5 ms·

It's worse than you think. The definition of a Covered Platform is so overbroad that basically if you allow any kind of user interaction on your website (or OPE

It's worse than you think. The definition of a Covered Platform is so overbroad that basically if you allow any kind of user interaction on your website (or OPERATING SYSTEM!) then yours is a covered platform. So imagine you run a restaurant and allow for a customer feedback form that is visible on the website... congratulations, you've now become a covered platform and are obliged to allow other people to sell products on your website. No, I'm not kidding. That is precisely how badly written this thing is.

EMIRELADERO 4y ago
Doesn't the bill text also have thresholds that need to be met (such as revenue, user quantity, etc) for you to be subject to enforcement?
- EarlKing 4y ago
  Does that make it any better? "Oh, hey, here's this absolutely horrible law, but don't worry, it only applies if you're successful."
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    Yes, if the intent is to regulate monopolies. You know what you call a small cap monopoly? Not a monopoly.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
      Let's say I make a miracle drug for people with a rare disease, patent it, and it costs $0.01 to produce, and I'll watch people die unless they pay me >$1M. Am I a monopoly since I only have a few million in revenue?
      - ethbr0 4y ago
        Not in the sense that we're worried about here. I feel like I shouldn't have to spell this out, but we're using "monopoly" in the sense of "monopolistic abuse specifically enabled by large revenue and/or platform gatekeeping." Whether you think other kinds of monopolies are a problem or not is immaterial, because we're talking about a specific type of monopoly, that a number of us do have a problem with.
        uhuruity 4y ago
        I have several friends who work in antitrust consulting. My understanding from listening to them talk is that monopolists are defined with respect to a market, and defining the relevant market is a task in itself. Surely the defining characteristic of a monopolist is that it has a high proportion of the market share for a given market, and it is not required that the market in question be large? You can have a monopoly over a small market.
        ethbr0 4y ago
        Afaik, that's the (modern, post-1918, [0]) definition of a monopoly under Sherman Antitrust Act (of 1890). And specifically, that a monopoly's nature and actions "[must] suppress or even destroy competition." Think duck typing. Unfortunately, US vs ATT was never decided, as ATT volunteered to be broken up in 1982. But the broader approach seems to have been that small monopolies are not harmful to the public good, as they face the potential of competitors (sometimes, larger ones) expanding from unrelated fields into their business. It's only when a successful company leverages its success into a size (and dominance) that makes competition impossible that it becomes a legally actionable monopoly (by restricting even the possibility of competition). [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Board_of_Trade_v._United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Board_of_Trade_v._Un...
        uhuruity 4y ago
        Ooh, I didn't know this. I will go to the next discussion with my antitrust friends armed with my new info. Thanks for sharing this!
      - Kranar 4y ago
        Under WTO rules, pharmaceutical patents are subject to compulsory licensing meaning a competitor would be allowed to use your patent whether you like it or not. Yes you would be entitled to a royalty but the rate is unlikely to be as egregious as 1 million dollars per unit.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        If you create such a miracle drug why on earth would we want a policy that lets people die?
        judge2020 4y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli#Daraprim_price-hike_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli#Daraprim_price-...
        HWR_14 4y ago
        It seems like the system in fact pushed back on Martin's pricing
        judge2020 4y ago
        He only got reprimanded because of how braizen we was, accepting news interviews and showing no remorse for the insane price increase. Without the news focus he probably would've avoided jail time (he was just released last month serving over 4 years of his 7 year sentence).
      - takeda 4y ago
        ehh... the whole idea for this bill is to prevent use of advantages gained from monopoly to create additional monopolies.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  Yes. The thresholds are insanely high - like 1 in 8 people use it. Literally. 50 million US MAU or 1 billion worldwide (a smaller threshold of 100k business customers). And a market cap of 550 billion dollars (which automatically adjusts with inflation).
  - judge2020 4y ago
    > which automatically adjusts with inflation) For reference: > adjusted for inflation on the basis of the Consumer Price Index; Hmm... I wonder if this sort of verbiage might make much more of an impact on a hundred million working class Americans' lives if it were applied to other sections of the US Code...
    - notagoodidea 4y ago
      "It could but not alone but it helps." coming from an stranger in the Internet working in one of the few countries where salary is adjusted for inflation.
    - throwawy6969 4y ago
  - greyface- 4y ago
    Linux has more than 50 million US MAU, no?
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      Not as an online platform, no. Or at least not as one owned by the Linux Foundation or Linus.
      - greyface- 4y ago
        AICOA 2(a)(9): ONLINE PLATFORM.—The term “online platform” means a website, online or mobile application, operating system, digital assistant, or online service that— (A) enables a user to generate content that can be viewed by other users on the platform or to interact with other content on the platform; (B) facilitates the offering, advertising, sale, purchase, payment, or shipping of products or services, including software applications, between and among consumers or businesses not controlled by the platform operator; or (C) enables user searches or queries that access or display a large volume of information. It's an "operating system" that certainly meets (C) and arguably meets (A) and (B) as well.

EMIRELADERO 4y ago

Doesn't the bill text also have thresholds that need to be met (such as revenue, user quantity, etc) for you to be subject to enforcement?

EarlKing 4y ago
Does that make it any better? "Oh, hey, here's this absolutely horrible law, but don't worry, it only applies if you're successful."
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Yes, if the intent is to regulate monopolies. You know what you call a small cap monopoly? Not a monopoly.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    Let's say I make a miracle drug for people with a rare disease, patent it, and it costs $0.01 to produce, and I'll watch people die unless they pay me >$1M. Am I a monopoly since I only have a few million in revenue?
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      Not in the sense that we're worried about here. I feel like I shouldn't have to spell this out, but we're using "monopoly" in the sense of "monopolistic abuse specifically enabled by large revenue and/or platform gatekeeping." Whether you think other kinds of monopolies are a problem or not is immaterial, because we're talking about a specific type of monopoly, that a number of us do have a problem with.
      - uhuruity 4y ago
        I have several friends who work in antitrust consulting. My understanding from listening to them talk is that monopolists are defined with respect to a market, and defining the relevant market is a task in itself. Surely the defining characteristic of a monopolist is that it has a high proportion of the market share for a given market, and it is not required that the market in question be large? You can have a monopoly over a small market.
        ethbr0 4y ago
        Afaik, that's the (modern, post-1918, [0]) definition of a monopoly under Sherman Antitrust Act (of 1890). And specifically, that a monopoly's nature and actions "[must] suppress or even destroy competition." Think duck typing. Unfortunately, US vs ATT was never decided, as ATT volunteered to be broken up in 1982. But the broader approach seems to have been that small monopolies are not harmful to the public good, as they face the potential of competitors (sometimes, larger ones) expanding from unrelated fields into their business. It's only when a successful company leverages its success into a size (and dominance) that makes competition impossible that it becomes a legally actionable monopoly (by restricting even the possibility of competition). [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Board_of_Trade_v._United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Board_of_Trade_v._Un...
        uhuruity 4y ago
        Ooh, I didn't know this. I will go to the next discussion with my antitrust friends armed with my new info. Thanks for sharing this!
    - Kranar 4y ago
      Under WTO rules, pharmaceutical patents are subject to compulsory licensing meaning a competitor would be allowed to use your patent whether you like it or not. Yes you would be entitled to a royalty but the rate is unlikely to be as egregious as 1 million dollars per unit.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      If you create such a miracle drug why on earth would we want a policy that lets people die?
      - judge2020 4y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli#Daraprim_price-hike_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli#Daraprim_price-...
        HWR_14 4y ago
        It seems like the system in fact pushed back on Martin's pricing
        judge2020 4y ago
        He only got reprimanded because of how braizen we was, accepting news interviews and showing no remorse for the insane price increase. Without the news focus he probably would've avoided jail time (he was just released last month serving over 4 years of his 7 year sentence).
    - takeda 4y ago
      ehh... the whole idea for this bill is to prevent use of advantages gained from monopoly to create additional monopolies.
HWR_14 4y ago
Yes. The thresholds are insanely high - like 1 in 8 people use it. Literally. 50 million US MAU or 1 billion worldwide (a smaller threshold of 100k business customers). And a market cap of 550 billion dollars (which automatically adjusts with inflation).
- judge2020 4y ago
  > which automatically adjusts with inflation) For reference: > adjusted for inflation on the basis of the Consumer Price Index; Hmm... I wonder if this sort of verbiage might make much more of an impact on a hundred million working class Americans' lives if it were applied to other sections of the US Code...
  - notagoodidea 4y ago
    "It could but not alone but it helps." coming from an stranger in the Internet working in one of the few countries where salary is adjusted for inflation.
  - throwawy6969 4y ago
- greyface- 4y ago
  Linux has more than 50 million US MAU, no?
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    Not as an online platform, no. Or at least not as one owned by the Linux Foundation or Linus.
    - greyface- 4y ago
      AICOA 2(a)(9): ONLINE PLATFORM.—The term “online platform” means a website, online or mobile application, operating system, digital assistant, or online service that— (A) enables a user to generate content that can be viewed by other users on the platform or to interact with other content on the platform; (B) facilitates the offering, advertising, sale, purchase, payment, or shipping of products or services, including software applications, between and among consumers or businesses not controlled by the platform operator; or (C) enables user searches or queries that access or display a large volume of information. It's an "operating system" that certainly meets (C) and arguably meets (A) and (B) as well.