector.
  - super_flanker 4y ago
    So you think it's okay to lie and mislead people? You're going round the comments and telling everybody how wrong they are. Do you have any thing to say about concerns raised in the blog post? Or would you say that it's a lie and all the points raised are based on falsehood?
    - Tozen 4y ago
    - gompertz 4y ago
      Financial supporter of V here. I don't feel scammed or misled in the slightest; so speak for yourself with the imaginary money you did not donate.