5 ms·

“forced”

ldoughty 4y ago
sounds like you're either 100% not interested in having children, or are unaware of the impact of delaying the choice on having kids past 35
- kleinsch 4y ago
  Half the commenters on this site are under 25. Every topic about parenting / children makes it pretty obvious.
  - usrn 4y ago
    I think software development in general makes thinking about anything that isn't immediately pragmatic very difficult. HN tends to be pretty rough when it comes to Politics or the harder parts of Philosophy.
- nuclearnice1 4y ago
  Or he’s just a jerk on the Internet with nonspecific POV just reading your comment and trying to find a piece to sark about. Good luck with your IVF!
  - bialpio 4y ago
    I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and put out an opinion that having children is a choice (hopefully), and so living paycheck-to-paycheck also seem to be a choice in this case. It may boil down to defining what choice means, in the extreme "choice is doing something that I don't need to survive" and then IVF meets the definition (but then almost everything else meets it as well...). Definitely not going to defend the way the original opinion was communicated though...
    - nuclearnice1 4y ago
      I agree with all your points. There are all kinds of arguments for having kids or not having kids. It’s a big decision. Also agreed and more that the original communication was insubstantial garbage.
  - ldoughty 4y ago
    Thank you! <3
    - MarkMarine 4y ago
      good luck as well. Sometimes we don't meet the right one until we've found ourselves, I'm happy for you. I'm in a similar boat, 1st kid a couple months before my 40th birthday. My only recommendation is get your butt to the gym, being a parent is an active sport and you don't want your kids running circles around you until it's their time.
- bigDinosaur 4y ago
  I think it's reasonable to point out that it's not forced though. Unless all decisions are forced by the relentless march of time, in which case everything is forced.
  - ldoughty 4y ago
    If you don't have a paycheck you're also not living paycheck to paycheck? It comes down to how you want to live, and what you want from life. For our family having 1 kid was something we wanted / expected. It didn't happen naturally for several years. In 5 years, it would be nearly impossible for us to have a family (of our own genetics), so we were "forced" to go to IVF to have such a kid, or accept that she can't give birth to a child and her family line ends. Certainly, not everyone wants kids, and that's their choice -- I respect that -- I'm just saying it's not REALLY a choice sometimes... Which makes it "forces" about as much as the news article says.. because again, most IT people could remote work from the middle of nowhere.. but that's not what most people "accept".
    - bigDinosaur 4y ago
      Good for you, I have nothing against IVF or kids, to be clear, so long as you think the sacrifice in disposable income is worth it!
- jlarocco 4y ago
  Make all the excuses you want, but the OP isn't "forced" in any real sense. They want children, and they're choosing to pay a high price for them. If the OP made minimum wage would they make the same choice? If they were really "forced" into it, then they would have to.
  - ldoughty 4y ago
    Just like the people making 125k but refusing to leave an expensive city are "forced" to live paycheck to paycheck. You could argue ANYONE making 100k is "choosing" to live paycheck to paycheck.. they could move to Thailand and live comfortably for $1500/month, but they _choose_ to only live in countries where they don't have to learn another language, or leave their family... So we're arguing over what people can reasonably expect from life, and for many, a kid is in that just as much as living in a city. If we NATURALLY had a kid, most people would argue that $1,500-2,000/month in daycare costs is a forced expense, but because we have not been successful naturally have kids, $1,500-2,000/month to have a kid we want is a choice?
    - jlarocco 4y ago
      You don't have to justify your decision to me, but I'm also not going to feel sorry for you.
      - azekai 4y ago
        Well, I feel sorry for them. Fertility issues are no joke.
    - orwin 4y ago
      In Spain, Italy, Portugal, and half of France, you can live comfortably with 1.5k/month, as long as you don't have other obligations.
- foolfoolz 4y ago
  neither of those are true. my issue with the above comment is there are many people who are truly forced to live paycheck to paycheck without luxuries like choosing many thousands of dollars per year IVF. that’s a choice. you can make a lot of choices to live as close to cash flow zero as possible but that doesn’t make it forced. and really it degrades the troubles that many other workers go through who work very hard for their money
  - AYBABTME 4y ago
    So to express your perceived degrading of the struggle of poorer people, you figured the best approach was to take exception of their attempts at having children. You could also have taken a pass. You weren't forced to comment, you made that choice.
  - ldoughty 4y ago
    You're basically saying it's a choice to live with someone you love, and to raise someone you love, and you should only do so if you are already financially stable. If I chose to live with and marry the love of my life, and the results is that I live paycheck to paycheck, is that still a choice? I already said that we BOTH work second jobs to pay for our choice, and I'd argue your comment degrades the troubles that my family is going through to achieve our goals with the money that we're working hard for. I can see people viewing the cost of IVF and seeing it as being wasteful, but when you're in this situation and you've been trying for 5+ years, it's a hard feeling and situation to convey. And ultimately, I find it unfair to say a couple that naturally has a child is "forced" to pay for daycare -- and that is acceptable... but a family who wants to have a child can't pay near the same amount to have the child they want -- that's a choice!....
waynesonfire 4y ago
"High" earner

“forced”

sounds like you're either 100% not interested in having children, or are unaware of the impact of delaying the choice on having kids past 35

kleinsch 4y ago
Half the commenters on this site are under 25. Every topic about parenting / children makes it pretty obvious.
- usrn 4y ago
  I think software development in general makes thinking about anything that isn't immediately pragmatic very difficult. HN tends to be pretty rough when it comes to Politics or the harder parts of Philosophy.
nuclearnice1 4y ago
Or he’s just a jerk on the Internet with nonspecific POV just reading your comment and trying to find a piece to sark about. Good luck with your IVF!
- bialpio 4y ago
  I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and put out an opinion that having children is a choice (hopefully), and so living paycheck-to-paycheck also seem to be a choice in this case. It may boil down to defining what choice means, in the extreme "choice is doing something that I don't need to survive" and then IVF meets the definition (but then almost everything else meets it as well...). Definitely not going to defend the way the original opinion was communicated though...
  - nuclearnice1 4y ago
    I agree with all your points. There are all kinds of arguments for having kids or not having kids. It’s a big decision. Also agreed and more that the original communication was insubstantial garbage.
- ldoughty 4y ago
  Thank you! <3
  - MarkMarine 4y ago
    good luck as well. Sometimes we don't meet the right one until we've found ourselves, I'm happy for you. I'm in a similar boat, 1st kid a couple months before my 40th birthday. My only recommendation is get your butt to the gym, being a parent is an active sport and you don't want your kids running circles around you until it's their time.
bigDinosaur 4y ago
I think it's reasonable to point out that it's not forced though. Unless all decisions are forced by the relentless march of time, in which case everything is forced.
- ldoughty 4y ago
  If you don't have a paycheck you're also not living paycheck to paycheck? It comes down to how you want to live, and what you want from life. For our family having 1 kid was something we wanted / expected. It didn't happen naturally for several years. In 5 years, it would be nearly impossible for us to have a family (of our own genetics), so we were "forced" to go to IVF to have such a kid, or accept that she can't give birth to a child and her family line ends. Certainly, not everyone wants kids, and that's their choice -- I respect that -- I'm just saying it's not REALLY a choice sometimes... Which makes it "forces" about as much as the news article says.. because again, most IT people could remote work from the middle of nowhere.. but that's not what most people "accept".
  - bigDinosaur 4y ago
    Good for you, I have nothing against IVF or kids, to be clear, so long as you think the sacrifice in disposable income is worth it!
jlarocco 4y ago
Make all the excuses you want, but the OP isn't "forced" in any real sense. They want children, and they're choosing to pay a high price for them. If the OP made minimum wage would they make the same choice? If they were really "forced" into it, then they would have to.
- ldoughty 4y ago
  Just like the people making 125k but refusing to leave an expensive city are "forced" to live paycheck to paycheck. You could argue ANYONE making 100k is "choosing" to live paycheck to paycheck.. they could move to Thailand and live comfortably for $1500/month, but they _choose_ to only live in countries where they don't have to learn another language, or leave their family... So we're arguing over what people can reasonably expect from life, and for many, a kid is in that just as much as living in a city. If we NATURALLY had a kid, most people would argue that $1,500-2,000/month in daycare costs is a forced expense, but because we have not been successful naturally have kids, $1,500-2,000/month to have a kid we want is a choice?
  - jlarocco 4y ago
    You don't have to justify your decision to me, but I'm also not going to feel sorry for you.
    - azekai 4y ago
      Well, I feel sorry for them. Fertility issues are no joke.
  - orwin 4y ago
    In Spain, Italy, Portugal, and half of France, you can live comfortably with 1.5k/month, as long as you don't have other obligations.
foolfoolz 4y ago
neither of those are true. my issue with the above comment is there are many people who are truly forced to live paycheck to paycheck without luxuries like choosing many thousands of dollars per year IVF. that’s a choice. you can make a lot of choices to live as close to cash flow zero as possible but that doesn’t make it forced. and really it degrades the troubles that many other workers go through who work very hard for their money
- AYBABTME 4y ago
  So to express your perceived degrading of the struggle of poorer people, you figured the best approach was to take exception of their attempts at having children. You could also have taken a pass. You weren't forced to comment, you made that choice.
- ldoughty 4y ago
  You're basically saying it's a choice to live with someone you love, and to raise someone you love, and you should only do so if you are already financially stable. If I chose to live with and marry the love of my life, and the results is that I live paycheck to paycheck, is that still a choice? I already said that we BOTH work second jobs to pay for our choice, and I'd argue your comment degrades the troubles that my family is going through to achieve our goals with the money that we're working hard for. I can see people viewing the cost of IVF and seeing it as being wasteful, but when you're in this situation and you've been trying for 5+ years, it's a hard feeling and situation to convey. And ultimately, I find it unfair to say a couple that naturally has a child is "forced" to pay for daycare -- and that is acceptable... but a family who wants to have a child can't pay near the same amount to have the child they want -- that's a choice!....

waynesonfire 4y ago

"High" earner