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Much of Russia is essentially pro-global warming. They see the northern ice cap melting and their climate becoming more mild as a way to tap the potential of th

Much of Russia is essentially pro-global warming. They see the northern ice cap melting and their climate becoming more mild as a way to tap the potential of their land and northern coast.

echelon 4y ago
I had never considered this. Are there other countries with this stance? Do you have any sources?
- catchclose8919 4y ago
  US, Canada, and some parts of Europe could also have a similar "silent" perspective... things will get worse, buy they'll be able to maintain a competitive advantage (so relatively speaking it could get better for them) at feeding people and keeping them healthy (and helping them live longer - don't undermine future monopolies on real anti-aging and medical techs... if you're a 140+ IQ individual and have a change of living 20+ yrs in another country, you will emigrate there), so all the world's best brains will "drain" towards them, giving them even more advantages. China should invest seriously into making itself more a more livable / enjoyable country and into securing its agriculture instead of their grand space, AI and social engineering projects, if they want the slightest chance of competing in the new game...
  - titzer 4y ago
    The US isn't that devious. It's more akin to a dog eating a trail of kibbles made of fossil fuels. Won't look up, can't stop, keeps tasting good.
    - jvanderbot 4y ago
      Ah, yes and no. There's probably a very serious assessment of risks at a national level, and the result: Heartland productivity, more droughts in SW, more floods in SE, better mobility in bearing strait, yadda yadda ... just kind of seemed OK and not worth fretting over vs the then-perceived economic cost of pivoting away from fossil fuels.
    - catchclose8919 4y ago
      well, when the most devious thing ou can do is less/nothing... this is the big nasty ethical dilema with climate change and access to medicine... maybe evils vs stupid is just two sides of the same coin...
- wiredearp 4y ago
  How climate change might benefit Russia, two articles over on https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/16/magazine/russia-climate-migration-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/16/magazine/russ... and https://medium.com/predict/how-climate-change-is-transforming-russia-into-the-biggest-superpower-25572d1524f4 https://medium.com/predict/how-climate-change-is-transformin...
- bequanna 4y ago
  The upsides are seldom discussed but there seem to be many regions that would net benefit. For example, if average temps do indeed warm as some predict much of the Midwestern US and Canada would enjoy longer growing seasons which would result in more tillable farmland and larger yields.
  - prometheus76 4y ago
    Increased CO2 in the atmosphere also leads to larger agricultural yields. Commercial greenhouses pump CO2 into their greenhouses to raise the CO2 to 1200 ppm or so. This can double or even triple yield.
  - trilbyglens 4y ago
    You are fully ignoring the fact that it's not just warming, but also an increase in climate chaos. They are just as likely to get mega freezes randomly, along with regular tornadoes or droughts as they are to get longer growing seasons. Calling it "warming" is a misnomer.
    - bequanna 4y ago
      Not quite. Calling it "warming" was found to be inconvenient once the observations failed to confirm the models. "Climate chaos" is the new sexy, focus-group tested term. Not based on science, but a solid foundation of confirmation bias.
      - jamal-kumar 4y ago
        You put things in scare-quotes until your house is blown down
        bequanna 4y ago
        The area I live in has experienced floods, tornados, blizzards, thunderstorms since time immemorial. The frequency and intensity of these events hasn't changed, but our ability to measure, capture and share the effects with a large audience sure has. Something to think about.
- spurgu 4y ago
  Just common sense. Russia has vast resource-rich areas in Siberia that with global warming would become habitable. They have relatively few large coastal cities (compared to the US and Europe). And the Arctic sea being clear of ice year round would open up a shorter/faster shipping route for China-Europe than the current one through the Suez canal. Edit: Also to address your question about whether there are others, I'm Finnish and have strongly considered buying land in Lapland as a long-term investment (thinking grandchildren+ here).
mistrial9 4y ago
my retirement age neighbor from Pennsylvania is also "pro global warming" by this definition.
Workaccount2 4y ago
Russia is a petro state too. Without oil and gas they are nothing.
- throwaway71271 4y ago
  what is america without gas and oil?
  - Workaccount2 4y ago
    A tech and finance powerhouse.
    - throwaway71271 4y ago
      neither of those exist without gas and oil :)
      - silverspoonin 4y ago
        Neither of those exist without energy, which is a fine distinction from "gas and oil".
    - spurgu 4y ago
      Tech at the moment sure, but there's nothing that stops the geographical location from shifting. There are skilled IT people around the world, there just aren't that many tech hubs like Silicon Valley. Finance? Remind me again how much debt the US has and how close it was to defaulting last year (saved by being forced to raise the debt ceiling yet again)? Things aren't looking much better right now.
      - bogomipz 4y ago
        >"Tech at the moment sure, but there's nothing that stops the geographical location from shifting. There are skilled IT people around the world, there just aren't that many tech hubs like Silicon Valley." Except that tech in the US is also NYC, Seattle, Austin and Boston too. It outgrew the SV hub years ago now. Those locations are the results of location shifting. >"Finance? Remind me again how much debt the US has and how close it was to defaulting last year (saved by being forced to raise the debt ceiling yet again)? Things aren't looking much better right now." "Finance" is used to describe the industry of and around investment banking. It is very different and distinct from the context of the US Treasury which you seem to be conflating. Further the US was never even close to actually defaulting on its debt last year. What happened in October was a bit of political theater around something known as the "debt ceiling." This is simply the agreed upon amount that congress says the US can have outstanding. This is very different from sovereign defaults that result from not having the means to pay. There is a primer here [1]. It's also unclear what you mean by "Things aren't looking much better right now." Despite experiencing the same stubborn inflation as the rest of the globe, the US has had something of a miracle recovery since the beginning of the pandemic. The unemployment rate as of May was 3.6% which is about what it was before the pandemic. There's been many other bright spots as well [2]. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp [2] https://www.thebalance.com/how-is-the-economy-doing-3306046 https://www.thebalance.com/how-is-the-economy-doing-3306046
gdy 4y ago
Oh, please. 67% of Russians reported that they are worried or a little bit worried about global warming [0]. [0] https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-04/ipsos-earth-day-2022-global-advisor-survey-report-great-britain.pdf https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/...
- upsidesinclude 4y ago
  Oh please yourself. Those people live in Moscow and St Petersburg. The Russian government does not act on an opinion poll of Russian people
  - gdy 4y ago
    I think Ipsos[0] knows how to conduct its polls. Meanwhile an informal poll among 10000 users of a pizza delivery app gave 88% concerned about global warming[1]. That's your people living in Moscow and St. Petersburg. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipsos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipsos [1] https://www.asi.org.ru/news/2022/05/27/glavnymi-ekologicheskimi-problemami-rossiyane-schitayut-zagryaznenie-vozduha-vody-i-musor/ https://www.asi.org.ru/news/2022/05/27/glavnymi-ekologichesk...
marcosdumay 4y ago
Most of the Russian population concentrates on places with very intense heatwaves that make the international news often due to the amount of deaths. So, maybe there is some government propaganda that way, but I doubt most Russians would want hotter summers.

Much of Russia is essentially pro-global warming. They see the northern ice cap melting and their climate becoming more mild as a way to tap the potential of their land and northern coast.

echelon 4y ago

I had never considered this. Are there other countries with this stance? Do you have any sources?

catchclose8919 4y ago
US, Canada, and some parts of Europe could also have a similar "silent" perspective... things will get worse, buy they'll be able to maintain a competitive advantage (so relatively speaking it could get better for them) at feeding people and keeping them healthy (and helping them live longer - don't undermine future monopolies on real anti-aging and medical techs... if you're a 140+ IQ individual and have a change of living 20+ yrs in another country, you will emigrate there), so all the world's best brains will "drain" towards them, giving them even more advantages. China should invest seriously into making itself more a more livable / enjoyable country and into securing its agriculture instead of their grand space, AI and social engineering projects, if they want the slightest chance of competing in the new game...
- titzer 4y ago
  The US isn't that devious. It's more akin to a dog eating a trail of kibbles made of fossil fuels. Won't look up, can't stop, keeps tasting good.
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    Ah, yes and no. There's probably a very serious assessment of risks at a national level, and the result: Heartland productivity, more droughts in SW, more floods in SE, better mobility in bearing strait, yadda yadda ... just kind of seemed OK and not worth fretting over vs the then-perceived economic cost of pivoting away from fossil fuels.
  - catchclose8919 4y ago
    well, when the most devious thing ou can do is less/nothing... this is the big nasty ethical dilema with climate change and access to medicine... maybe evils vs stupid is just two sides of the same coin...
wiredearp 4y ago
How climate change might benefit Russia, two articles over on https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/16/magazine/russia-climate-migration-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/16/magazine/russ... and https://medium.com/predict/how-climate-change-is-transforming-russia-into-the-biggest-superpower-25572d1524f4 https://medium.com/predict/how-climate-change-is-transformin...
bequanna 4y ago
The upsides are seldom discussed but there seem to be many regions that would net benefit. For example, if average temps do indeed warm as some predict much of the Midwestern US and Canada would enjoy longer growing seasons which would result in more tillable farmland and larger yields.
- prometheus76 4y ago
  Increased CO2 in the atmosphere also leads to larger agricultural yields. Commercial greenhouses pump CO2 into their greenhouses to raise the CO2 to 1200 ppm or so. This can double or even triple yield.
- trilbyglens 4y ago
  You are fully ignoring the fact that it's not just warming, but also an increase in climate chaos. They are just as likely to get mega freezes randomly, along with regular tornadoes or droughts as they are to get longer growing seasons. Calling it "warming" is a misnomer.
  - bequanna 4y ago
    Not quite. Calling it "warming" was found to be inconvenient once the observations failed to confirm the models. "Climate chaos" is the new sexy, focus-group tested term. Not based on science, but a solid foundation of confirmation bias.
    - jamal-kumar 4y ago
      You put things in scare-quotes until your house is blown down
      - bequanna 4y ago
        The area I live in has experienced floods, tornados, blizzards, thunderstorms since time immemorial. The frequency and intensity of these events hasn't changed, but our ability to measure, capture and share the effects with a large audience sure has. Something to think about.
spurgu 4y ago
Just common sense. Russia has vast resource-rich areas in Siberia that with global warming would become habitable. They have relatively few large coastal cities (compared to the US and Europe). And the Arctic sea being clear of ice year round would open up a shorter/faster shipping route for China-Europe than the current one through the Suez canal. Edit: Also to address your question about whether there are others, I'm Finnish and have strongly considered buying land in Lapland as a long-term investment (thinking grandchildren+ here).

mistrial9 4y ago

my retirement age neighbor from Pennsylvania is also "pro global warming" by this definition.

Workaccount2 4y ago

Russia is a petro state too. Without oil and gas they are nothing.

throwaway71271 4y ago
what is america without gas and oil?
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  A tech and finance powerhouse.
  - throwaway71271 4y ago
    neither of those exist without gas and oil :)
    - silverspoonin 4y ago
      Neither of those exist without energy, which is a fine distinction from "gas and oil".
  - spurgu 4y ago
    Tech at the moment sure, but there's nothing that stops the geographical location from shifting. There are skilled IT people around the world, there just aren't that many tech hubs like Silicon Valley. Finance? Remind me again how much debt the US has and how close it was to defaulting last year (saved by being forced to raise the debt ceiling yet again)? Things aren't looking much better right now.
    - bogomipz 4y ago
      >"Tech at the moment sure, but there's nothing that stops the geographical location from shifting. There are skilled IT people around the world, there just aren't that many tech hubs like Silicon Valley." Except that tech in the US is also NYC, Seattle, Austin and Boston too. It outgrew the SV hub years ago now. Those locations are the results of location shifting. >"Finance? Remind me again how much debt the US has and how close it was to defaulting last year (saved by being forced to raise the debt ceiling yet again)? Things aren't looking much better right now." "Finance" is used to describe the industry of and around investment banking. It is very different and distinct from the context of the US Treasury which you seem to be conflating. Further the US was never even close to actually defaulting on its debt last year. What happened in October was a bit of political theater around something known as the "debt ceiling." This is simply the agreed upon amount that congress says the US can have outstanding. This is very different from sovereign defaults that result from not having the means to pay. There is a primer here [1]. It's also unclear what you mean by "Things aren't looking much better right now." Despite experiencing the same stubborn inflation as the rest of the globe, the US has had something of a miracle recovery since the beginning of the pandemic. The unemployment rate as of May was 3.6% which is about what it was before the pandemic. There's been many other bright spots as well [2]. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debt-ceiling.asp [2] https://www.thebalance.com/how-is-the-economy-doing-3306046 https://www.thebalance.com/how-is-the-economy-doing-3306046

gdy 4y ago

Oh, please. 67% of Russians reported that they are worried or a little bit worried about global warming [0]. [0] https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-04/ipsos-earth-day-2022-global-advisor-survey-report-great-britain.pdf https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/...

upsidesinclude 4y ago
Oh please yourself. Those people live in Moscow and St Petersburg. The Russian government does not act on an opinion poll of Russian people
- gdy 4y ago
  I think Ipsos[0] knows how to conduct its polls. Meanwhile an informal poll among 10000 users of a pizza delivery app gave 88% concerned about global warming[1]. That's your people living in Moscow and St. Petersburg. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipsos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipsos [1] https://www.asi.org.ru/news/2022/05/27/glavnymi-ekologicheskimi-problemami-rossiyane-schitayut-zagryaznenie-vozduha-vody-i-musor/ https://www.asi.org.ru/news/2022/05/27/glavnymi-ekologichesk...

marcosdumay 4y ago

Most of the Russian population concentrates on places with very intense heatwaves that make the international news often due to the amount of deaths. So, maybe there is some government propaganda that way, but I doubt most Russians would want hotter summers.