5 ms·

This is not a hypothetical problem. Former slave-owning states passed Black Codes that made it easy to convict blacks of things..where they wound up in prisons

by btilly 4y ago

This is not a hypothetical problem. Former slave-owning states passed Black Codes that made it easy to convict blacks of things..where they wound up in prisons where they were leased out as workers. Since it mostly happened to blacks, nobody cared much if there was much fairness in the process. And given the economic incentives, it was done fairly liberally. https://innocenceproject.org/13th-amendment-slavery-prison-labor-angola-louisiana/ https://innocenceproject.org/13th-amendment-slavery-prison-l... documents that it still happens in places like Louisiana.

z3c0 4y ago
I'll add that the basis of the wording of the 13th amendment was to sweeten the deal for southern states. They had a lot of black people in prison already (and then some), and did not like the idea of undergoing reconstruction without some source of free labor.
randycupertino 4y ago
There's actually a great book about this by Shane Bauer, a journalist who went undercover in Louisiana's Winn Correctional Center and wrote a book about his experiences. It details not only the brutality of the system but also the apathy and corruption of the minimum wage employee guards. So many of the guards themselves run smuggling ops and other deals with the prisoners as they are minimum wage barely screened laborers. It's a horrific if eye-opening book, an excellent read. I found out about it by another poster on hackernews and highly recommend! https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/38561954-american-prison https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/38561954-american-pri...
- pyuser583 4y ago
  The most fascinating part is how Louisiana doesn’t have prison gangs. I get that Lousiana is different they use Civil Law and descend from France/Spain, not England. But, no prison gangs! I figured that was just a universal thing. They have them in France and Spain … why not Louisiana? Because Louisiana does things different.
philliphaydon 4y ago
Oh wow I didn’t know that. All of a sudden it makes the lyrics from “Jedi Mind Tricks - Shadow Business” make sense. > Slavery's not illegal, that's a fucking lie It's illegal, unless it's for conviction of a crime The main objective is to get you in your fucking prime And keep the prison full and not give you a fucking dime https://genius.com/Jedi-mind-tricks-shadow-business-lyrics https://genius.com/Jedi-mind-tricks-shadow-business-lyrics
- lelandfe 4y ago
  But thanks to Reaganomics, prison turned to profits Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics Cause slavery was abolished, unless you are in prison You think I am bullshittin? Then read the 13th Amendment Involuntary servitude and slavery it prohibits That's why they givin' drug offenders time in double digits - Killer Mike, Reagan
  - acchow 4y ago
    Sick rap, but $11bn is hardly a rounding error in US economics. A larger issue is the prison industrial complex, not the involuntary servitude within it
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - unmole 4y ago
    > Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics Yeah, no.
    - pastacacioepepe 4y ago
      You need to argument when you negate someone's opinion.
      - unmole 4y ago
        Do I also need to argue someone's opinion of the earth being flat?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tomohawk 4y ago
- epakai 4y ago
  Just explain why Republicans defend confederate statues... There is little to associate the modern Republican party with, for example, Lincoln's party. Are Republicans of today going to enforce those reparations you're waiting on??? Your one-sided painting of the situation is a useless way to frame reality.
  - tomohawk 4y ago
    - effingwewt 4y ago
      This is taught in middle school history. Much of history is fought over, and in those instances you'd have had a leg to stand on, but this right here was clear-cut. The fact that the people with the values who called themselves Democrats back then became what are Republicans today. Stop trying to re-write history to fit a narrative, life sucks hard enough without people making stuff up to muddy the waters.
- grzm 4y ago
  This ignores the realignment of the parties in the 1940s. See the formation of the States' Rights Democratic Party (Dixiecrats). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat
  - tomohawk 4y ago
    Stop pushing this big lie. The people in the Dixiecrats are known. There are lists. Can you name 10 that switched parties? You can't.
    - grzm 4y ago
thescriptkiddie 4y ago
For more information on this and the post-civil-war era in general, I highly recommend reading Black Reconstruction in America by W. E. B. Du Bois.

by btilly 4y ago

z3c0 4y ago

I'll add that the basis of the wording of the 13th amendment was to sweeten the deal for southern states. They had a lot of black people in prison already (and then some), and did not like the idea of undergoing reconstruction without some source of free labor.

randycupertino 4y ago

There's actually a great book about this by Shane Bauer, a journalist who went undercover in Louisiana's Winn Correctional Center and wrote a book about his experiences. It details not only the brutality of the system but also the apathy and corruption of the minimum wage employee guards. So many of the guards themselves run smuggling ops and other deals with the prisoners as they are minimum wage barely screened laborers. It's a horrific if eye-opening book, an excellent read. I found out about it by another poster on hackernews and highly recommend! https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/38561954-american-prison https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/38561954-american-pri...

pyuser583 4y ago
The most fascinating part is how Louisiana doesn’t have prison gangs. I get that Lousiana is different they use Civil Law and descend from France/Spain, not England. But, no prison gangs! I figured that was just a universal thing. They have them in France and Spain … why not Louisiana? Because Louisiana does things different.

philliphaydon 4y ago

Oh wow I didn’t know that. All of a sudden it makes the lyrics from “Jedi Mind Tricks - Shadow Business” make sense. > Slavery's not illegal, that's a fucking lie It's illegal, unless it's for conviction of a crime The main objective is to get you in your fucking prime And keep the prison full and not give you a fucking dime https://genius.com/Jedi-mind-tricks-shadow-business-lyrics https://genius.com/Jedi-mind-tricks-shadow-business-lyrics

lelandfe 4y ago
But thanks to Reaganomics, prison turned to profits Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics Cause slavery was abolished, unless you are in prison You think I am bullshittin? Then read the 13th Amendment Involuntary servitude and slavery it prohibits That's why they givin' drug offenders time in double digits - Killer Mike, Reagan
- acchow 4y ago
  Sick rap, but $11bn is hardly a rounding error in US economics. A larger issue is the prison industrial complex, not the involuntary servitude within it
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- unmole 4y ago
  > Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics Yeah, no.
  - pastacacioepepe 4y ago
    You need to argument when you negate someone's opinion.
    - unmole 4y ago
      Do I also need to argue someone's opinion of the earth being flat?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tomohawk 4y ago

epakai 4y ago
Just explain why Republicans defend confederate statues... There is little to associate the modern Republican party with, for example, Lincoln's party. Are Republicans of today going to enforce those reparations you're waiting on??? Your one-sided painting of the situation is a useless way to frame reality.
- tomohawk 4y ago
  - effingwewt 4y ago
    This is taught in middle school history. Much of history is fought over, and in those instances you'd have had a leg to stand on, but this right here was clear-cut. The fact that the people with the values who called themselves Democrats back then became what are Republicans today. Stop trying to re-write history to fit a narrative, life sucks hard enough without people making stuff up to muddy the waters.
grzm 4y ago
This ignores the realignment of the parties in the 1940s. See the formation of the States' Rights Democratic Party (Dixiecrats). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat
- tomohawk 4y ago
  Stop pushing this big lie. The people in the Dixiecrats are known. There are lists. Can you name 10 that switched parties? You can't.
  - grzm 4y ago

thescriptkiddie 4y ago

For more information on this and the post-civil-war era in general, I highly recommend reading Black Reconstruction in America by W. E. B. Du Bois.