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The question is: What is a sane price for bitcoin? I would say $0.00.

by legulere 4y ago

Grimburger 4y ago
You can bet on that happening over long periods. Shorting the 2024 bitcoin price isn't hard at all for a consumer.
- ABeeSea 4y ago
  You can only short bitcoin on exchanges that are internally betting on increasing crypto prices. Not exactly a fair market maker.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    Also an unlikely party to pay out should you win.
  - Grimburger 4y ago
    https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/cryptocurrencies/bitcoin/bitcoin.html https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/cryptocurrencies/bitcoin/bi... CME? The same place I can bet up or down on soybeans next year?
pmyteh 4y ago
Clearly greater than zero, if only for the novelty value. What are Zimbabwean $100trn bills going for on eBay these days?
epolanski 4y ago
The fair price is where the curves of supply and demand meet. That's what is "fair". Otherwise we need to speak about "intrinsic value". And there's really no intrinsic value in Bitcoin, money doesn't have an "intrinsic value" against something else. And if you want to argue that "but the technology!", then what can we talk about? Bitcoin's code is open source, if we launch our own coin does it have intrinsic value as well? Can we create endless new blockchains and create value out of thin air? This is why I don't believe Bitcoin has a "fair" price, to have it, it would need to have a value and then the loop begins again.
- olalonde 4y ago
  Bingo. A lot of people mistakenly conclude that Bitcoin's "fair value" must be 0 because it lacks an intrinsic value. But they fail to realize that fiat money also lacks an intrinsic value. Even gold to a large extent lacks an intrinsic value in the sense that its intrinsic value is a negligible fraction of its actual market value.
  - arbitrage 4y ago
    You're close. Fiat money has value when it's backed by something. The US$ is backed by the US government. It's still fiat money.
    - olalonde 4y ago
      It is "backed" as in endorsed, or supported, by the US government. In the same sense that Bitcoin is "backed" by its many worldwide supporters and miners. It is not "backed" in the traditional meaning of being redeemable for something else at a fixed rate ("backed by gold", "backed by silver", etc.).
  - nradov 4y ago
    Intrinsic value (or fair value) is a meaningless concept when applied to currencies. The US dollar has value because the US government maintains a fairly effective monopoly on violence over a large chunk of real estate. They require residents to pay taxes in that currency, and if you don't pay then the government will seize your assets by force. Overall this system works pretty well.
  - legulere 4y ago
    The intrinsic value of fiat money is that I can pay my taxes with it and avoid persecution by the state.
ipaddr 4y ago
I would take all bitcoin available at that price and so would others.. not really a sane price
evdubs 4y ago
A fair value for Bitcoin at the moment is ~$42,000. https://www.coinfairvalue.com/coins/bitcoin/ https://www.coinfairvalue.com/coins/bitcoin/ > What do you mean by "fair value"? https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@pablomp/cryptocurrencies-what-is-the-fair-value-of-a-currency https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@pablomp/cryptocurrencies-what-i...

The question is: What is a sane price for bitcoin? I would say $0.00.

Grimburger 4y ago

You can bet on that happening over long periods. Shorting the 2024 bitcoin price isn't hard at all for a consumer.

ABeeSea 4y ago
You can only short bitcoin on exchanges that are internally betting on increasing crypto prices. Not exactly a fair market maker.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  Also an unlikely party to pay out should you win.
- Grimburger 4y ago
  https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/cryptocurrencies/bitcoin/bitcoin.html https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/cryptocurrencies/bitcoin/bi... CME? The same place I can bet up or down on soybeans next year?

pmyteh 4y ago

Clearly greater than zero, if only for the novelty value. What are Zimbabwean $100trn bills going for on eBay these days?

epolanski 4y ago

The fair price is where the curves of supply and demand meet. That's what is "fair". Otherwise we need to speak about "intrinsic value". And there's really no intrinsic value in Bitcoin, money doesn't have an "intrinsic value" against something else. And if you want to argue that "but the technology!", then what can we talk about? Bitcoin's code is open source, if we launch our own coin does it have intrinsic value as well? Can we create endless new blockchains and create value out of thin air? This is why I don't believe Bitcoin has a "fair" price, to have it, it would need to have a value and then the loop begins again.

olalonde 4y ago
Bingo. A lot of people mistakenly conclude that Bitcoin's "fair value" must be 0 because it lacks an intrinsic value. But they fail to realize that fiat money also lacks an intrinsic value. Even gold to a large extent lacks an intrinsic value in the sense that its intrinsic value is a negligible fraction of its actual market value.
- arbitrage 4y ago
  You're close. Fiat money has value when it's backed by something. The US$ is backed by the US government. It's still fiat money.
  - olalonde 4y ago
    It is "backed" as in endorsed, or supported, by the US government. In the same sense that Bitcoin is "backed" by its many worldwide supporters and miners. It is not "backed" in the traditional meaning of being redeemable for something else at a fixed rate ("backed by gold", "backed by silver", etc.).
- nradov 4y ago
  Intrinsic value (or fair value) is a meaningless concept when applied to currencies. The US dollar has value because the US government maintains a fairly effective monopoly on violence over a large chunk of real estate. They require residents to pay taxes in that currency, and if you don't pay then the government will seize your assets by force. Overall this system works pretty well.
- legulere 4y ago
  The intrinsic value of fiat money is that I can pay my taxes with it and avoid persecution by the state.

ipaddr 4y ago

I would take all bitcoin available at that price and so would others.. not really a sane price

evdubs 4y ago

A fair value for Bitcoin at the moment is ~$42,000. https://www.coinfairvalue.com/coins/bitcoin/ https://www.coinfairvalue.com/coins/bitcoin/ > What do you mean by "fair value"? https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@pablomp/cryptocurrencies-what-is-the-fair-value-of-a-currency https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@pablomp/cryptocurrencies-what-i...