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SpaceX staff condemn Musk's behavior in open letter
- adb2020 4y agoHopefully they singed it so that he knows who to fire
- JaimeThompson 4y agoWhy would a free speech absolutist fire people for using their free speech?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mwint 4y agoSaying free-speech principles are important in the public square, which he asserts Twitter et al are part of, is very different from tolerating all forms of speech from your own employees in the context of their job.
- JaimeThompson 4y agoHe claimed to be a free speech absolutist, not a supporter of free speech principles. I chose to read that as a highly intelligent person using the words he wants to use to describe his position accurately, I also expect him to live by that position given he has the means to do so.
- kadoban 4y agoThere will always be some excuse why the speech he doesn't like is different, and not subject to his supposed priciples.
- fallingfrog 4y agoI guess if they singed it out of key, he might have to
- an9n 4y agoI'm worried they might have got their fingers burnt!
- memish 4y ago> While it's unknown how many of SpaceX's 12,000 employees have signed the letter If prior letters like this are any indication, it's on the order of 12 out of 12,000.
- Apocryphon 4y ago> The Verge's sources also shared screenshots of a supportive Microsoft Teams discussion between 100-plus employees. The Teams channel where the letter was posted reportedly has more than 2,600 members.
- memish 4y agoWhat a desperate attempt to include some big numbers. "It was shared and discussed on HackerNews, a forum with reportedly more than 1,000,000 members"
- kareemsabri 4y agoI don't think that indicates much. People join channels at companies to spectate.
- propogandist 4y ago>The Teams channel where the letter was posted reportedly has more than 2,600 members. there's a lot of spam posted in large company channels that doesn't drive any engagement. The Verge is eager to play up the significance of this effort to drive clicks, as they're "breaking" this story. They've timed the release well to capitalize on the Elon coverage
- ben_w 4y agoI’d expect 1% (120) of virtually any group that size to assent to almost any proposition no matter how ridiculous, some genuinely and others only though misunderstanding it (and yes, misunderstanding is still possible with smart people, been there done that both ways around). 12 people would mean it wasn’t popular enough to share with everyone.
- sn0w_crash 4y agoThey need to include how many people signed this thing. If it’s 1 would they still write this article?
- mwint 4y agoThey’d probably write the article if it was 0 (written by someone outside the company).
- anorphirith 4y agoI used to have high regard for theregister.com
- assttoasstmgr 4y agoIt's his company and they chose to work there. It's like repeatedly patronizing a restaurant then loudly complaining how much the chef sucks. You're free to eat elsewhere or build your own spaceship company.
- masswerk 4y agoSo a cockpit crew should shut up and follow their captain obediently into destructive failure, since they chose to fly under him, while being free to choose any other carrier to work with?
- assttoasstmgr 4y agoYes. The person in the left seat of an aircraft is unquestionably in charge and responsible for the safety of the crew and passengers. An aircraft is not a commune; there is a chain of command. If you don't like it you can leave. You are allowing your emotions and dislike of Musk to cloud your judgement.
- Apocryphon 4y agoCorporations are neither aircraft nor ships at sea. They're subject to boards and other mechanisms to check the power of the chief executive. There are unofficial ways to express dissatisfaction or no-confidence towards that leader, without it being considered outright mutiny.
- assttoasstmgr 4y agoAgreed. However nothing annoys me more than people who join a company only to immediately start complaining about how much they dislike the culture. It just so happens the culture at SpaceX revolves around one guy. You can... leave... if you don't like it. Everyone knows this yet we're all supposed to act like SpaceX engineers were trafficked here in shipping containers and working to pay off a slave debt. No. The money is likely too good so they'd rather complain instead. The entitlement expressed by the individuals involved has buried the needle.
- schmeckleberg 4y agoAll I have to say about this is thank goodness for Gwynne Shotwell and JB Straubel. They adult so that Ol' Musky doesn't have to. Like, thank you Musk for backing smart people like Gwynne and JB and giving the powder that they need to fire their flintlocks of excellence. Dislike, no thank you Musk for your distracting and pointless pre-occupation with meme currencies and "I am 14 and I just read Heinlein and this is deep"-tier libertarian twitterings.
- ncmncm 4y agoShotwell has also lied about suborbital transport and about colonizing Mars.
- wolverine876 4y agoA better link is the Verge story, which includes more reporting and the entire letter. The Register story might be based on The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/16/23170228/spacex-elon-musk-internal-open-letter-behavior https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/16/23170228/spacex-elon-musk...
- wolverine876 4y agoAt best, Musk has responsibilities to the company, its shareholders, employees, and other stakeholders, and Musk is choosing public behavior that risks, rather than serves those responsibilities. The behavior is clearly not chosen to help those parties, and that's Musk's job. The subtext is the unspoken 'culture war' - everyone sees it, so it's a bit bizarre to me that it's unspoken - between, on one hand, a subculture in society (including on the Internet and in business) that celebrates power (including its abuse and corruption) and disruption; and on the other hand, one that advocates responsibility, basic human dignity, productivity, and innovation. IMHO, the former subculture, of power and disruption, is indefensible. Maybe that's why the contest is unspoken, and instead we debate Musk's behavior as a proxy.
- kareemsabri 4y agoHow is the culture war unspoken? Unless you're talking about some other culture war than the one that's been raging for like a decade.
- wolverine876 4y agoI'm not talking about the reactionary - classical liberalism culture war, if that's what you mean. I'm talking about the one described in my comment.
- kareemsabri 4y agoOkay, I don't think everyone sees that one, but maybe it's only me who doesn't see it and everyone else does.
- wolverine876 4y agoWell, I did say it was 'unspoken'. It's brazenly obvious to me, but maybe somehow other people don't see what I see. Look at the people who love to defend sociopathic behavior in every form (or at least, that's what I perceive). That's one side of it.
- 4y ago
- goldenchrome 4y agoI’ve been following Musk on Twitter for a few months and I haven’t seen anything worth condemning. His tweets often seem like thoughts off the top of his head, ie not written by a PR employee. It feels like the issue people have is with his tone. Perhaps people aren’t used to seeing public figures who doesn’t meticulously manage their image. Almost everyone is beholden to an employer, a committee, or an oversight board of some kind so we all have to censor our public thoughts to a huge extent. I think some people are upset that Elon doesn’t have to, and they’re upset that he’s “above the law”. Woke culture truly is the new church.
- jltsiren 4y agoIt's often impossible to separate the content of the message from the tone. Back when I was a student, there was a professor emeritus of communications who liked to say things like "communication usually fails, except by accident". The idea was that if you intend to say something but many people interpret it otherwise, that was you failure to communicate. Musk is certainly smart enough to realize that his tone changes the meaning of what he says, but he keeps doing it anyway. That makes him a kind of a troll. The thing with trolls is that people often don't like them. They may barely tolerate trolls they agree with and actively hate ones they disagree with. Musk reminds me of another person: a former communist (of the minority faction who supported the USSR) who later made a 180-degree turn and became a successful investment banker. He is one of the richest people in Finland who didn't inherit their fortune, and he is probably also one of the most hated people in the country. And he genuinely enjoys trolling. Often when business leaders or right-wing ideologists have something that needs saying but can't be said aloud, they let him say it.
- anitil 4y ago> "communication usually fails, except by accident" I feel like I don't understand this. Is the idea that you need to try very hard to communicate well?
- bcbrown 4y ago> Back when I was a student, there was a professor emeritus of communications who liked to say things like "communication usually fails, except by accident". Are you talking about Osmo A. Wiio? https://jkorpela.fi/wiio.html https://jkorpela.fi/wiio.html
- an9n 4y ago
- stevenalowe 4y ago“every Tweet that Elon sends is a de facto public statement by the company.” Which company? All of them? Elon has no individual identity or voice any more? Elon on twitter is obviously speaking as and for Elon, not representing a specific company.
- assttoasstmgr 4y agoHe just needs to update his profile to say "Opinions are my own. RT != endorsement". Then you can say whatever you want. Even journalists can blatantly lie. It gives you complete indemnity! Those are the rules of engagement bestowed upon most blue-checks on Twitter.
- ben_w 4y agoIs this the same source of legal advice that said people could ignore covid regulations by sticking a printout of the famous Magna Carta in their window? :P
- thephyber 4y agoHe uses his same Twitter channel to announce plans for his companies and to use “pedos” as slang to describe others and talk up shitcoins. It is his fault that people confuse his private life and his fiduciary responsibilities because he doesn’t distinguish them.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago>Elon on twitter is obviously speaking as and for Elon, not representing a specific company. This is absolutely incorrect. I don't know about SpaceX, but Tesla notified the markets in a 2013 filing that it intended to use Musk's Twitter account for official announcements. There was very well-covered SEC enforcement that followed. Source: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226
- ncmncm 4y agoMaybe they could get him to stop lying about colonizing Mars, while they're at it. (Starship is wholly inadequate to even start colonizing Mars. It might be just barely adequate to start an outpost with a half-dozen staff. It probably could support an active moon base.) He has anyway not lied about the possibility of suborbital passenger or freight service lately, to my knowledge. BTW, Shotwell has, too.
- oneoff786 4y agoMars has a lot of problems to solve, but as far as freight goes starship seems totally adequate to me. What exactly is the problem?
- ncmncm 4y agoStarters, it takes a hell of a lot more than freight to make a colony. Starship is wholly inadequate to take more than 17 crew to Mars; that would be if you don't mind some killed on the way there. So, you send 4 or 5 cargo ships, 500 tons of stuff, and two ships swinging on the ends of a cable, so their bones don't melt on the way there. (Which, BTW, takes 9, not 6, months.) Maybe one is a spare, with everything duplicated. The main ship fits 8 crew with just-tolerable comfort, with stuff you will actually need for 9 months unimaginably distant from all possibility of help. Change of underwear, you think? Water, food. Air? Space suits, to go outside when they arrive? Maybe a hand truck. They get there, and now have to unship and set up 500 tons of crap. It only weighs 170-some tons, which is not much better. Set up a massive solar farm and methane and oxygen factory. Debug it. Assemble vehicles, freight handlers, bulldozer and excavator. Individual pod huts, so crew can sometimes get away from others they have come to detest. Look around and think, "This place is a dump." Because every last detail is way worse than the worst place on Earth. Cold, dim, featureless, bone dry, dusty. The dust sticks to everything, seemingly leaping up to soil any clean surface. Enough is enough, but nobody can go home until the launch window opens, and the fuel is banked.
- ericd 4y agoSounds like you probably don't want to be a settler, which is fine, most people don't. Some people are into that kind of thing.
- labrador 4y agoElon Musk makes a lot more sense to me when I think of him as a very precocious 15 year old