3 ms·

But there's been an unnatural rise in instances of alleged gender dysphoria. I have no idea about any of the facts surrounding this issue, just wanted to point

by dcow 4y ago

But there's been an unnatural rise in instances of alleged gender dysphoria. I have no idea about any of the facts surrounding this issue, just wanted to point out that some X simply existing prior to a point in time when something else Y was introduced to the environment does not mean that Y cannot have any effect on the rate of instance of X. Edit: I don't mean unnatural in a bad way. I mean it like something has caused the previous rate to change in a noticeable way that warrants studying. s/unnatural/noticeable

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jokoon 4y ago
That's what I would think, but actually it's just that gay rights have improved, and trans people are just asking to be heard too. It's a social awakening, it's not linked to chemicals.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  How can you know its not both? What we are seeing is some chemicals are clearly disrupting hormones and its something we have tested pretty well in other animals. At the minimum I don't think that we can rule out new chemicals as a part. It also seems likely that gender dysphoria and sexuality are very different things that can't be reasoned about the same way.
  - tylerpipe 4y ago
    Some sexologists do consider this to be related to sexuality. For example, Anne Lawrence, who has considerable expertise with gender dysphoria, has noted that in many cases it appears to be a type of 'erotic target identity inversion', in which the subject of sexual desire is oneself in a different physical form - in this case, the opposite sex.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- yarg 4y ago
  It can be both (it almost certainly is). And as for the social awakening, acceptance is one thing (marriage and rights were a long time coming) - denial of reality for the sake of people's feelings is quite another. 100% of all LGBTQ+ people have some form of a fertility disorder. I'm not saying that to be cruel or unkind - but if the gametes don't meet, there can be no zygote. At an individual level it does not matter to me in the least - but when it comes to the question of universal fertility it's a different matter.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > 100% of all LGBTQ+ people have some form of a fertility disorder. > I'm not saying that to be cruel or unkind - but if the gametes don't meet, there can be no zygote. gametes can easily meet in BTQ+ relationships. L&G, too, especially if there is T involved. cis-cis L & G relationships aren't the whole of the LGBTQ+ space.
    - oonaw 4y ago
      > L&G, too, especially if there is T involved. If T is involved, e.g. a woman being impregnated by a trans-identifying male, then that would be a heterosexual pairing, not a homosexual one.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        Even if we accept that your use of language may in some sense be legitimate, it's not accurate as far as the term LGBTQ+ that you borrowed is defined, so it doesn't matter.
        oonaw 4y ago
        It matters to people who are actually lesbian or gay, as an accurate definition of our sexuality. I mean, just have a look at this article, it explains exactly what happens when heterosexuals start identifying into homosexuality https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385.
- samhyde69 4y ago
pengstrom 4y ago
Why is it an "unnatural" rise? How do we distinguish it from a natural rise?
- Gigachad 4y ago
  We can't. That's why its such a difficult thing to study let alone the political issues of such a study. It seems almost obvious that some rise is a rise in reporting but its not possible to rule out other factors either. And these other factors seem pretty likely considering we can observe them in tests on other animals.
- yarg 4y ago
  Because to the extent that it's induced by chemicals that have never naturally existed, it's unnatural?
CuriouslyC 4y ago
There's been a rise in autism during the same period, some people chalk that up to increased diagnosis but pollution is a very reasonable hypothesis as well.

by dcow 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jokoon 4y ago

That's what I would think, but actually it's just that gay rights have improved, and trans people are just asking to be heard too. It's a social awakening, it's not linked to chemicals.

Gigachad 4y ago
How can you know its not both? What we are seeing is some chemicals are clearly disrupting hormones and its something we have tested pretty well in other animals. At the minimum I don't think that we can rule out new chemicals as a part. It also seems likely that gender dysphoria and sexuality are very different things that can't be reasoned about the same way.
- tylerpipe 4y ago
  Some sexologists do consider this to be related to sexuality. For example, Anne Lawrence, who has considerable expertise with gender dysphoria, has noted that in many cases it appears to be a type of 'erotic target identity inversion', in which the subject of sexual desire is oneself in a different physical form - in this case, the opposite sex.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
yarg 4y ago
It can be both (it almost certainly is). And as for the social awakening, acceptance is one thing (marriage and rights were a long time coming) - denial of reality for the sake of people's feelings is quite another. 100% of all LGBTQ+ people have some form of a fertility disorder. I'm not saying that to be cruel or unkind - but if the gametes don't meet, there can be no zygote. At an individual level it does not matter to me in the least - but when it comes to the question of universal fertility it's a different matter.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > 100% of all LGBTQ+ people have some form of a fertility disorder. > I'm not saying that to be cruel or unkind - but if the gametes don't meet, there can be no zygote. gametes can easily meet in BTQ+ relationships. L&G, too, especially if there is T involved. cis-cis L & G relationships aren't the whole of the LGBTQ+ space.
  - oonaw 4y ago
    > L&G, too, especially if there is T involved. If T is involved, e.g. a woman being impregnated by a trans-identifying male, then that would be a heterosexual pairing, not a homosexual one.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      Even if we accept that your use of language may in some sense be legitimate, it's not accurate as far as the term LGBTQ+ that you borrowed is defined, so it doesn't matter.
      - oonaw 4y ago
        It matters to people who are actually lesbian or gay, as an accurate definition of our sexuality. I mean, just have a look at this article, it explains exactly what happens when heterosexuals start identifying into homosexuality https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385.
samhyde69 4y ago

pengstrom 4y ago

Why is it an "unnatural" rise? How do we distinguish it from a natural rise?

Gigachad 4y ago
We can't. That's why its such a difficult thing to study let alone the political issues of such a study. It seems almost obvious that some rise is a rise in reporting but its not possible to rule out other factors either. And these other factors seem pretty likely considering we can observe them in tests on other animals.
yarg 4y ago
Because to the extent that it's induced by chemicals that have never naturally existed, it's unnatural?

CuriouslyC 4y ago

There's been a rise in autism during the same period, some people chalk that up to increased diagnosis but pollution is a very reasonable hypothesis as well.