6 ms·

A lot of gun restrictions can be very different as presented versus how they are in practice. Especially when it comes to the sort of "edge cases" that don't ac

A lot of gun restrictions can be very different as presented versus how they are in practice. Especially when it comes to the sort of "edge cases" that don't actually end up being edge cases. Universal background checks sound like common sense to a lot of people, until it's pointed out that they mean that they suicidal person can't give their guns to a friend for safekeeping - or let a buddy borrow a hunting rifle for the weekend. (It also means implementing a national gun registry to actually enforce anything, and registries have led to confiscation too many times for comfort) Ditto with red flag laws - everyone wants to let the police take the guns away from the next school shooter, but a lot of people are justifiably wary that the police will just take guns from "every black man", "everyone that criticizes the local police department" or even just "absolutely everyone". (Or that potential home invaders will do this to their victim before invading) All Cops Are Bastards, but we can trust them to not abuse new powers over guns? So when the actual wording of the policy that gets shorthanded as "red flag laws" or "universal background checks" makes it to a referendum, you can see some of that come into play.

beachy 4y ago
The slippery slope/edge case arguments. These things seem to be so complex in America. They're not. Can you loan a rifle to a buddy for a hunting weekend? Yes, as long as your buddy has his gun licence. Otherwise a hard no, as there's no proof your buddy has a damn clue about gun safety. And of course you, a licenced gun owner, can supervise your buddy while he shoots if he doesn't have a licence. Same for teaching your kids to shoot safely. Can that hunting rifle be an AR-15? No. Military assault rifles are not needed for hunting. You can use a bolt action rifle, or even a low powered semi-auto, .22. If you have special requirements - like hunting feral hogs from a helicopter - then you can apply for a special class of licence that allows you to possess said weapons, and use them for said purpose. Are there red flag rules? Obviously! Why would you let a disturbed individual have a lethal weapon? Can people still have their guns? Yes! But they must be stored in a secure gun safe, and some weapons (e.g pistols/concealable weapons), due to the risks they present, must be treated separately. You certainly can't carry your gun on your shoulder into the supermarket. And so it goes. The solutions to America's gun problem are obvious - from the outside.
- deleted 4y ago
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- SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
  The complexity isn't that it's hard to write out a set of gun regulations. The complexity is that many Americans support only a subset of the measures you're describing. So when universal background checks (for example) come up for a vote, a lot of people who support them in principle raise concerns that they'll be seen as a backdoor for creating a gun licensing program, and thus they get a lot less popular support than you'd expect from polling data.
  - beachy 4y ago
    Why would you not require a licence to own and operate a lethal weapon?
    - DuskStar 4y ago
      Because trusting the government to have the power to determine who gets to defend themselves means that African Americans in the post-civil-war south, and Jews in 1930s Germany, don't get to defend themselves. People keep saying that the US is on the verge of being a fascist white supremacist state - why do you want to give that state the right to choose who gets guns? Edit: and in more immediately practical consequences, because gun-hostile governments have a history of publicly leaking the list of people who own guns.
      - ithkuil 4y ago
        Moat countries require a license to drive cars. A white supremacist nation can certainly use that as excuse to take away the livelihood from certain classes of people. Is this a reason for not enforcing the need to have a driving license? (You do have driving licenses in the US right? I'm often surprised about the amount of things that seem universal and that are not a thing in the united states')
        4y ago
skissane 4y ago
How about this proposal – since the Gun Control Act of 1968, there has been a minimum age of 21 to buy handguns under US federal law, why not extend that to long guns as well? President Trump publicly proposed this in 2018 (after the Parkland shooting), but soon after dropped the idea under pressure from the NRA and other gun lobby groups. What is wrong with that proposal? It really seems like the NRA is just opposed to any stricter regulation whatsoever.

beachy 4y ago

The slippery slope/edge case arguments. These things seem to be so complex in America. They're not. Can you loan a rifle to a buddy for a hunting weekend? Yes, as long as your buddy has his gun licence. Otherwise a hard no, as there's no proof your buddy has a damn clue about gun safety. And of course you, a licenced gun owner, can supervise your buddy while he shoots if he doesn't have a licence. Same for teaching your kids to shoot safely. Can that hunting rifle be an AR-15? No. Military assault rifles are not needed for hunting. You can use a bolt action rifle, or even a low powered semi-auto, .22. If you have special requirements - like hunting feral hogs from a helicopter - then you can apply for a special class of licence that allows you to possess said weapons, and use them for said purpose. Are there red flag rules? Obviously! Why would you let a disturbed individual have a lethal weapon? Can people still have their guns? Yes! But they must be stored in a secure gun safe, and some weapons (e.g pistols/concealable weapons), due to the risks they present, must be treated separately. You certainly can't carry your gun on your shoulder into the supermarket. And so it goes. The solutions to America's gun problem are obvious - from the outside.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
The complexity isn't that it's hard to write out a set of gun regulations. The complexity is that many Americans support only a subset of the measures you're describing. So when universal background checks (for example) come up for a vote, a lot of people who support them in principle raise concerns that they'll be seen as a backdoor for creating a gun licensing program, and thus they get a lot less popular support than you'd expect from polling data.
- beachy 4y ago
  Why would you not require a licence to own and operate a lethal weapon?
  - DuskStar 4y ago
    Because trusting the government to have the power to determine who gets to defend themselves means that African Americans in the post-civil-war south, and Jews in 1930s Germany, don't get to defend themselves. People keep saying that the US is on the verge of being a fascist white supremacist state - why do you want to give that state the right to choose who gets guns? Edit: and in more immediately practical consequences, because gun-hostile governments have a history of publicly leaking the list of people who own guns.
    - ithkuil 4y ago
      Moat countries require a license to drive cars. A white supremacist nation can certainly use that as excuse to take away the livelihood from certain classes of people. Is this a reason for not enforcing the need to have a driving license? (You do have driving licenses in the US right? I'm often surprised about the amount of things that seem universal and that are not a thing in the united states')
      - 4y ago

skissane 4y ago

How about this proposal – since the Gun Control Act of 1968, there has been a minimum age of 21 to buy handguns under US federal law, why not extend that to long guns as well? President Trump publicly proposed this in 2018 (after the Parkland shooting), but soon after dropped the idea under pressure from the NRA and other gun lobby groups. What is wrong with that proposal? It really seems like the NRA is just opposed to any stricter regulation whatsoever.