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> We're doing all we can, and working with other financial service providers to make this transition as smooth as possible. The biggest thing for us would be i

> We're doing all we can, and working with other financial service providers to make this transition as smooth as possible. The biggest thing for us would be if you could support Plaid's Identity product by returning names and emails when someone links a Brex account with Plaid. When someone links an account using Plaid, having this data available means we can compare that to the names/emails we have on file and have verified. If it's a match, this makes it _dramatically_ less likely someone is trying to commit ACH fraud against a Brex customer. This makes it safer for us to offer higher ACH pull limits to that customer. Even for customers who never switch away from Brex, this would significantly increase protection from ACH fraud. - Max T, CTO Mercury

xur17 4y ago
I just wanted to say that I absolutely understand why you prefer users to use Plaid's identity product (the startup I work at does this as well), but I HATE that it's becoming the standard way to link checking accounts. Both from a data sharing perspective, and from a training users to enter login information into random forms perspective. There has got to be a better way for us to accomplish this.
- MaxGabriel 4y ago
  > There has got to be a better way for us to accomplish this. One path forward is Oauth, which several major institutions use on Plaid (Capital One, Wells, Chase are ones I know of). This definitely solves “entering login information into random forms”. I’m pretty sure I have seen these institutions offer you some control over what data you share when you link, but it was minimal control, and didn’t work well. Ideally that would be more fleshed out. You’d still be sharing balance and transaction data with Plaid though, that part isn’t solved by Oauth. I think to solve that you need to have a European style standard banking API that makes direct bank-to-bank data sharing tenable?
  - ncallaway 4y ago
    There should be a law for this. The EU as an open banking API law, that requires banks to make this data available electronically over an API. The US needs an open banking law. This should not be an optional feature for banks to offer. It should be an absolute requirement. I think it's insane to enter your credentials into Plaid. Almost every banking agreement I've ever seen disclaims liability if your account is breached because you shared your password. So, if you share your password with Plaid, and Plaid is breached, and someone uses your banking credentials to drain your account, I think a bank could wash their hands of it and walk away in that situation. I'm sure the Plaid engineers are great, and that their data is stored securely (and maybe they don't store the password at all in there systems). But I'm not willing to bet my entire bank account on them being perfect.
    - nemothekid 4y ago
      Plaid is almost 10 years old and I think there are probably several verbatim comments on HN since the introduction of Plaid. Unfortunately I don't think we will ever see a such a law; the landscape has changed from 10 years ago and: 1. Plaid has been pretty much been blessed by the largest player in the space (the , now blocked, acquisition from Visa). 2. The banks are glad to outsource development of banking apis to one single customer. Even CapitalOne who seemed horrified at the integration built an Oauth endpoint. 3. The queue of banking regulations is a mile long and is deeply politically controversial among those who vote. 4. Our geriatrics in congress will never see this as an important issue. It's just easier to not use Plaid.
      - ncallaway 4y ago
        Oh, yes, I would absolutely never use Plaid, or any service that requires it in the meantime. But, there are many services that should exist, that could be safely used, if such an API mandate existed. I actually think it’s a matter of time. Eventually the current state of affairs will lead to a crisis. Someone operating like Plaid (a centralized nexus of banking passwords) will be breached, funds will be drained, and banks will shrug. At that point, the API law becomes much more likely. Banking regulations have a way of moving very slowly until a crisis erupts. Another path is, once most of the bigger banks develop their own APIs, they will probably push for the regulation as a path to making it harder for smaller banks to compete.
- hnov 4y ago
  Plaid is a menace. My checking account was synced on Venmo just fine using the small transfer method for years until plaid was introduced. I redid the old school verification 3 times before giving up and linking via Chase. I changed the password afterwards but of course that unlinked me again. Can’t wait until some regulatory agency comes after them.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  It really annoys me how some service/startup gets build around the large "infrastructure" (in a broader sense) deficiencies in the US. Because of the size of the US market and the amount of VC funding they then become big and move into markets that have had perfectly functioning solutions (like the EU in this case). Because they are so flush with cash (and much conversation/advertising online is very US centric) they then become dominant even in markets which had a perfectly functioning system that never needed they solution. Uber is an example of this (taxis had issues in Europe/Australia as well, but by far not as problematic)
chews 4y ago
Question for ya, Why can’t a Mercury wire or ach successfully clear to Circle? As a Mercury customer what I know is that not a single one I’ve tried has worked resulting in days locked funds.
- MaxGabriel 4y ago
  Iirc, with our current partner bank Evolve + technology provider Synapse, ACHs and wires have “Synapse” as the sender name on a certain field, instead of your business name. This is (as far as I understand) wrong. Fortunately it usually doesn’t break anything, but Circle is more strict about this saying the business name. We have a new partner bank we just launched where we have full control of the ACH stack, where we’ve resolved this. Also trying to fix the issue with the existing partner. Caveat that I didn’t check this answer with anyone, since it’s early.
  - mousetree 4y ago
    We use to be with Synapse and Evolve too - have thankfully moved on ;) We went through the same pain with Synapse that it's their name and not the customer's name on the wire. I thought at Mercury's scale you could get them to change this by now.
- rbehera8000 4y ago
  That is correct. If you are open to a Mercury competitor that works with Circle and is more web3 friendly try https://every.io/ https://every.io/
sam0x17 4y ago
Mercury rejected our LLC when we applied there yesterday so not sure where to go now (and no idea why we were rejected). Is there any reason not to go with Bluevine?
- MaxGabriel 4y ago
  Hey, we looked into this. It looks like you registered in Rhode Island in 2016, but Rhode Island later revoked your business registration: http://business.sos.ri.gov/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2022/0415/000250918/0016/202214849680_1.pdf http://business.sos.ri.gov/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedi... https://opencorporates.com/filings/1091852658 https://opencorporates.com/filings/1091852658 Does this sound correct to you / if so can you remedy it with Rhode Island? (edit: our onboarding team says you specifically want a Certificate of Good Standing from the state) That said, this should have been communicated as a clear rejection reason—we'll work on that.
  - sam0x17 4y ago
    Yeah we are waiting on accountant to finish taxes (which are on extension) for 2021 so we can submit and get a statement of good standing with RI so we can renew our registration. Mail forwarding failed to forward our annual statement document for 2021 so we won't be in good standing with RI until that happens. I got in touch with accountant today to see if they can escelate but they are still a few weeks out.
  - sam0x17 4y ago
    update: I have been in touch with RI. Should be a month or so and we will get a certificate.
- rbehera8000 4y ago
  We accept LLCs at Every.io, which is a Mercury alternative: https://every.io/ https://every.io/
  - robertw4774 4y ago

xur17 4y ago

I just wanted to say that I absolutely understand why you prefer users to use Plaid's identity product (the startup I work at does this as well), but I HATE that it's becoming the standard way to link checking accounts. Both from a data sharing perspective, and from a training users to enter login information into random forms perspective. There has got to be a better way for us to accomplish this.

MaxGabriel 4y ago
> There has got to be a better way for us to accomplish this. One path forward is Oauth, which several major institutions use on Plaid (Capital One, Wells, Chase are ones I know of). This definitely solves “entering login information into random forms”. I’m pretty sure I have seen these institutions offer you some control over what data you share when you link, but it was minimal control, and didn’t work well. Ideally that would be more fleshed out. You’d still be sharing balance and transaction data with Plaid though, that part isn’t solved by Oauth. I think to solve that you need to have a European style standard banking API that makes direct bank-to-bank data sharing tenable?
- ncallaway 4y ago
  There should be a law for this. The EU as an open banking API law, that requires banks to make this data available electronically over an API. The US needs an open banking law. This should not be an optional feature for banks to offer. It should be an absolute requirement. I think it's insane to enter your credentials into Plaid. Almost every banking agreement I've ever seen disclaims liability if your account is breached because you shared your password. So, if you share your password with Plaid, and Plaid is breached, and someone uses your banking credentials to drain your account, I think a bank could wash their hands of it and walk away in that situation. I'm sure the Plaid engineers are great, and that their data is stored securely (and maybe they don't store the password at all in there systems). But I'm not willing to bet my entire bank account on them being perfect.
  - nemothekid 4y ago
    Plaid is almost 10 years old and I think there are probably several verbatim comments on HN since the introduction of Plaid. Unfortunately I don't think we will ever see a such a law; the landscape has changed from 10 years ago and: 1. Plaid has been pretty much been blessed by the largest player in the space (the , now blocked, acquisition from Visa). 2. The banks are glad to outsource development of banking apis to one single customer. Even CapitalOne who seemed horrified at the integration built an Oauth endpoint. 3. The queue of banking regulations is a mile long and is deeply politically controversial among those who vote. 4. Our geriatrics in congress will never see this as an important issue. It's just easier to not use Plaid.
    - ncallaway 4y ago
      Oh, yes, I would absolutely never use Plaid, or any service that requires it in the meantime. But, there are many services that should exist, that could be safely used, if such an API mandate existed. I actually think it’s a matter of time. Eventually the current state of affairs will lead to a crisis. Someone operating like Plaid (a centralized nexus of banking passwords) will be breached, funds will be drained, and banks will shrug. At that point, the API law becomes much more likely. Banking regulations have a way of moving very slowly until a crisis erupts. Another path is, once most of the bigger banks develop their own APIs, they will probably push for the regulation as a path to making it harder for smaller banks to compete.
hnov 4y ago
Plaid is a menace. My checking account was synced on Venmo just fine using the small transfer method for years until plaid was introduced. I redid the old school verification 3 times before giving up and linking via Chase. I changed the password afterwards but of course that unlinked me again. Can’t wait until some regulatory agency comes after them.
cycomanic 4y ago
It really annoys me how some service/startup gets build around the large "infrastructure" (in a broader sense) deficiencies in the US. Because of the size of the US market and the amount of VC funding they then become big and move into markets that have had perfectly functioning solutions (like the EU in this case). Because they are so flush with cash (and much conversation/advertising online is very US centric) they then become dominant even in markets which had a perfectly functioning system that never needed they solution. Uber is an example of this (taxis had issues in Europe/Australia as well, but by far not as problematic)

chews 4y ago

Question for ya, Why can’t a Mercury wire or ach successfully clear to Circle? As a Mercury customer what I know is that not a single one I’ve tried has worked resulting in days locked funds.

MaxGabriel 4y ago
Iirc, with our current partner bank Evolve + technology provider Synapse, ACHs and wires have “Synapse” as the sender name on a certain field, instead of your business name. This is (as far as I understand) wrong. Fortunately it usually doesn’t break anything, but Circle is more strict about this saying the business name. We have a new partner bank we just launched where we have full control of the ACH stack, where we’ve resolved this. Also trying to fix the issue with the existing partner. Caveat that I didn’t check this answer with anyone, since it’s early.
- mousetree 4y ago
  We use to be with Synapse and Evolve too - have thankfully moved on ;) We went through the same pain with Synapse that it's their name and not the customer's name on the wire. I thought at Mercury's scale you could get them to change this by now.
rbehera8000 4y ago
That is correct. If you are open to a Mercury competitor that works with Circle and is more web3 friendly try https://every.io/ https://every.io/

sam0x17 4y ago

Mercury rejected our LLC when we applied there yesterday so not sure where to go now (and no idea why we were rejected). Is there any reason not to go with Bluevine?

MaxGabriel 4y ago
Hey, we looked into this. It looks like you registered in Rhode Island in 2016, but Rhode Island later revoked your business registration: http://business.sos.ri.gov/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedirector.aspx?Action=PDF&Path=CORP_DRIVE1/2022/0415/000250918/0016/202214849680_1.pdf http://business.sos.ri.gov/CorpWeb/CorpSearch/CorpSearchRedi... https://opencorporates.com/filings/1091852658 https://opencorporates.com/filings/1091852658 Does this sound correct to you / if so can you remedy it with Rhode Island? (edit: our onboarding team says you specifically want a Certificate of Good Standing from the state) That said, this should have been communicated as a clear rejection reason—we'll work on that.
- sam0x17 4y ago
  Yeah we are waiting on accountant to finish taxes (which are on extension) for 2021 so we can submit and get a statement of good standing with RI so we can renew our registration. Mail forwarding failed to forward our annual statement document for 2021 so we won't be in good standing with RI until that happens. I got in touch with accountant today to see if they can escelate but they are still a few weeks out.
- sam0x17 4y ago
  update: I have been in touch with RI. Should be a month or so and we will get a certificate.
rbehera8000 4y ago
We accept LLCs at Every.io, which is a Mercury alternative: https://every.io/ https://every.io/
- robertw4774 4y ago