6 ms·

Government attempting to legislate something they don't understand (especially technology I'd say) is nothing new, its already happening in the UK, in the EU, i

Government attempting to legislate something they don't understand (especially technology I'd say) is nothing new, its already happening in the UK, in the EU, in the states and all around the world. Why we let this pass, I don't know, but its the reality we're living in. But if I'm reading this right, this takes the cake for the worst one yet, or certainly up there.

DyslexicAtheist 4y ago
> this takes the cake for the worst one yet, or certainly up there. my number one is the Australian AABill mandating any Australian citizen working for a tech company can be forced to create backdoors in code and altering their employer about it is illegal. This one is so bad, that if it were China, we'd no longer hire any Chinese nationals anywhere in the world.
- ehnto 4y ago
  I was an Australian freelancing internationally at the time it was introduced, and took pretty good care fully understanding the bill to the best of my ability. It really seems to be as bad as it sounds. But what worried me was that it was actually written quite coherently, I felt like it had been well considered by some people of technical background, but the bill still had ill intent. So I'm not sure what's worse, legislature misunderstanding technology so much that it's harmful, or people using a good understanding of technology to be more precise and underhanded in their abuse.
  - fifteenforty 4y ago
    It's completely outrageous and there is still no momentum to undo it.
- AndrewThrowaway 4y ago
  What if I create a backdoor but during the code review it gets noticed? Or does Australian government also supply some handbook about how to do it properly?
  - margarina72 4y ago
    I mean that'd be a minimum, good guidelines can go a long way. Who's going to maintain this backdoor if you get fired, uh? /s
- 2143 4y ago
  > any Australian citizen working for a tech company can be forced to create backdoors in code and altering their employer about it is illegal What the fish? > This one is so bad, that if it were China, we'd no longer hire any Chinese nationals anywhere in the world. Heck if it was China implementing something like GDPR and the rest of the world was seeing those annoying popups, then: * for 3 months the rest of the world will hate-tolerate it * then somebody will figure out how to get rid of the popups for the rest of the world
DocTomoe 4y ago
> Why we let this pass, I don't know, but its the reality we're living in. Are you willing to hire armed and trained goons to make them stop their ways and kill, maim and/or kill them? Because they are willing to do the same to get their way. And that's why we let this pass. The so-called "monopoly of force" was not given by a "social contract", as Hobbes postulated - it was taken by them through superior force.
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  But we can revoke the "monopoly of force" whenever we* want, without violence. That sounds a lot like a "social contract". * For some value of "we" which differs by jurisdiction: https://ripplejustice.com/2020/01/02/prisoner-voting-uk/ https://ripplejustice.com/2020/01/02/prisoner-voting-uk/
  - DocTomoe 4y ago
    Can you, really? Or are you just replacing the color of their hats, believing that that changes the system?
    - dane-pgp 4y ago
      > just replacing the color of their hats Are you saying that there are literally no policy differences between major political parties in countries like the UK? What about countries that have voting systems that make the legislature more representative of voters' preferences? The only way I can think to steel-man your position is that you're saying "Some unspecified power would intervene to stop a government relinquishing its monopoly on force even if the population overwhelmingly voted for the government to do so". That's hard to imagine though; not because the unspecified power is so vague, but because no country would ever vote like that to remove the protections that a state provides for them.
      - em-bee 4y ago
        in most multi party systems parties cater to the interests and issues of the majority. minority (issue) parties don't have much chance to even get enough votes.
Supermancho 4y ago
> Pop-ups, but British ones. I feel like this whole post, (notably this section) makes bad faith assumptions, then elaborates on the strawmen/bad assertions. > ...no matter what they’re trying to put right in the world – to know the ages of all their visitors or users That's not what it says, explicitly. I interpret it as "it will require most every useful online service to be account-based with hoops at that level, not just some random visitor or on every page". Most of the sections are making reference to having to know the age of users as a pre-requisite to any web activity, in the UK, and I don't see it. Did I miss something or did she?

DyslexicAtheist 4y ago

> this takes the cake for the worst one yet, or certainly up there. my number one is the Australian AABill mandating any Australian citizen working for a tech company can be forced to create backdoors in code and altering their employer about it is illegal. This one is so bad, that if it were China, we'd no longer hire any Chinese nationals anywhere in the world.

ehnto 4y ago
I was an Australian freelancing internationally at the time it was introduced, and took pretty good care fully understanding the bill to the best of my ability. It really seems to be as bad as it sounds. But what worried me was that it was actually written quite coherently, I felt like it had been well considered by some people of technical background, but the bill still had ill intent. So I'm not sure what's worse, legislature misunderstanding technology so much that it's harmful, or people using a good understanding of technology to be more precise and underhanded in their abuse.
- fifteenforty 4y ago
  It's completely outrageous and there is still no momentum to undo it.
AndrewThrowaway 4y ago
What if I create a backdoor but during the code review it gets noticed? Or does Australian government also supply some handbook about how to do it properly?
- margarina72 4y ago
  I mean that'd be a minimum, good guidelines can go a long way. Who's going to maintain this backdoor if you get fired, uh? /s
2143 4y ago
> any Australian citizen working for a tech company can be forced to create backdoors in code and altering their employer about it is illegal What the fish? > This one is so bad, that if it were China, we'd no longer hire any Chinese nationals anywhere in the world. Heck if it was China implementing something like GDPR and the rest of the world was seeing those annoying popups, then: * for 3 months the rest of the world will hate-tolerate it * then somebody will figure out how to get rid of the popups for the rest of the world

DocTomoe 4y ago

> Why we let this pass, I don't know, but its the reality we're living in. Are you willing to hire armed and trained goons to make them stop their ways and kill, maim and/or kill them? Because they are willing to do the same to get their way. And that's why we let this pass. The so-called "monopoly of force" was not given by a "social contract", as Hobbes postulated - it was taken by them through superior force.

dane-pgp 4y ago
But we can revoke the "monopoly of force" whenever we* want, without violence. That sounds a lot like a "social contract". * For some value of "we" which differs by jurisdiction: https://ripplejustice.com/2020/01/02/prisoner-voting-uk/ https://ripplejustice.com/2020/01/02/prisoner-voting-uk/
- DocTomoe 4y ago
  Can you, really? Or are you just replacing the color of their hats, believing that that changes the system?
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    > just replacing the color of their hats Are you saying that there are literally no policy differences between major political parties in countries like the UK? What about countries that have voting systems that make the legislature more representative of voters' preferences? The only way I can think to steel-man your position is that you're saying "Some unspecified power would intervene to stop a government relinquishing its monopoly on force even if the population overwhelmingly voted for the government to do so". That's hard to imagine though; not because the unspecified power is so vague, but because no country would ever vote like that to remove the protections that a state provides for them.
    - em-bee 4y ago
      in most multi party systems parties cater to the interests and issues of the majority. minority (issue) parties don't have much chance to even get enough votes.

Supermancho 4y ago

> Pop-ups, but British ones. I feel like this whole post, (notably this section) makes bad faith assumptions, then elaborates on the strawmen/bad assertions. > ...no matter what they’re trying to put right in the world – to know the ages of all their visitors or users That's not what it says, explicitly. I interpret it as "it will require most every useful online service to be account-based with hoops at that level, not just some random visitor or on every page". Most of the sections are making reference to having to know the age of users as a pre-requisite to any web activity, in the UK, and I don't see it. Did I miss something or did she?