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I just don't buy that the river metaphor wasn't about Apple. It just doesn't make sense unless he was retiring or leaving design entirely. Otherwise the lack of

I just don't buy that the river metaphor wasn't about Apple. It just doesn't make sense unless he was retiring or leaving design entirely. Otherwise the lack of water is clearly related to Apple. If it really was solely about himself it's a really poor metaphor. So the river is moving to a new mountain? And the river's lack of water has nothing to do with the current one? Or, the mountain (Apple) has plenty of water but somehow this river (employee) can't receive any of it? The non-critical-of-Apple reading is convoluted and tortured, imo.

zarzavat 4y ago
“ When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Sadly rivers run dry..” It seems obvious that he is talking about his personal joy running out. Because that’s what he said.
- ballenf 4y ago
  I see that take on it. Maybe the lesson is that for employees who happen to believe that Apple's river had run dry, the message would be hard to interpret as personal to the author. Or that the river running dry personally is potentially contagious.
  - scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
    That’s the other lesson - don’t use poetry or metaphors to express your self because they will inevitably be twisted to suit the corporate interests and not yours.
    - whywhywhywhy 4y ago
      Don’t really see how it could have been interpreted any other way.
    - kzrdude 4y ago
      It's not so far from that to, "don't show your human side to the soulless corporation." And why even work for them, then?
      - geraldwhen 4y ago
        To get paid. Work is not your family. Family doesn’t fire you for sending an email.
        kzrdude 4y ago
        If you're a valuable worker, go find a place that does more to you than pay :)
  - cmiles74 4y ago
    This whole story highlights how top-of-mind this fear that the "river" of innovation at Apple might be running dry really was for the leadership of this design team.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
Well, it’s not his own poetry - it’s some Persian classic he’s quoting so you could probably look into it and find a whole well-spring of deep knowledge explaining exactly what he meant by it. In the letter he talks about his own soul, and the experience of deep work being like that of a river. So it’s pretty clear he’s talking about what’s on his interior spiritually. From a designer “I am barren and in a creative rut” pretty much means “I can’t come up with good stuff and I’m of no use to all of you here”. However, regardless of what he actually said, he was on his way out from a tight-knit and emotionally connected team in which expressing your feelings and being sensitive is sort of expected, only the guys running that team were so paranoid that they decided to burn him and smear shit all over his beautiful farewell letter. That’s a dark thing to do to someone’s career/reputation etc. Getting that glimpse, I do wonder to what extent Ive and his buddies have other ugly deeds on their accounts. Perhaps Ive running that separate company of his is really only a way of gracefully pushing this kind of toxicity away from the house just in case.
- Nathanba 4y ago
  If the team was truly so tight knit then you wouldn't need to write an email to convey that you are leaving. I'm personally always flabbergasted by people who write company wide farewell messages. It's a net negative for the company to hear about people leaving. It doesn't matter what the reason for leaving is except if it's that the person won the lottery. Any other reason: Why not stay here? What's so unsustainable about working here?
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    I’m the opposite. My company has this thing where people that leave send an email they’re leaving literally the afternoon they disappear, and sometimes nothing at all. It feels like they’re sneaking out under the cover of night, and it makes everyone I need to work with feel very fungible. Getting attached to any given person is a dangerous excercise, since one day they might suddenly be gone, and you wouldn’t know it.
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    Messages in advance of a departure help transfer responsibilities during the transition period.
preseinger 4y ago
It reads to me as obviously about the author, and the critical-of-Apple reading the convoluted and tortured version, only making sense if your model of humans is fundamentally... I dunno, manipulative, or Machiavellian. (shrug)
- socialdemocrat 4y ago
  Well put, my thoughts as well. It just makes me sad on behalf of humanity that we turn out having such bleak and cynical perspective on other people. Benefit of the doubt? Guilty until proven otherwise? Are such ideals just unfashionable today or something? People should put more faith in each other. Look for the positive instead of just the flaws and shortcomings.
ajross 4y ago
> If it really was solely about himself it's a really poor metaphor. The point of the story was that he was fired for what very well might have been a poor metaphor. I mean, even taking your point as a prior and assuming that the guy was clearly saying that Apple's design primacy was fading as he announced his retirement... why is that a termination-worthy act? I mean, yeah, he was firing some mildly poetic shots at his employer. Who among us, as it were. That quote was a little bit of passive aggression. Firing him was an act of deliberate malice.
socialdemocrat 4y ago
It looked like a a description of personal journey to me immediately. It makes no sense for a person to say such a thing about the company. To simple assume that I find a bit sad. Like to people really think so low of their fellow man? I think our society has gotten to much cynicism. Maybe we need more nativity, compassion and empathy.
smaudet 4y ago
"The non-critical-of-Apple reading is convoluted and tortured, imo." Perhaps you are also reading things with a certain context - "poor", "convoluted", "tortured", "lack", "can't" - all negative words used in this comment. People often see things through lenses, - if management is negative, thin skinned, looking at a statement like that as anything but an indictment of the company would be wondrous. As others pointed out, the context of the letter speaks very differently. Whether it is "Apples" river or the river of inspiration of the employee, is hardly worth arguing over, inspiration comes from without and is experienced by the employee, there is nothing innately inspiration about a company, ever, only about its employees...who make up said company. I suppose you might want to argue that employees can inspire other employees - perhaps, but only to the limited degree which some employees have different experiences than others. As a senior employee, you are somewhat expected to be that source of inspiration, saying rivers dry up, e.g. yours, is not saying that Apple the company, can never be a place employees will experience inspiration, just that you aren't experiencing it anymore, and that's perfectly fine. What's also perfectly fine is that management reacted this, way, which, ironically, foreshadows the absolutely lack-luster dumpster fire which was Apple in the past decade. It illustrates perhaps why there was not inspiration, because leadership failed to provide it.
franga2000 4y ago
I read it as there not being anything else at Apple left to inspire him, which is a reflection on his story at Apple, not Apple itself. If you work at one place for well over a decade, it makes sense to me that you would eventually run out of things you want to do there and have to move on. But regardless of the interpretation, firing the dude was completely unacceptable.

zarzavat 4y ago

“ When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Sadly rivers run dry..” It seems obvious that he is talking about his personal joy running out. Because that’s what he said.

ballenf 4y ago
I see that take on it. Maybe the lesson is that for employees who happen to believe that Apple's river had run dry, the message would be hard to interpret as personal to the author. Or that the river running dry personally is potentially contagious.
- scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
  That’s the other lesson - don’t use poetry or metaphors to express your self because they will inevitably be twisted to suit the corporate interests and not yours.
  - whywhywhywhy 4y ago
    Don’t really see how it could have been interpreted any other way.
  - kzrdude 4y ago
    It's not so far from that to, "don't show your human side to the soulless corporation." And why even work for them, then?
    - geraldwhen 4y ago
      To get paid. Work is not your family. Family doesn’t fire you for sending an email.
      - kzrdude 4y ago
        If you're a valuable worker, go find a place that does more to you than pay :)
- cmiles74 4y ago
  This whole story highlights how top-of-mind this fear that the "river" of innovation at Apple might be running dry really was for the leadership of this design team.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago

Well, it’s not his own poetry - it’s some Persian classic he’s quoting so you could probably look into it and find a whole well-spring of deep knowledge explaining exactly what he meant by it. In the letter he talks about his own soul, and the experience of deep work being like that of a river. So it’s pretty clear he’s talking about what’s on his interior spiritually. From a designer “I am barren and in a creative rut” pretty much means “I can’t come up with good stuff and I’m of no use to all of you here”. However, regardless of what he actually said, he was on his way out from a tight-knit and emotionally connected team in which expressing your feelings and being sensitive is sort of expected, only the guys running that team were so paranoid that they decided to burn him and smear shit all over his beautiful farewell letter. That’s a dark thing to do to someone’s career/reputation etc. Getting that glimpse, I do wonder to what extent Ive and his buddies have other ugly deeds on their accounts. Perhaps Ive running that separate company of his is really only a way of gracefully pushing this kind of toxicity away from the house just in case.

Nathanba 4y ago
If the team was truly so tight knit then you wouldn't need to write an email to convey that you are leaving. I'm personally always flabbergasted by people who write company wide farewell messages. It's a net negative for the company to hear about people leaving. It doesn't matter what the reason for leaving is except if it's that the person won the lottery. Any other reason: Why not stay here? What's so unsustainable about working here?
- Aeolun 4y ago
  I’m the opposite. My company has this thing where people that leave send an email they’re leaving literally the afternoon they disappear, and sometimes nothing at all. It feels like they’re sneaking out under the cover of night, and it makes everyone I need to work with feel very fungible. Getting attached to any given person is a dangerous excercise, since one day they might suddenly be gone, and you wouldn’t know it.
- saagarjha 4y ago
  Messages in advance of a departure help transfer responsibilities during the transition period.

preseinger 4y ago

It reads to me as obviously about the author, and the critical-of-Apple reading the convoluted and tortured version, only making sense if your model of humans is fundamentally... I dunno, manipulative, or Machiavellian. (shrug)

socialdemocrat 4y ago
Well put, my thoughts as well. It just makes me sad on behalf of humanity that we turn out having such bleak and cynical perspective on other people. Benefit of the doubt? Guilty until proven otherwise? Are such ideals just unfashionable today or something? People should put more faith in each other. Look for the positive instead of just the flaws and shortcomings.

ajross 4y ago

> If it really was solely about himself it's a really poor metaphor. The point of the story was that he was fired for what very well might have been a poor metaphor. I mean, even taking your point as a prior and assuming that the guy was clearly saying that Apple's design primacy was fading as he announced his retirement... why is that a termination-worthy act? I mean, yeah, he was firing some mildly poetic shots at his employer. Who among us, as it were. That quote was a little bit of passive aggression. Firing him was an act of deliberate malice.

socialdemocrat 4y ago

It looked like a a description of personal journey to me immediately. It makes no sense for a person to say such a thing about the company. To simple assume that I find a bit sad. Like to people really think so low of their fellow man? I think our society has gotten to much cynicism. Maybe we need more nativity, compassion and empathy.

smaudet 4y ago

"The non-critical-of-Apple reading is convoluted and tortured, imo." Perhaps you are also reading things with a certain context - "poor", "convoluted", "tortured", "lack", "can't" - all negative words used in this comment. People often see things through lenses, - if management is negative, thin skinned, looking at a statement like that as anything but an indictment of the company would be wondrous. As others pointed out, the context of the letter speaks very differently. Whether it is "Apples" river or the river of inspiration of the employee, is hardly worth arguing over, inspiration comes from without and is experienced by the employee, there is nothing innately inspiration about a company, ever, only about its employees...who make up said company. I suppose you might want to argue that employees can inspire other employees - perhaps, but only to the limited degree which some employees have different experiences than others. As a senior employee, you are somewhat expected to be that source of inspiration, saying rivers dry up, e.g. yours, is not saying that Apple the company, can never be a place employees will experience inspiration, just that you aren't experiencing it anymore, and that's perfectly fine. What's also perfectly fine is that management reacted this, way, which, ironically, foreshadows the absolutely lack-luster dumpster fire which was Apple in the past decade. It illustrates perhaps why there was not inspiration, because leadership failed to provide it.

franga2000 4y ago

I read it as there not being anything else at Apple left to inspire him, which is a reflection on his story at Apple, not Apple itself. If you work at one place for well over a decade, it makes sense to me that you would eventually run out of things you want to do there and have to move on. But regardless of the interpretation, firing the dude was completely unacceptable.