7 ms·

Do you have a better term for it?

by totony 4y ago

goodpoint 4y ago
"labor" and "job"
triceratops 4y ago
High-paid/low-paid labor?
- totony 4y ago
  Skill is a proxy for supply whereas pay is a proxy of supply-demand. It might actually be a better term, since even if you do very skilled labor, you would prefer an union if there was no demand.
- bpodgursky 4y ago
  This is a terrible substitute, since there are a lot of low-paid high-skill jobs (ex, graduate students, TAs). There's a meaningful labor liquidity difference between a job that takes 2 years of training and 2 days of training, and it's important for policy decisions. Sorry?
  - totony 4y ago
    But aren't those low-paid, high skill jobs likely to be unionized? Only issue I see with that term is that union affects pay.
    - bpodgursky 4y ago
      I am not trying to argue about the merits of unionization. I am saying that "low-skill" is a meaningful term we should not drop.
noSyncCloud 4y ago
More exploited | Less exploited?
busterarm 4y ago
Back in my younger years, I worked a lot of unskilled-labor type jobs. The starkest difference that I recognize between people in those jobs and people in my career is that in the former people have a hard time showing up to work on-time or at all and in the latter everyone is pretty tuned in and works hard. It only hit me late in life that success in life really can be just as simple as showing up. I guess what I would say here is that the kind of people who feel that they need collective bargaining agreements probably overlaps quite strongly with the group of people that have a hard time showing up.
- andrepd 4y ago
  Yes grampa, the disadvantaged kid who never got a chance to learn a "skilled job" should just pull himself by the bootstraps, show up, give the manager a firm handshake. Yawn.
  - busterarm 4y ago
    I worked shitty jobs into my 30s before I landed on my career. Suck it up. Also you're missing the point. I didn't say anything about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. You DON'T have to work hard. I said just show up. Every day. On time. That's literally the one thing I've seen in life that differentiates people who are successful in life from those who aren't. And I know bank security guards who show up every day and live fulfilled happy successful lives. What I was saying was that commonly you'll find in unskilled labor jobs are people who don't show up every day. Not all of them but a large number. They won't do the minimum to succeed in life. They need the coddling.
    - andrepd 4y ago
      I'm sorry, but your impression is wrong. The biggest correlate with income is not your punctuality, not hours worked, not productivity. It is this: your parents' income. This directly contradicts the (popular) view that we live in a meritocracy where all you have to do to succeed is work hard and be smart and apply yourself. > What I was saying was that commonly you'll find in unskilled labor jobs are people who don't show up every day. Mind sharing the study of workplace absenteeism that you're basing that opinion on?
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Do you have a better term for it? Apparently the euphemism treadmill is on low-wage labor [1]. Which is dumb, since it literally though not conceptually covers graduate students. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unskilled-labor.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unskilled-labor.asp

Do you have a better term for it?

by totony 4y ago

Do you have a better term for it?

goodpoint 4y ago

"labor" and "job"

triceratops 4y ago

High-paid/low-paid labor?

totony 4y ago
Skill is a proxy for supply whereas pay is a proxy of supply-demand. It might actually be a better term, since even if you do very skilled labor, you would prefer an union if there was no demand.
bpodgursky 4y ago
This is a terrible substitute, since there are a lot of low-paid high-skill jobs (ex, graduate students, TAs). There's a meaningful labor liquidity difference between a job that takes 2 years of training and 2 days of training, and it's important for policy decisions. Sorry?
- totony 4y ago
  But aren't those low-paid, high skill jobs likely to be unionized? Only issue I see with that term is that union affects pay.
  - bpodgursky 4y ago
    I am not trying to argue about the merits of unionization. I am saying that "low-skill" is a meaningful term we should not drop.

noSyncCloud 4y ago

More exploited | Less exploited?

busterarm 4y ago

Back in my younger years, I worked a lot of unskilled-labor type jobs. The starkest difference that I recognize between people in those jobs and people in my career is that in the former people have a hard time showing up to work on-time or at all and in the latter everyone is pretty tuned in and works hard. It only hit me late in life that success in life really can be just as simple as showing up. I guess what I would say here is that the kind of people who feel that they need collective bargaining agreements probably overlaps quite strongly with the group of people that have a hard time showing up.

andrepd 4y ago
Yes grampa, the disadvantaged kid who never got a chance to learn a "skilled job" should just pull himself by the bootstraps, show up, give the manager a firm handshake. Yawn.
- busterarm 4y ago
  I worked shitty jobs into my 30s before I landed on my career. Suck it up. Also you're missing the point. I didn't say anything about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. You DON'T have to work hard. I said just show up. Every day. On time. That's literally the one thing I've seen in life that differentiates people who are successful in life from those who aren't. And I know bank security guards who show up every day and live fulfilled happy successful lives. What I was saying was that commonly you'll find in unskilled labor jobs are people who don't show up every day. Not all of them but a large number. They won't do the minimum to succeed in life. They need the coddling.
  - andrepd 4y ago
    I'm sorry, but your impression is wrong. The biggest correlate with income is not your punctuality, not hours worked, not productivity. It is this: your parents' income. This directly contradicts the (popular) view that we live in a meritocracy where all you have to do to succeed is work hard and be smart and apply yourself. > What I was saying was that commonly you'll find in unskilled labor jobs are people who don't show up every day. Mind sharing the study of workplace absenteeism that you're basing that opinion on?

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Do you have a better term for it? Apparently the euphemism treadmill is on low-wage labor [1]. Which is dumb, since it literally though not conceptually covers graduate students. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unskilled-labor.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/u/unskilled-labor.asp