11 ms·

Dog turns on touch-activated stove and starts house fire

35 points by jmkd 4y ago

donatj 4y ago
Touch controls for something as dangerous as a stove top are inherently a mistake. A human could easily have done the same accidentally. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Say what you will about knobs, but the push and turn action is much harder to do by accident.
- puranjay 4y ago
  Most household objects and appliances are better off being as low tech as possible. An acquaintance's daughter died in a house fire because the door had a "smart" lock that malfunctioned in the extreme heat. She was the only casualty in the entire apartment complex because hers was the only apartment with the smart door. Everyone else had conventional door knobs and got out in time. I've since sworn off anything with any smart features whatsoever.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - aaron695 4y ago
    Fire rated doors need the correct fire tested locks. This includes analogue locks. Most locks would not be. You can't/shouldn't put any lock, analogue or electronic on an apartment door. You can of course get fire rated electronic locks. This is not the electronic bit. It's about the quality of the locking mechanism and how it goes in the fire testing furnace.
  - rightbyte 4y ago
    That is terrifying and sad to hear ... I guess you want mechanical knob on the inside to mitigate this? I know multiple friends who have a both-side "smart" door knob. I.e. the inner one is not connected until you turn it and something does something inside with a buzz.
- aaron695 4y ago
  > Say what you will about knobs It's exactly the same. The dogs paw would turn it on with a bump. Same for gas, except it wouldn't ignite, just possibly blow up the apartment. Unless you claim new knobs require a double action...then so could new touch buttons ( our touch induction took multiple actions to turn on which a dog could not do) Don't leave things on the stove is a good lesson here perhaps. I'd also hope the fat was not hot when they left it unattended. I assume the firefighters were alerted early by modern tech, not people yelling out.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > It's exactly the same. The dogs paw would turn it on with a bump. Knobs usually are design to be push-and-turn. Much more difficult for a dog to do accidentally.
  - rightbyte 4y ago
    > Same for gas, except it wouldn't ignite, just possibly blow up the apartment. For any sane stove the gas only flows when pressing the nob unless it is lit.
    - fckthisguy 4y ago
      That's a required security feature in the UK. Also, any gas appliance with non-functioning security features canmot be reconnected to the gas mains. There's plenty of people willing to risk it but forcing the service people to follow rules cuts the risk.
- chrismcv 4y ago
  My dog did similar with a knob based one. Quite a few of the touch based ones have a childlock which would likely solve the issue.
- vannevar 4y ago
- BeFlatXIII 4y ago
  See also: touchscreens in cars.
avian 4y ago
I have a Hoover washing machine with touch buttons. I can't count the number of times I activated something on it unintentionally by brushing against it. It seems the designers were aware of this problem, because it has a key lock feature. Unfortunately it's hillariously ineffective. To activate/deactivate key lock you need to touch two buttons simulateneously. They forgot however that in practice it's almost impossible to activate two buttons at the exactly the same time. So the machine in most cases interprets this as pushing two buttons separately, usually further messing up some setting you wanted to protect by keylock.
- n4jm4 4y ago
  An inverted ROC curve
nonameiguess 4y ago
I get that this is Hacker News catnip and everyone is going to rail against hi-tech and smart home features now, but I have a plain old-fashioned gas stove with knobs and dials and I have seen my cat turn it on before. Not on purpose, of course. She just jumped up there, knocked a dial into position, then sat on it, activating the sparking function. It was pretty scary and I've done what I can to train her not to go up there, but at the same time, stove flames don't leap to the ceiling. Don't keep anything flammable on an unattended stove and it shouldn't start a fire. Note that these people left an unattended pot full of grease sitting on the stove. When you're done cooking, clean up.
amluto 4y ago
I would argue that the right solution is safer stoves that don’t start fires as easily. For example, induction stoves. Gas stoves are incredibly dangerous, and for some reason even modern stoves make no particular effort to turn themselves off of the gas isn’t ignited, to detect dangerous conditions, or otherwise compensate for the inherent dangers of combustion. (Basically any pilot-light-using appliance has a thermocouple and solenoid that will turn off the gas if the pilot light is out.)
- spzb 4y ago
  My gas stove, which is over ten years old, cuts the gas supply if it runs for more than a couple of seconds unlit.
  - amluto 4y ago
    My gas stove will spark futilely about once per second, indefinitely, while filling the room with gas. It’s brilliant.
OJFord 4y ago
And there just happens to be a camera pointing right at it? (And that survives the fire while house is 'badly damaged'.) I'm not suggesting foul play, but that's weird isn't it? Made weirder (to me anyway) by the article not mentioning it at all, just including the video like that's normal, everyone has a recording camera pointing at their hob...
- Karawebnetwork 4y ago
  I don't have cameras in my home because I'm more afraid of privacy issues than thieves. But it is very common these days to have smart cameras in the home. I have many colleagues who have them and use them to keep an eye on the kids and pets. Google Nest cameras, Alexa enabled cameras, third party smart cameras like Ring, the list goes on and on. Even Kodak has a smart camera these days. I wouldn't recommend it but you can get them for as low as $15 on sites like Wish.
  - OJFord 4y ago
    Inside? Pointing at the oven? I know some people do but I can't believe that's that common. Compounded by the odds of your dog triggering your touch-button hob and starting a fat fire, I just thought it was funny.
    - imtringued 4y ago
      People point cameras at their 3d printers for fire safety. A stove is far more dangerous.
      - OJFord 4y ago
        Well first of all, do they? My impression of 3D printers with cameras (you do realise what a niche of a niche that is right?) is that it's primarily used for supervising the print itself (quality etc.) remotely and timelapsing. Secondly, I don't fault your logic, I just think so extremely few people have set up cameras recording the most dangerous (and commonplace) items in their home that it's surprising one of them had such a thing occur to catch on camera, and that it went unremarked.
jmpman 4y ago
My dog has turned on my stove using the touch-actuated controls. Left a pizza box on top of the stove, and she tried to steal a slice, but ended up turning on the burner under the pizza box. Luckily we were nearby. Now, paranoid about it potentially happening again, we have a rule that you must engage the touch lockout (holding a certain button for ~5 seconds), but we’re human, and about 90% successful with that plan. It’s a legit risk.
- asddubs 4y ago
  isn't a better precaution to not store stuff on your stovetop
nick238 4y ago
Tail end of the video has the dog walking calmly in the background. This_is_fine.png
cush 4y ago
I'll take old fashioned buttons and knobs any day. I bought a 3 year old car because the new model only did climate control in the on-screen menu. The basic rule of thumb here is if the user experience doesn't need to change contextually, use hardware buttons. Not everything needs to be an iPhone!
- prvit 4y ago
  > I bought a 3 year old car because the new model only did climate control in the on-screen menu. This complaint always feels so weird to me. I don’t love the initial experience of setting up climate control on a touch screen, but it’s literally something you only need to do once ever. New cars aren’t like old cars, climate control is set and forget now. We’re far past the time of having to constantly adjust it in order to maintain your desired temperature.
  - cush 4y ago
    I mean, these kinds of assumptions are exactly why so many people complain about it. Who is the "we" in your statement? Different people are different. They have different preferences and needs, so any change in people within the car requires changing the system... It's why cars have zones of climate control for everyone. Also, body temperature and ambient temperature are two different things, and different people feel varying levels of discomfort when their bodies are too hot or cold. Some people's bodies regulate their body temperature in different ways. Think the elderly, people of varying BMIs, or someone going through menopause. Also there's countless situational reasons someone might have a body temperature that is different than ambient temperature. Eg it's very cold out and someone just got in the warm car and they need to warm their hands. If you find yourself surprised when so many people complain about a problem that you're not experiencing, you might want to ask them instead of assuming they're ignorant.
    - prvit 4y ago
      > Different people are different. They have different preferences and needs, so any change in people within the car requires changing the system... It's why cars have zones of climate control for everyone So? This stuff is linked to your driver profile. You only need to set it once. > Also there's countless situational reasons someone might have a body temperature that is different than ambient temperature. Eg it's very cold out and someone just got in the warm car and they need to warm their hands I’m so confused, I don’t think modern cars even have a climate control option that would do anything but heat if it’s very cold out. Do people with decent HVAC setups at home really need to adjust their settings very often? What for?

35 points by jmkd 4y ago

Touch controls for something as dangerous as a stove top are inherently a mistake. A human could easily have done the same accidentally. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Say what you will about knobs, but the push and turn action is much harder to do by accident.

puranjay 4y ago
Most household objects and appliances are better off being as low tech as possible. An acquaintance's daughter died in a house fire because the door had a "smart" lock that malfunctioned in the extreme heat. She was the only casualty in the entire apartment complex because hers was the only apartment with the smart door. Everyone else had conventional door knobs and got out in time. I've since sworn off anything with any smart features whatsoever.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- aaron695 4y ago
  Fire rated doors need the correct fire tested locks. This includes analogue locks. Most locks would not be. You can't/shouldn't put any lock, analogue or electronic on an apartment door. You can of course get fire rated electronic locks. This is not the electronic bit. It's about the quality of the locking mechanism and how it goes in the fire testing furnace.
- rightbyte 4y ago
  That is terrifying and sad to hear ... I guess you want mechanical knob on the inside to mitigate this? I know multiple friends who have a both-side "smart" door knob. I.e. the inner one is not connected until you turn it and something does something inside with a buzz.
aaron695 4y ago
> Say what you will about knobs It's exactly the same. The dogs paw would turn it on with a bump. Same for gas, except it wouldn't ignite, just possibly blow up the apartment. Unless you claim new knobs require a double action...then so could new touch buttons ( our touch induction took multiple actions to turn on which a dog could not do) Don't leave things on the stove is a good lesson here perhaps. I'd also hope the fat was not hot when they left it unattended. I assume the firefighters were alerted early by modern tech, not people yelling out.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > It's exactly the same. The dogs paw would turn it on with a bump. Knobs usually are design to be push-and-turn. Much more difficult for a dog to do accidentally.
- rightbyte 4y ago
  > Same for gas, except it wouldn't ignite, just possibly blow up the apartment. For any sane stove the gas only flows when pressing the nob unless it is lit.
  - fckthisguy 4y ago
    That's a required security feature in the UK. Also, any gas appliance with non-functioning security features canmot be reconnected to the gas mains. There's plenty of people willing to risk it but forcing the service people to follow rules cuts the risk.
chrismcv 4y ago
My dog did similar with a knob based one. Quite a few of the touch based ones have a childlock which would likely solve the issue.
vannevar 4y ago
BeFlatXIII 4y ago
See also: touchscreens in cars.

avian 4y ago

I have a Hoover washing machine with touch buttons. I can't count the number of times I activated something on it unintentionally by brushing against it. It seems the designers were aware of this problem, because it has a key lock feature. Unfortunately it's hillariously ineffective. To activate/deactivate key lock you need to touch two buttons simulateneously. They forgot however that in practice it's almost impossible to activate two buttons at the exactly the same time. So the machine in most cases interprets this as pushing two buttons separately, usually further messing up some setting you wanted to protect by keylock.

n4jm4 4y ago
An inverted ROC curve

nonameiguess 4y ago

I get that this is Hacker News catnip and everyone is going to rail against hi-tech and smart home features now, but I have a plain old-fashioned gas stove with knobs and dials and I have seen my cat turn it on before. Not on purpose, of course. She just jumped up there, knocked a dial into position, then sat on it, activating the sparking function. It was pretty scary and I've done what I can to train her not to go up there, but at the same time, stove flames don't leap to the ceiling. Don't keep anything flammable on an unattended stove and it shouldn't start a fire. Note that these people left an unattended pot full of grease sitting on the stove. When you're done cooking, clean up.

amluto 4y ago

I would argue that the right solution is safer stoves that don’t start fires as easily. For example, induction stoves. Gas stoves are incredibly dangerous, and for some reason even modern stoves make no particular effort to turn themselves off of the gas isn’t ignited, to detect dangerous conditions, or otherwise compensate for the inherent dangers of combustion. (Basically any pilot-light-using appliance has a thermocouple and solenoid that will turn off the gas if the pilot light is out.)

spzb 4y ago
My gas stove, which is over ten years old, cuts the gas supply if it runs for more than a couple of seconds unlit.
- amluto 4y ago
  My gas stove will spark futilely about once per second, indefinitely, while filling the room with gas. It’s brilliant.

OJFord 4y ago

And there just happens to be a camera pointing right at it? (And that survives the fire while house is 'badly damaged'.) I'm not suggesting foul play, but that's weird isn't it? Made weirder (to me anyway) by the article not mentioning it at all, just including the video like that's normal, everyone has a recording camera pointing at their hob...

Karawebnetwork 4y ago
I don't have cameras in my home because I'm more afraid of privacy issues than thieves. But it is very common these days to have smart cameras in the home. I have many colleagues who have them and use them to keep an eye on the kids and pets. Google Nest cameras, Alexa enabled cameras, third party smart cameras like Ring, the list goes on and on. Even Kodak has a smart camera these days. I wouldn't recommend it but you can get them for as low as $15 on sites like Wish.
- OJFord 4y ago
  Inside? Pointing at the oven? I know some people do but I can't believe that's that common. Compounded by the odds of your dog triggering your touch-button hob and starting a fat fire, I just thought it was funny.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    People point cameras at their 3d printers for fire safety. A stove is far more dangerous.
    - OJFord 4y ago
      Well first of all, do they? My impression of 3D printers with cameras (you do realise what a niche of a niche that is right?) is that it's primarily used for supervising the print itself (quality etc.) remotely and timelapsing. Secondly, I don't fault your logic, I just think so extremely few people have set up cameras recording the most dangerous (and commonplace) items in their home that it's surprising one of them had such a thing occur to catch on camera, and that it went unremarked.

jmpman 4y ago

My dog has turned on my stove using the touch-actuated controls. Left a pizza box on top of the stove, and she tried to steal a slice, but ended up turning on the burner under the pizza box. Luckily we were nearby. Now, paranoid about it potentially happening again, we have a rule that you must engage the touch lockout (holding a certain button for ~5 seconds), but we’re human, and about 90% successful with that plan. It’s a legit risk.

asddubs 4y ago
isn't a better precaution to not store stuff on your stovetop

nick238 4y ago

Tail end of the video has the dog walking calmly in the background. This_is_fine.png

cush 4y ago

I'll take old fashioned buttons and knobs any day. I bought a 3 year old car because the new model only did climate control in the on-screen menu. The basic rule of thumb here is if the user experience doesn't need to change contextually, use hardware buttons. Not everything needs to be an iPhone!

prvit 4y ago
> I bought a 3 year old car because the new model only did climate control in the on-screen menu. This complaint always feels so weird to me. I don’t love the initial experience of setting up climate control on a touch screen, but it’s literally something you only need to do once ever. New cars aren’t like old cars, climate control is set and forget now. We’re far past the time of having to constantly adjust it in order to maintain your desired temperature.
- cush 4y ago
  I mean, these kinds of assumptions are exactly why so many people complain about it. Who is the "we" in your statement? Different people are different. They have different preferences and needs, so any change in people within the car requires changing the system... It's why cars have zones of climate control for everyone. Also, body temperature and ambient temperature are two different things, and different people feel varying levels of discomfort when their bodies are too hot or cold. Some people's bodies regulate their body temperature in different ways. Think the elderly, people of varying BMIs, or someone going through menopause. Also there's countless situational reasons someone might have a body temperature that is different than ambient temperature. Eg it's very cold out and someone just got in the warm car and they need to warm their hands. If you find yourself surprised when so many people complain about a problem that you're not experiencing, you might want to ask them instead of assuming they're ignorant.
  - prvit 4y ago
    > Different people are different. They have different preferences and needs, so any change in people within the car requires changing the system... It's why cars have zones of climate control for everyone So? This stuff is linked to your driver profile. You only need to set it once. > Also there's countless situational reasons someone might have a body temperature that is different than ambient temperature. Eg it's very cold out and someone just got in the warm car and they need to warm their hands I’m so confused, I don’t think modern cars even have a climate control option that would do anything but heat if it’s very cold out. Do people with decent HVAC setups at home really need to adjust their settings very often? What for?