5 ms·

I think you would need monarchy (or something more tyrannical) to get that. Democracies seem reliably short-sighted. The personal responsibility of taking on de

I think you would need monarchy (or something more tyrannical) to get that. Democracies seem reliably short-sighted. The personal responsibility of taking on debt is so thoroughly attenuated in a democracy that piling on ($90k per citizen and counting, in the US) debt is the expedient thing to do, and it's seemingly impossible to overcome the electoral price paid for trying to reject that expedient option.

cjbgkagh 4y ago
AFAIK it was how Keynesian economics was supposed to work. Also AFAIK the only country that did intentionally tighten at the top always Israel as they were worried that an economic crisis would leave them vulnerable to attack from their neighbors * * source is from a bar talk with an economist, I didn’t do my own research here…
- idlehand 4y ago
  Unlike socialism, capitalism actually seems to fare better when under a siege mentality. The 50s to 70s was a period of strong growth and right-wing support for worker-friendly policies which made the lives of the ordinary person better, not least because of fear that poor working class conditions would lead to communist uprisings in Western Europe.
  - otikik 4y ago
    It does sound like socialism helped then, albeit indirectly.
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
  Long-term prudence is how every system is supposed to work, but motive can't be considered in a system as diffuse as a government of 330million people. The US is Keynesian in bad times, and a giant tax cut celebration in the good times.
manfre 4y ago
The US effectively had that with the executive and legislative acting the way they did the years before COVID.
- Ticklee 4y ago
  I think you could argue the same took place during COVID, what with mask mandates, essentially forced vaccinations and businesses being forced closed.
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
  No monarch could ever have a sufficiently split personality to even mimic all the different ways things get pulled in a government where hundreds of people battle to make decisions. The US had (and has) no coherent vision but operates on a scale where that is not a viable option.
towaway15463 4y ago
You should pay more attention. They planned to start hiking rates in ‘21 when inflation broke 2% but in their infinite wisdom they deemed it “transitory” and kept rates low and now look where we are.
- FabHK 4y ago
  To be fair, there was no war in 2021 (involving huge oil/gas/wheat exporters).
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    Covid and the issues that caused should have been that long awaited wake up call to slowly ramp the money printer down. Instead, they ramped it up and now we're here. The war is not the main cause of this, but was the monkey wrench thrown in the money printer, bringing down this house of cards. This issue was years in the making, but they were just kicking the can down the road hoping the bubble wouldn't burst on their watch.
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
  I think you're assuming some backstory to my comment that's not there. But, for what it's worth, the rate hikes needed to start years before that, probably between 2013 and 2015. 2010-2020 was the window to make up for big spending.
pfisherman 4y ago
We had someone who was attempting something like tyrannical rule between 2016 - 2020 when the economy was going gangbusters. In his infinite wisdom he passed a ginormous tax cut, and then publicly lambasted the fed chair for modestly raising interest rates. Not that administration is solely to blame for our predicament. The failure goes back even before the previous administration who had a mandate to make radical changes after the 2008 election cycle, and instead continued business as usual.
- jaywalk 4y ago
  Wow, he passed a ginormous tax cut all on his own? Without the House and Senate both passing it first and sending it to him to sign?? That's extremely tyrannical! I can't believe I never heard about this, do you have any more info I can look at???
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/19/us/politics/tax-bill-senate-live-vote.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/19/us/politics/t...
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      Yeah, that was my point.

cjbgkagh 4y ago

AFAIK it was how Keynesian economics was supposed to work. Also AFAIK the only country that did intentionally tighten at the top always Israel as they were worried that an economic crisis would leave them vulnerable to attack from their neighbors * * source is from a bar talk with an economist, I didn’t do my own research here…

idlehand 4y ago
Unlike socialism, capitalism actually seems to fare better when under a siege mentality. The 50s to 70s was a period of strong growth and right-wing support for worker-friendly policies which made the lives of the ordinary person better, not least because of fear that poor working class conditions would lead to communist uprisings in Western Europe.
- otikik 4y ago
  It does sound like socialism helped then, albeit indirectly.
QuarterReptile 4y ago
Long-term prudence is how every system is supposed to work, but motive can't be considered in a system as diffuse as a government of 330million people. The US is Keynesian in bad times, and a giant tax cut celebration in the good times.

manfre 4y ago

The US effectively had that with the executive and legislative acting the way they did the years before COVID.

Ticklee 4y ago
I think you could argue the same took place during COVID, what with mask mandates, essentially forced vaccinations and businesses being forced closed.
QuarterReptile 4y ago
No monarch could ever have a sufficiently split personality to even mimic all the different ways things get pulled in a government where hundreds of people battle to make decisions. The US had (and has) no coherent vision but operates on a scale where that is not a viable option.

towaway15463 4y ago

You should pay more attention. They planned to start hiking rates in ‘21 when inflation broke 2% but in their infinite wisdom they deemed it “transitory” and kept rates low and now look where we are.

FabHK 4y ago
To be fair, there was no war in 2021 (involving huge oil/gas/wheat exporters).
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Covid and the issues that caused should have been that long awaited wake up call to slowly ramp the money printer down. Instead, they ramped it up and now we're here. The war is not the main cause of this, but was the monkey wrench thrown in the money printer, bringing down this house of cards. This issue was years in the making, but they were just kicking the can down the road hoping the bubble wouldn't burst on their watch.
QuarterReptile 4y ago
I think you're assuming some backstory to my comment that's not there. But, for what it's worth, the rate hikes needed to start years before that, probably between 2013 and 2015. 2010-2020 was the window to make up for big spending.

pfisherman 4y ago

We had someone who was attempting something like tyrannical rule between 2016 - 2020 when the economy was going gangbusters. In his infinite wisdom he passed a ginormous tax cut, and then publicly lambasted the fed chair for modestly raising interest rates. Not that administration is solely to blame for our predicament. The failure goes back even before the previous administration who had a mandate to make radical changes after the 2008 election cycle, and instead continued business as usual.

jaywalk 4y ago
Wow, he passed a ginormous tax cut all on his own? Without the House and Senate both passing it first and sending it to him to sign?? That's extremely tyrannical! I can't believe I never heard about this, do you have any more info I can look at???
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/19/us/politics/tax-bill-senate-live-vote.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/19/us/politics/t...
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    Yeah, that was my point.