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Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020
- 11amxn11 4y ago
- synu 4y agoThe prayers and devotion of the faithful will always be answered with golden rewards.
- 11amxn11 4y ago
- bovinejoni 4y agoRight. So long as rising interest rates, regulatory crackdown, environmental awareness, defrauded investors and a proliferation of competitors don’t affect your thesis of “buy the dip”
- 11amxn11 4y agoThere are no competitors. Bitcoin will eventually die and cash will too, because that's the future we're headed to. One world govt composed of states that share data and and commit to tracking and surveilling in everything you do.
- synu 4y agoDown $42,000 since the “Fortune Favours the Brave” commercial - which is famously something Pliny said before setting sail for Vesuvius as it was erupting, and then dying.
- uejfiweun 4y ago“History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes” – Mark Twain
- lrvick 4y agoThe earliest match for this popular quotation appeared in an essay by Theodor Reik in 1965. Currently, he is the leading candidate for coiner of the saying. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/01/12/history-rhymes/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/01/12/history-rhymes/
- uejfiweun 4y agoAh, interesting. I just did a cursory Google search for the author of the quote and it said Mark Twain. Guess someone should file a bug for their knowledge graph team.
- hyperjeff 4y agoA cursory search might even give one the impression that Einstein had an opinion about bees. (Unkillable memes are pretty interesting.)
- robonerd 4y agoMeh. A lot of people have said that, some before disaster and some before victory. It was already an old saying when Pliny the Elder said it. Wellington made it his motto, and he beat Napoleon.
- synu 4y agoAt the risk of explaining a joke, the idea was not that it’s something that’s only ever been said before failure, but that it’s a quite funny thing to say just before one.
- robonerd 4y agoAt the risk of explaining my objection; it's not about the joke but about the premise of history rhyming generally being an artifact of overzealous pattern matching and the implicit exclusion of cases that don't match the target pattern.
- dotcoma 4y agoBuy the dip! Buy the dip! ;-)
- TylerE 4y agoUnder $19k now, and ETH is under $1000
- rvz 4y ago1 year ago I said... > 'I hope you didn't buy BTC at >$60K.' [0] Michael Saylor and Nayib Bukele (El Salvador's President), etc are all HODLing in drawdown again after buying in at >$40K. They and many others have bought in during the peak mania and the crypto hype of last year which in the case for Bitcoin it really is the wrong time to buy in and is actually the best time to sell. Still has a long way down to go, especially even when regulations will soon come along and the full unveiling of the Tether scam. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27206314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27206314
- nextstepguy 4y agoMichael and Nayib are gamblers who like to take risks. It could have worked the opposite for them if BTC wasn't so connected with the stock market. I don't think they realized this until it was too late.
- ricardbejarano 4y agoStill priced 20k above it's value.
- slyall 4y agoIt just has to drop till it has a price/earnings ratio of around 15-20.
- chihuahua 4y agoOr until Beanie Babies are 1 BTC each. Both are rock-solid wealth-building investments.
- gerikson 4y agoWhat earnings? There's no return on Bitcoin apart from price increase.
- TheAlchemist 4y agoThat’s exactly his point !
- trog 4y agoWoosh
- WJW 4y agoThat's the joke. P/E of 15-20 would mean a bitcoin price of zero.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- danielrpa 4y agoDoge's market cap is still at 7B. A lot to go still, but getting to the true value soon!
- 111111101101 4y agoTell that to Ross Ulbricht...
- Lionga 4y agoObligatory "this is good for bitcoin"
- sweetbitter 4y agoI don't think anything could be better for cryptographic currencies than most of the speculators having their investments crushed.
- lottin 4y agoExcept that their only use case is speculation, so once speculators are gone... nothing is left.
- sweetbitter 4y agoI've bought them to rent VPS many times. They have their value, since they are effectively the ability to teleport cash (with similar ramifications as physical cash) from point A to point B.
- redox99 4y agoThere are goods you can only buy online with cryptocurrencies
- lrvick 4y agoAs someone who continually buys with no intention of ever selling, I welcome clearance sales like these.
- sentirism 4y agoIn a sense, it could be good for bitcoin long term for the speculative mania to die. Then it can possibly find some price stability to actually function as a currency. This is all standard speculative mania stuff right now though. The bubble burst, next the scams are uncovered and wiped out, regulation comes in then to "protect" investors from being scammed in the same fashion in the future.
- ramshanker 4y agoMy favourite side effect is the Graphics Card prices coming back to realities.
- highwaylights 4y agoI’d still wait if I were you. That’s a red hot used market that Lovelace still needs to sell into. The drops aren’t done yet.
- xmprt 4y agoAre used graphics cards worth buying or does bitcoin mining cause significant wear and damage to them?
- Asraelite 4y agoBitcoin mining is done with ASICs, not GPUs afaik. It's other currencies like Ethereum that use GPUs. I don't know what the extent of damage is though.
- scoopertrooper 4y agoEthereum is down about 80% from their all-time-high and 74% from the start of 2022. It's a massacre for the whole scene.
- Taniwha 4y agoSome of us are waiting for the FPGA rigs to start to flood the market so we can do other stuff with them ..... the lower BTC goes the better I did like the comment someone made on twitter the Elon's raving causing crypto to crash had done more for the planet than all the teslas ....
- kevingadd 4y agoA few different people have done tests to verify whether GPUs used for eth mining took any damage from doing so, and haven't managed to find any evidence that it damages the card more than regular use. Running cards under severe load nonstop for years could potentially shorten their lifespan by a tiny bit due to electromigration or wear out the fans, but that's about it. Of course, any used GPU could be defective, so you need to be careful buying one no matter what. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKqVvXTanzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKqVvXTanzI https://youtu.be/3WWfj7RF_z8?t=381 https://youtu.be/3WWfj7RF_z8?t=381
- drawingthesun 4y agoConsidering Bitcoin had never fallen lower than a previous cycles ATH (All Time High) until now, who is thinking that this might be a sign of the end of crypto? Each cycle goes higher was pretty much the only thing that kept the whole thing going. Now that is gone I think the space will dry up. Tether collapsing in the next couple weeks will likely put Bitcoin under $10,000
- iLoveOncall 4y agoTether collapsing would have a far larger effect than putting BTC to 10K, it would probably be the end of crypto. The vast majority of alt-coins cannot be exchanged against dollars and have a value only if they can be traded against USDT or other stablecoins.
- rvz 4y ago> Tether collapsing would have a far larger effect than putting BTC to 10K, it would probably be the end of crypto. Tether isn't the only stablecoin out there. Tether collapsing is basically the end of Tether and will send BTC below 10K and will take the others with them. It won't be the end of crypto due to this as there are other coins (not tokens) out there that are compliant (ISO 20020), have a use case and will survive this crash, but I expect the majority of useless memecoins, tokens, etc to be wiped out.
- iLoveOncall 4y ago> Tether isn't the only stablecoin out there. The end of Tether will be the end of stablecoins, just like ICOs ended completely at some point.
- zdkl 4y ago> The vast majority of alt-coins cannot be exchanged against dollars I mean. You could, like, sell them on a forum or in person. With your wallet which is supposed to enable you to do just that. I admire the success of crypto-exchanges' marketing in making them out to be the only way to conduct transactions on a friggin transaction management system. But then you'd have to deal with the fact that next to no one wants to organically trade <random myriad of altcoins/tokens>. I for one rejoice about the upcoming altcoin extinction event.
- mongol 4y ago2020 is not that long time ago...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- kristaps 4y agoDumb money drying up?
- cuteboy19 4y agoIt was always a bet on human stupidity+greed. If you are bullish on Bitcoin, it means you think the greatest fool hasn't yet been found
- Roguelike 4y agoSell now. Buy back when the price goes lower. I'll be back when the bitcoin show is back in town. The lower, the better.
- dylkil 4y agodumb money is exiting at a loss. who do you think is buying on the other side? not the dumb money that bought 60k, its the smart money that sold it who is buying right now.
- SunlightEdge 4y agoI was laughed at, repeatedly, on Twitter, by crypto types when I often said I was confident Bitcoin price would fall below $20k 6 months ago. It's not something you can really short though?
- technocratius 4y agoYou can short Bitcoin on larger exchanges
- highwaylights 4y agoBut then you’re trusting those exchanges to be able and/or willing to exit you. There’s no reliable way to short it. (Unless the exchanges let you withdraw the fiat for your positions while they’re open?)
- dubswithus 4y agoSo every business associated with crypto is untrustworthy? It’s hilarious that the anti bitcoiners are so anti bitcoin that it prevents them from using any of the trustworthy exchanges to short it. Exchanges make huge amounts of money in bear and bull markets.
- highwaylights 4y ago> So every business associated with crypto is untrustworthy? Yes. If it's provenance is unverifiable (it is), and there's no evidence that the money being pumped into it exists (there isn't), then anything even adjacent to it is implicitly exposed to counter-party risk and therefore untrustworthy. This is without even considering the fact that there's substantial evidence to suggest that most of the money being pumped in does not exist (cough tether cough). Exchanges make money while the plates are spinning, and they make significantly less in bear markets, none of which guarantees your exit. If a bank fails it's dissolved and guaranteed deposits get first preference when administrators sift through the wreckage. If a crypto exchange even looks like it might fai.. oops boating accident. What's hilarious to me is that Saylor still gets asked on live television if he's worried about a margin call. He laughs it off and says something like "oh no, we're not close to that and very liquid" which really means "lol no I'll just say oopsie doopsie some intern lost the key". The people that lent to him are beyond belief stupid. How are you all still drinking the koolaid?
- lrvick 4y agoSo many new entries for https://www.bitcoinisdead.org/ https://www.bitcoinisdead.org/ It never gets old.
- agilob 4y agoPeople here cheer for fall of Bitcoin and end of cryto not seeing that GOOG dropped from 2999.05 to 2157 and both charts look pretty much the same?
- rvz 4y agoThere you go. In the last 6 - 7 months the SNP 500 is down from its ATH, taking all the other stocks with it and especially even those at Netflix or holding NFLX stock. They have been awfully quiet ever since. The market needs a wipe out of the speculators, VCs, scammers and retail investors to drain out the billions of dumb money to cause these prices to go down again to around November 2020. This is why once Tether collapses, we will see Bitcoin at $10K again, lower than we have seen since March 2020. As for the stock market, It isn't done and can still drop further as soon as the Fed increases rates again in July and the layoffs will accelerate when the VCs continue to deny more funding for the vast majority of useless unprofitable startups that will also be wiped out. Either way, Just like 90% of startups fail. 90% of these cryptocurrency / blockchain projects won't survive this bear market or even the first foot of regulations. The remaining 10% will continue to survive once again.
- 111111101101 4y agoIt's sour grapes. I first heard of bitcoin in a HN post 11 or so years ago and I'm still kicking myself for not mining a few thousand then. "Nice idea but it wont succeed" were my thoughts...
- scoofy 4y agoMy only solace is that I was into Dogecoin, and did mine/acquire about 30 or so. At it's peak, annoyed, I tried to find my old computer with my wallet. I gave it an honest try, but then looked up the amount the doge was worth. Somewhere around $20 at it's peak. I would have really been bummed if it'd been worth anything.
- cmrdporcupine 4y agoGOOG has not dropped 45% in a year. (Not that I care much, I sold all my GSUs after I quit in January, and lucked out and hit it at its peak)
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- hubraumhugo 4y agoI've heard of signs that Tether could collapse too. I guess that would be the Lehman Brothers for crypto?
- lottin 4y agoI wonder how the bitcoin mining industry is doing. Bitcoin's hash rate isn't falling [1], which suggests miners aren't able to reduce costs. Revenue on the other hand is tied to bitcoin price, which is falling. So what does that mean... are they headed for bankruptcy? [1] https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate
- zarzavat 4y agoIt either suggests that mining is still profitable relative to energy prices, or that miners believe that the price is likely to rise and so are mining at a loss regardless.
- scoopertrooper 4y agoTaking the cost of the ASIC as a sunk cost, the amount of electricity required to mine a Bitcoin to be 150 kWh, the cost of electricity being 6 cents per kWh, and ignoring overhead such as wages and rent, then the breakeven price for Bitcoin mining is $9,000 USD. You may consider multiplying that by a factor to add some conservatism (though my estimates themselves may actually be conservative given that a lot of mining happens in country with low energy and labour prices), but it still seems like it's more profitable to keep the ASICs running than to switch them off, which is attested to by the fact the hashrate hasn't been significantly affected by the recent fluctuations in price. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...
- lottin 4y agoIf the break-even price was $9,000, miners would be making a truckload of money, and more of them would be entering the market. Yet the opposite is happening. Miners are trying to disinvest by selling some of the hardware and struggling to find buyers. [1] [1] https://blockworks.co/crashing-prices-expose-bitcoin-mining-industrys-addiction-to-leverage/ https://blockworks.co/crashing-prices-expose-bitcoin-mining-...
- thehappypm 4y agoTaking the cost of hardware as a sunk cost is foolish it’s one of the largest costs
- bsaul 4y agoi wouldn't be surprised if eth survives but btc don't. Ethereum has actually built something on top of its coin, thanks to smart contract. To my knowledge, BTC is pure speculation.
- koonsolo 4y agoBitcoin has the name, which is used a lot as a synonym for cryptocurrency. Don't underestimate the branding power of such a marketing position (Same like Cleanex & Coca-Cola)
- majani 4y agoActually the presence of an active, neurodivergent figurehead for eth is a more existential risk than anything on btc's end.
- dangerface 4y agoTrue lots of people upset with Tesla and Space X simply because they are owned by Musk.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- shp0ngle 4y agoWhat a day. what a lovely day.
- sprash 4y agoWhat would you prefer? CBDC or Bitcoin. One or the other will be the future.
- yawnxyz 4y agoETH also briefly dropped below $1k. These should trigger a series of margin call events, shouldn't it?
- alkonaut 4y agoIf people are doing any kind of leveraged positions on Cryptocurrency then who the hell lent them the money?
- FridgeSeal 4y agoOther people in crypto? Haven’t you seen how wild that ecosystem is?
- TimJRobinson 4y agoYou haven't heard of decentralized finance? It's a $250B industry mostly running on Ethereum. Constantly surprised how out of the loop HN is on this.
- alkonaut 4y agoI wasn't aware that hedge funds operating on top of it were a big thing (i.e. leveraged risks). You'd think the volatility of these things are bad enough even if you are merely doing traditional investment funds (i.e. just investing people's money - not investing peoples money leveraged by further lending).
- TimJRobinson 4y agoAs it's been hovering around there for a week I assume most have deleveraged by now.
- _ttg 4y agoPrevious hits - https://hn.algolia.com/?q=bitcoin+falls https://hn.algolia.com/?q=bitcoin+falls
- physicsguy 4y agoThe interesting thing this time is that it is at a point with high inflation and an incoming recession, when people - even the “true believer HODL” crowd - might not have a choice about whether to withdraw if they need the money for living costs. I’ve certainly got my popcorn for the next year or so.
- iamgopal 4y agoHow this wasn’t obvious?
- koonsolo 4y agoYou shorted it when it was this obvious?
- RickJWagner 4y ago
- smaryjerry 4y agoAs long as every bitcoin move is headline news there will always be a market for crypto. When these articles get no comments because it’s like arguing against flat earthers then it will be dead. The reality is it’s still nearly a trillion dollar market and the people like to debate and discuss it because of the uncertainty surrounding it’s demise, if it was settled no one would care and that’s when it would actually go to zero. Until then every drop is just another opportunity for someone buying.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]