10 ms·

The study also does not claim to show a causal relationship.

by pflats 4y ago

citilife 4y ago
I was actually going to point that out. IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. Especially "being to hyper" or "being unable to focus" have a different issue. Children are supposed to be outside moving 8-12 hours a day, have you seen puppies? They need something similar. Instead many parents give their children tablets, plop them in front of the TV and do something else. Kick them into the back yard or go throw a ball with them. Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them. Bringing them to the gym, to the park, playing in the backyard; it's a lot of work. Kids who have trouble focusing are likely tired and overstimulated. Reduce the number of toys, remove TV / tablets, and send them outside. It'll probably solve itself. As an experiment, look at the people you know on medication (or ask), look at the troubled children, etc. I guarantee you'll see the same trend: single parent home, started medication at an early age, regular therapist appointments, etc. They're unhappy and need depressants, ADHD medication, etc. It's not always the case, but it's a trend. People who are diagnosed with ADHD at a younger age likely have parents who just don't want / know how to deal with issues. Mental health "experts" treat the symptoms via medication, but the underlying issue(s) just continue to fester. What we really need is a strong emphasis on family development, courses built around it and support groups. Parents naturally do this, but I think it's been severely broken down the past 50-60 years and is getting exponentially worse. As such we see more: single parent homes, abundance of medication, reduction in religion and adult social clubs, etc.
- zrail 4y ago
  So it feels to me that you're saying ADHD doesn't exist and it's a matter of parental failure or indifference. Do I have that right?
  - nominusllc 4y ago
    I have ADHD, and increasing eustress by working out or doing fun physical things like sports to the point of being tired is one thing that is better than anything I've been prescribed. It's not fall asleep tired, it's more akin to being physically spent. When there is no more need to fidget and do things, I focus like a laser and am less prone to impulse.
    - adastra22 4y ago
      Great it works for you. You probably have the hyperactive type of ADHD. For me and my daughter with inattentive/non-hyperactive ADD, doing physical things, while fun, just make us tired and want to sleep. Not a good idea if you need to focus and get work done. I take daily medication and it has been literally life saving as I was able to turn things around and keep my marriage from falling apart, not to mention my happiness from being able to accomplish much, much more. I'm holding off medication for my daughter only because it lessens appetite and she is very skinny already. Once she's grown to her full height we'll get her meds she can use too.
      - nominusllc 4y ago
        I feel for you, I hope you guys settle on something that works with as little sides as possible. It's a spectrum with a lot of means to address a moving target, so some trial and error unfortunately comes with it. Luckily I was able to work with my doc to find things that work for the things that eustress cannot solve. Just curious, what do you take?
  - davemp 4y ago
    I don’t see how you are getting that from OP’s comment. OP seems to be claiming that ADHD is often over diagnosed and/or treated improperly. A viewpoint shared by people I know in the field.
- 300bps 4y ago
  Bringing them to the gym, to the park, playing in the backyard; it's a lot of work. I agree with your point but as I’m wrapping up raising my own children I’m coming to the conclusion that I made it a lot harder in myself. Driving them to a million activities, even driving them to playgrounds several times per week, Home Depot kids workshops and so much more. Sometimes I think a better thing would’ve been to simply say, “Go play outside.”
  - robonerd 4y ago
    Whenever I was moping around inside, my mother always told me "Go be bored OUTSIDE"
- greesil 4y ago
  "People who are diagnosed with ADHD at a younger age likely have parents who just don't want / know how to deal with issues." Once you have a child with ADHD, or if you are someone with ADHD, you will understand just how wrong you are. Until then, enjoy your bliss.
  - citilife 4y ago
    I formed this opinion from knowing many and seeing the way they are being / were raised. There's quite a bit of evidence to support this btw (outside of my observations). https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1471-2431-12-50 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1471-2431-12-50 > Approximately 10% of the sample was classified as having ADHD. We found depression, anxiety, healthcare coverage, and male sex of child to have increased odds of being diagnosed with ADHD. One of the salient features of this study was observing a significant association between ADHD and variables such as TV usage, participation in sports, two-parent family structure, and family members’ smoking status. Obesity was not found to be significantly associated with ADHD, contrary to some previous studies. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221133551400014X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221133551... > Youth with ADD/ADHD engaged in screen time with an average of 149.1 min/weekday and 59% had a TV in their bedroom. Adjusting for child and family characteristics, having a TV in the bedroom was associated with 25 minute higher daily screen time (95% CI: 12.8–37.4 min/day). A bedroom TV was associated with 32% higher odds of engaging in screen time for over 2 h/day (OR = 1.3; 95% CI: 1.0–1.7). https://journals.lww.com/jrnldbp/Abstract/2018/04000/Sleeping,_TV,_Cognitively_Stimulating_Activities,.2.aspx https://journals.lww.com/jrnldbp/Abstract/2018/04000/Sleepin... > A shorter sleep duration and less time spent in cognitively stimulating activities were associated with an increased risk of developing ADHD symptoms and behavior problems. There's plenty more, but the gist is pretty clear. Get your kids outside, give them a supportive and safe environment, teach them how to behave like adults, give them plenty of sleep, and provide them plenty of opportunities to learn. All those reduce risk of depression and ADHD (hence the correlation above).
    - Djvacto 4y ago
      > Youth with ADD/ADHD engaged in screen time with an average of 149.1 min/weekday and 59% had a TV in their bedroom. Adjusting for child and family characteristics, having a TV in the bedroom was associated with 25 minute higher daily screen time (95% CI: 12.8–37.4 min/day). A bedroom TV was associated with 32% higher odds of engaging in screen time for over 2 h/day (OR = 1.3; 95% CI: 1.0–1.7). This does not imply causation. Someone with ADHD is more likely to give in to distraction and dopamine. This study was done with a sample of people who already have ADHD. Nothing in it indicates that television time is going to cause ADHD. Someone who has a better relationship with exercise, screens, or whatever, doesn't mean they don't have ADHD anymore. Medicated or not. They just have better support and lifestyle habits that minimize how much it might impact them.
- kevinpet 4y ago
  Thanks, professor. Now how about you tell us your solution to peace in the middle east and renewable power.
- adastra22 4y ago
  As someone with ADHD, who has a kid with ADHD, this dismissive attitude is really unwelcome. Inattentiveness is a real symptom with drastic life-altering effects for which medication is a godsend. Studies have shown that exposure to screen time does not result in ADHD. To be told "you're just a bad parent who lets their kid watch an iPad too much" is infuriating. (I'm trying to keep things civil per the site rules, but my honest reaction begins with 'F' and ends with 'U', guy.)
  - ericd 4y ago
    Maybe don't take it personally, I think they're saying that much of society is doing it wrong. EDIT: But yes, they’re also saying that many parents are doing it wrong, and they’re assigning much of the blame to parenting. My point was that when a huge percentage of parents are “doing it wrong”, maybe there’s some wider systemic thing at play. Like economic forces that make people work harder than they should if they have kids, dissolution of support networks that would’ve normally cared for the kids in addition to the parents, etc. I’m not saying that this is a cause of ADHD, because I know little about it, but if you take their opinion as correct, then much of the blame could be laid at the societal structures we’ve created rather than the individual.
    - MereInterest 4y ago
      No, there's some incredibly broad brush strokes in the parent comment. * "Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them." * "look at the people you know on medication (or ask), look at the troubled children, etc. I guarantee you'll see the same trend" * "likely have parents who just don't want / know how to deal with issues" There's only a single phrase "not always the case, but it's a trend" that frames it as a societal issue on average, but that doesn't counter the incredibly general conclusions made by the poster.
      - lghh 4y ago
        I can't believe the responder had the gall to take personal attacks personally. Have they tried going outside more? If they didn't sit on their butt all day they might not be inclined to take my directed insults personally.
- zzen 4y ago
  > “ People who are diagnosed with ADHD at a younger age likely have parents who just don't want / know how to deal with issues.” I have no idea where you take this opinion from or if you can back it up. From my anecdotal evidence exactly the opposite is true: kids from families who do realize there is such a thing as mental health and who care deeply about their kids - those get diagnosed. Kids from other families just get mostly slapped around and screamed at to get their shit together.
- mchanson 4y ago
  This comment is BS and showing ugly judgement of others. Really old school thinking like how they used to blame mothers for autism.
- luckydata 4y ago
  This is a very, very, very uninformed take. Please inform yourself. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976342100049X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976342...
- benfrain 4y ago
  You clearly don’t have a clue what you are talking about. I have a child clinically diagnosed with ADHD. It’s absolutely nothing to do with time spent with him. We have stable family home, active life style. etc He just has a brain that works differently. Not worse. Different. He might struggle to pay attention at school but he’s written two novels! PS. Religion is horse shit so if that’s the only other thing you have left for me to help him, I’ll take my chances, thanks
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    If you feel his brain is "just different", I have a question; Are you medicating them?
- Djvacto 4y ago
  I started medication as an adult, lived in a home with two involved & present parents, never saw any doctor about ADHD until I was an adult, and was never an unhappy child. Looking back, I clearly had ADHD, but since it's a condition that's unique and specific symptoms vary per person, I just happened to have mechanisms that worked and got lucky with how my brain patterns fit into school from Elementary - High School. I had plenty of outdoor activity, and plenty of video games / computer use. Not that you mentioned it, but I also read fantasy/sci-fi books like they were daily papers, finished all of my incomplete homework in the morning while waiting for class to start, and was constantly multi-tasking in class (reading, doing homework for an upcoming class, or occasionally fidgeting). My sample size is 1, but I have 4-5 diagnosed (either as kids or adults) close friends with similar stories. Your comment takes some generally-well-known positive advice (exercise more, social interaction & supportive relationships are good, parenting kids is a big task that takes time & effort), and identifies some real problems we face today (social isolation, a lack of non-religious adult organizations, sedentary lifestyles) and uses it to disparage people with real, diagnosable conditions, and vilifying those who turn to medication for it. I'm fine with how my life worked out, but I can't imagine being the kind of kid whose ADHD manifested in a different way that made school exponentially harder than it was for me, and being told that life-changing medicine, that let me participate in school or work just like everyone else does, is something I was given by mistake, or that I just had shit parents or should have played outside more.
  - lettergram 4y ago
    As you pointed out ADHD is a disease, what’s the cause? Do you have adhd, or do the drugs help you focus and you want that? Calling it a disease implies something is wrong, but having trouble focusing isn’t “wrong”. It’s a skill one can acquire and may have a variety of factors impacting it (from genetics to environment to mental management). That’s the issue I personally take with these kind of discussions. Medication may help you focus (coffee does that), but do people who need coffee in the morning to focus well have a disease? Hardly.
    - Taywee 4y ago
      Not them, and I don't have ADHD, but I am the parent of a child with ADHD and I know plenty of people with ADHD, and it's not just "having trouble focusing". For a lot of people, it's a complete inability to focus on any one thing for any real amount of time. They can try as hard as they can to force themselves, but become disfocused and distracted despite any effort. It also often involves impulsiveness that is incredibly difficult to control, to the point that often it feels like it wasn't even their own choice. A common description I've heard is that it feels like somebody else was controlling them. My son would say when he was younger "My brain made me do it" or "my hands just did it on their own", and at first I thought it was an excuse, but after one destructive incident, he broke down crying at the age of 7 saying that he doesn't know why he does the things he does, and he can't stop or control himself, and he wishes he could stop himself from doing it. He tries to be good but then something takes control and makes him do destructive things or blurt out things he knows are wrong to say. On medication now, he still has a hard time, but he is actually capable of controlling himself, he is capable of forcing himself to focus, and he's much happier. Now it is just a skill for him to work on, but in the past, it was an actual impossibility. It is a true disorder, not just "trouble focusing", and ADHD medication is a fundamental need for some people to function at all, and not comparable to a morning coffee. In the past, these people were often assumed to be possessed, or insane, and were institutionalized, killed, or imprisoned. It's not like ADHD is a new epidemic or something.
- ihsw 4y ago
  This echos my experience to a T. I struggled as a single parent of a child and I hold myself responsible for them developing ADHD. I did my best and most days I was too tired to give my child the attention and guidance they needed and he suffered needlessly. I resisted prescription medication for as long as possible until it became absolutely necessary. It works and there are side-effects, including symptoms that overlap with depression. I am spending more time with my son (especially physical activities) and I hope someday he doesn't need methylphenidate. I am likely still shadow-banned and nobody will see this message. I hope this message gets out and more single parents get the help they need.
- terracatta 4y ago
  > Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them You must not know many parents then. Parents I know that have children with ADHD recognize their children are struggling beyond simple hyperactivity. These are children that are markedly behind their peers in childhood milestones regardless of their family upbringing, education, and socio-economic status. These are children that have a deficiency in the executive function of their brains where hyperactivity is one of many symptoms, and is not even necessarily the most worrying. These are children that struggle with simple tasks that other children do not. Parents of these children are no less loving, caring, or capable than parents without ADHD children. Parents should not be shamed for using effective medications (like MDH) so their children can have positive outcomes in their development and adult-life. > What we really need is a strong emphasis on family development, courses built around it and support groups ADHD is generally a disorder that you are born with. No amount of family development can prevent the disease. Educate yourself by watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQu-OPrzUc&t=137s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQu-OPrzUc&t=137s
  - lettergram 4y ago
    Couldn’t the posters point about lack of parental engagement be the root cause for being behind their peers? I’m sorry, it doesn’t seem like you’re really challenging the argument.
    - zrail 4y ago
      > it doesn’t seem like you’re really challenging the argument. That's probably because it's an argument uninformed by even the slightest bit of research into how a brain with ADHD works. Also you're sealioning, so :reported:
      - lettergram 4y ago
        > sealioning huh hadn't heard that before -- good to know
- sha256sum 4y ago
  > IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. I see this with someone close to me. Diagnosed with ADHD as a child, medicated, later diagnosed with depression. The real issue, however, was probably more related to brain development/executive function because their mother smoked a pack of cigarettes a day through pregnancy. You've struck a nerve with some commenters, but personally I think you're on to something.
  - citilife 4y ago
    It's hard for people to reason when they are fearful they are doing the wrong thing. I question the same thing everyday for my family. One way I try to explain it to people: "We give people insulin because they have diabetes. Diabetes is the disease, but you can cure it through diet and exercise for Type 2 (it's environmental), Type 1 you cannot (it's genetic). Giving insulin treats the disease, but doesnt' sure it" This is the same thing for ADHD or depression. Some people probably have Type 1, others (I think the vast majority) have Type 2. Sure you can mask the issue, somewhat. But you can't cure it through the medications today.
  - lukas099 4y ago
    To counter your anecdote with my own: I grew up in a two-parent household. I had a doting, stay-home mom who spent lots of time with us. I lived in a safe neighborhood where I rode bikes with other kids for miles around during the summer. My family took long road trips to places like Yellowstone National Park for weeks and day trips to the zoo, the botanical gardens, the science museum, etc. I did not have a TV in my room and screen time was limited. I was involved in sports at school, summer swim team, and karate which my dad did with us. I have ADHD which resulted in crippling depression when I was in college. As soon as I got diagnosed and medicated, I was able to be like the normal people that I always wanted to be, and align my actions with my goals.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  > Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them. I was diagnosed as an adult. My parents kept me consistently active and engaged. Plenty of play outdoors, fishing, camping, riding bikes. They were involved in my education until, as a teen, I wanted more independence. I’m not saying I had an ideal upbringing, but I have very loving involved parents (dad and stepmom; relevant below). I don’t know if that’s why my diagnosis came later, but I seriously doubt it. My mom, unlike my dad and stepmom, was deeply skeptical (a) that ADHD even exists and (b) that ADHD medication is safe, effective, or necessary. That kind of bias is powerful, and easy for kids to pick up on. I was mortified of these meds before my diagnosis. Now I can’t imagine how I lived without them (and I very well may not be alive today had I not sought treatment). I’m sure there’s often some truth to some of what you’re saying, to be clear. One of the most difficult parts of getting my diagnosis was that the diagnostic criteria are entirely external to the patient being diagnosed: they’re framed around how parents and other adults perceive a child’s behavior. It took a patient and understanding doctor to help me map those criteria to my internal experiences and my adult life. But I don’t think I benefitted at all from waiting decades for a diagnosis.
- random-human 4y ago
  >> As an experiment, look at the people you know on medication (or ask), look at the troubled children, etc. I guarantee you'll see the same trend: single parent home, started medication at an early age, regular therapist appointments, etc. They're unhappy and need depressants, ADHD medication, etc. That sounds like me. My parents are stilled married and about to have their 45th anniversary. The extended family are all on their first marriage and in retirement age or raising families. I started medication after 30, mental health is not a valid thing in my traditional family. According to them, my struggles were because I hadn't learned my proper place yet. Shame and ridicule from adults, and allowing others in the family to participate, was their idea of proper treatment that would 'fix' me into being a proper young lady. This after their first attempts to keep me in line failed. After that, exclusion within family events, that I was forced to attend, was the treatment of choice. At least less parental attention meant they couldn't keep reminding me how defective I was. Unsurprisingly, I was very unhappy and depressed. Then I decided to love myself and see the absolute dysfunction this nuclear religious anti-mental health family idea is. Now, I am the most well-traveled, curious, adventurous and financially successful person in the family. That didn't happen until I was able to get the help I needed. By help, I mean medication to do the core things only I'm responsible for in a world that doesn't fit into the way I function. Provide myself with food and shelter as an adult. I am on the higher end of hyperactive ADHD, also dyslexic - which I learned after getting medication for ADHD. I noticed similarities in my niece, I was told I didn't know what I was talking about and that I couldn't be dyslexic or ADHD since I could read and played video games for hours on end. I don't like medication and it took me a long time to admit it to others, but the world isn't going to change to fit how I function. So, I use medication to fit myself into it for my basic survival needs. >> As such we see more: single parent homes, abundance of medication, reduction in religion and adult social clubs, etc. Reduction in religion is not a negitive, I personally experienced it as mental and shaming child abuse within a roman catholic/protestant home. Even now I experience it as other people overstepping themselves by trying to insert and force their righteous will onto my personhood and that of my nieces/nephews. I have a difficult time understanding how this is still allowed and even valued. Of course my family also doesn't see or remember any of this the way I do.
- 0134340 4y ago
  I can sort of agree then you throw in loose correlations like less worshiping of gods = higher ADHD diagnosis, among others. If you look at the bible belt, there's lots of drug abuse, especially opiates among them. Do you have any data that positively proves more worshiping of gods = less drug use?
- mwigdahl 4y ago
  Let's be very careful with attributing children's medical conditions to parental failure. This is the same line of thinking that brought us "refrigerator mothers", piling on loads of undeserved and unjust guilt on blameless parents of autistic children that were already trying their hardest to help their kids. Unless you have solid studies that establish _causation_, not correlation, to back up your assertions, your facile dismissal of all existing medical research in favor of your own personal social prescriptions deserves zero consideration.
jobu 4y ago
As the parent of a child with ADHD that is medicated, it seems completely plausible that it could cause depression. When my kid has had too high a dosage (or accidentally takes a double dose) she's like a zombie, completely flat affect, and very little motivation. It's like it drains her life away. Part of the problem is that it's very difficult to get the right dosage for any given day because diet, metabolism, and hormones seem to have a big impact on how effective it is. We've found it's better to go with a lower-dose extended release, and then let her self-medicate with 5mg regular tablets as needed. This works great now because she's a fairly responsible teenager (when medicated), but it was really hard when she was younger.
- adastra22 4y ago
  What is she taking?
  - jobu 4y ago
    It's changed a few times over the years because of insurance, but right now it's Focalin XR and 5mg Ritalin as needed up to 2 times a day.
    - adastra22 4y ago
      Thanks!
- krono 4y ago
  I share this experience myself, in particular the dosage not providing a consistent effect day to day - every specialist I've spoken has told me this is weird and shouldn't be happening and yet it is so. Switching to staged release medication (Medikinet CR) has helped me too. Unfortunately extended release Methylphenidate of any kind/brand is only partially covered by Dutch health insurance[1], and I'm certain the cost is prohibitive for people who might be less well off. 1: In essence, the government has determined that all Methylphenidate variants are equal, and so you can just take the cheapest instant release variant or else pay the difference out of your own pocket.
- 4y ago

The study also does not claim to show a causal relationship.

by pflats 4y ago

The study also does not claim to show a causal relationship.

I was actually going to point that out. IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. Especially "being to hyper" or "being unable to focus" have a different issue. Children are supposed to be outside moving 8-12 hours a day, have you seen puppies? They need something similar. Instead many parents give their children tablets, plop them in front of the TV and do something else. Kick them into the back yard or go throw a ball with them. Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them. Bringing them to the gym, to the park, playing in the backyard; it's a lot of work. Kids who have trouble focusing are likely tired and overstimulated. Reduce the number of toys, remove TV / tablets, and send them outside. It'll probably solve itself. As an experiment, look at the people you know on medication (or ask), look at the troubled children, etc. I guarantee you'll see the same trend: single parent home, started medication at an early age, regular therapist appointments, etc. They're unhappy and need depressants, ADHD medication, etc. It's not always the case, but it's a trend. People who are diagnosed with ADHD at a younger age likely have parents who just don't want / know how to deal with issues. Mental health "experts" treat the symptoms via medication, but the underlying issue(s) just continue to fester. What we really need is a strong emphasis on family development, courses built around it and support groups. Parents naturally do this, but I think it's been severely broken down the past 50-60 years and is getting exponentially worse. As such we see more: single parent homes, abundance of medication, reduction in religion and adult social clubs, etc.

zrail 4y ago
So it feels to me that you're saying ADHD doesn't exist and it's a matter of parental failure or indifference. Do I have that right?
- nominusllc 4y ago
  I have ADHD, and increasing eustress by working out or doing fun physical things like sports to the point of being tired is one thing that is better than anything I've been prescribed. It's not fall asleep tired, it's more akin to being physically spent. When there is no more need to fidget and do things, I focus like a laser and am less prone to impulse.
  - adastra22 4y ago
    Great it works for you. You probably have the hyperactive type of ADHD. For me and my daughter with inattentive/non-hyperactive ADD, doing physical things, while fun, just make us tired and want to sleep. Not a good idea if you need to focus and get work done. I take daily medication and it has been literally life saving as I was able to turn things around and keep my marriage from falling apart, not to mention my happiness from being able to accomplish much, much more. I'm holding off medication for my daughter only because it lessens appetite and she is very skinny already. Once she's grown to her full height we'll get her meds she can use too.
    - nominusllc 4y ago
      I feel for you, I hope you guys settle on something that works with as little sides as possible. It's a spectrum with a lot of means to address a moving target, so some trial and error unfortunately comes with it. Luckily I was able to work with my doc to find things that work for the things that eustress cannot solve. Just curious, what do you take?
- davemp 4y ago
  I don’t see how you are getting that from OP’s comment. OP seems to be claiming that ADHD is often over diagnosed and/or treated improperly. A viewpoint shared by people I know in the field.
300bps 4y ago
Bringing them to the gym, to the park, playing in the backyard; it's a lot of work. I agree with your point but as I’m wrapping up raising my own children I’m coming to the conclusion that I made it a lot harder in myself. Driving them to a million activities, even driving them to playgrounds several times per week, Home Depot kids workshops and so much more. Sometimes I think a better thing would’ve been to simply say, “Go play outside.”
- robonerd 4y ago
  Whenever I was moping around inside, my mother always told me "Go be bored OUTSIDE"
greesil 4y ago
"People who are diagnosed with ADHD at a younger age likely have parents who just don't want / know how to deal with issues." Once you have a child with ADHD, or if you are someone with ADHD, you will understand just how wrong you are. Until then, enjoy your bliss.
- citilife 4y ago
  I formed this opinion from knowing many and seeing the way they are being / were raised. There's quite a bit of evidence to support this btw (outside of my observations). https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1471-2431-12-50 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1471-2431-12-50 > Approximately 10% of the sample was classified as having ADHD. We found depression, anxiety, healthcare coverage, and male sex of child to have increased odds of being diagnosed with ADHD. One of the salient features of this study was observing a significant association between ADHD and variables such as TV usage, participation in sports, two-parent family structure, and family members’ smoking status. Obesity was not found to be significantly associated with ADHD, contrary to some previous studies. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221133551400014X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221133551... > Youth with ADD/ADHD engaged in screen time with an average of 149.1 min/weekday and 59% had a TV in their bedroom. Adjusting for child and family characteristics, having a TV in the bedroom was associated with 25 minute higher daily screen time (95% CI: 12.8–37.4 min/day). A bedroom TV was associated with 32% higher odds of engaging in screen time for over 2 h/day (OR = 1.3; 95% CI: 1.0–1.7). https://journals.lww.com/jrnldbp/Abstract/2018/04000/Sleeping,_TV,_Cognitively_Stimulating_Activities,.2.aspx https://journals.lww.com/jrnldbp/Abstract/2018/04000/Sleepin... > A shorter sleep duration and less time spent in cognitively stimulating activities were associated with an increased risk of developing ADHD symptoms and behavior problems. There's plenty more, but the gist is pretty clear. Get your kids outside, give them a supportive and safe environment, teach them how to behave like adults, give them plenty of sleep, and provide them plenty of opportunities to learn. All those reduce risk of depression and ADHD (hence the correlation above).
  - Djvacto 4y ago
    > Youth with ADD/ADHD engaged in screen time with an average of 149.1 min/weekday and 59% had a TV in their bedroom. Adjusting for child and family characteristics, having a TV in the bedroom was associated with 25 minute higher daily screen time (95% CI: 12.8–37.4 min/day). A bedroom TV was associated with 32% higher odds of engaging in screen time for over 2 h/day (OR = 1.3; 95% CI: 1.0–1.7). This does not imply causation. Someone with ADHD is more likely to give in to distraction and dopamine. This study was done with a sample of people who already have ADHD. Nothing in it indicates that television time is going to cause ADHD. Someone who has a better relationship with exercise, screens, or whatever, doesn't mean they don't have ADHD anymore. Medicated or not. They just have better support and lifestyle habits that minimize how much it might impact them.
kevinpet 4y ago
Thanks, professor. Now how about you tell us your solution to peace in the middle east and renewable power.
adastra22 4y ago
As someone with ADHD, who has a kid with ADHD, this dismissive attitude is really unwelcome. Inattentiveness is a real symptom with drastic life-altering effects for which medication is a godsend. Studies have shown that exposure to screen time does not result in ADHD. To be told "you're just a bad parent who lets their kid watch an iPad too much" is infuriating. (I'm trying to keep things civil per the site rules, but my honest reaction begins with 'F' and ends with 'U', guy.)
- ericd 4y ago
  Maybe don't take it personally, I think they're saying that much of society is doing it wrong. EDIT: But yes, they’re also saying that many parents are doing it wrong, and they’re assigning much of the blame to parenting. My point was that when a huge percentage of parents are “doing it wrong”, maybe there’s some wider systemic thing at play. Like economic forces that make people work harder than they should if they have kids, dissolution of support networks that would’ve normally cared for the kids in addition to the parents, etc. I’m not saying that this is a cause of ADHD, because I know little about it, but if you take their opinion as correct, then much of the blame could be laid at the societal structures we’ve created rather than the individual.
  - MereInterest 4y ago
    No, there's some incredibly broad brush strokes in the parent comment. * "Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them." * "look at the people you know on medication (or ask), look at the troubled children, etc. I guarantee you'll see the same trend" * "likely have parents who just don't want / know how to deal with issues" There's only a single phrase "not always the case, but it's a trend" that frames it as a societal issue on average, but that doesn't counter the incredibly general conclusions made by the poster.
    - lghh 4y ago
      I can't believe the responder had the gall to take personal attacks personally. Have they tried going outside more? If they didn't sit on their butt all day they might not be inclined to take my directed insults personally.
zzen 4y ago
> “ People who are diagnosed with ADHD at a younger age likely have parents who just don't want / know how to deal with issues.” I have no idea where you take this opinion from or if you can back it up. From my anecdotal evidence exactly the opposite is true: kids from families who do realize there is such a thing as mental health and who care deeply about their kids - those get diagnosed. Kids from other families just get mostly slapped around and screamed at to get their shit together.
mchanson 4y ago
This comment is BS and showing ugly judgement of others. Really old school thinking like how they used to blame mothers for autism.
luckydata 4y ago
This is a very, very, very uninformed take. Please inform yourself. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976342100049X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976342...
benfrain 4y ago
You clearly don’t have a clue what you are talking about. I have a child clinically diagnosed with ADHD. It’s absolutely nothing to do with time spent with him. We have stable family home, active life style. etc He just has a brain that works differently. Not worse. Different. He might struggle to pay attention at school but he’s written two novels! PS. Religion is horse shit so if that’s the only other thing you have left for me to help him, I’ll take my chances, thanks
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  If you feel his brain is "just different", I have a question; Are you medicating them?
Djvacto 4y ago
I started medication as an adult, lived in a home with two involved & present parents, never saw any doctor about ADHD until I was an adult, and was never an unhappy child. Looking back, I clearly had ADHD, but since it's a condition that's unique and specific symptoms vary per person, I just happened to have mechanisms that worked and got lucky with how my brain patterns fit into school from Elementary - High School. I had plenty of outdoor activity, and plenty of video games / computer use. Not that you mentioned it, but I also read fantasy/sci-fi books like they were daily papers, finished all of my incomplete homework in the morning while waiting for class to start, and was constantly multi-tasking in class (reading, doing homework for an upcoming class, or occasionally fidgeting). My sample size is 1, but I have 4-5 diagnosed (either as kids or adults) close friends with similar stories. Your comment takes some generally-well-known positive advice (exercise more, social interaction & supportive relationships are good, parenting kids is a big task that takes time & effort), and identifies some real problems we face today (social isolation, a lack of non-religious adult organizations, sedentary lifestyles) and uses it to disparage people with real, diagnosable conditions, and vilifying those who turn to medication for it. I'm fine with how my life worked out, but I can't imagine being the kind of kid whose ADHD manifested in a different way that made school exponentially harder than it was for me, and being told that life-changing medicine, that let me participate in school or work just like everyone else does, is something I was given by mistake, or that I just had shit parents or should have played outside more.
- lettergram 4y ago
  As you pointed out ADHD is a disease, what’s the cause? Do you have adhd, or do the drugs help you focus and you want that? Calling it a disease implies something is wrong, but having trouble focusing isn’t “wrong”. It’s a skill one can acquire and may have a variety of factors impacting it (from genetics to environment to mental management). That’s the issue I personally take with these kind of discussions. Medication may help you focus (coffee does that), but do people who need coffee in the morning to focus well have a disease? Hardly.
  - Taywee 4y ago
    Not them, and I don't have ADHD, but I am the parent of a child with ADHD and I know plenty of people with ADHD, and it's not just "having trouble focusing". For a lot of people, it's a complete inability to focus on any one thing for any real amount of time. They can try as hard as they can to force themselves, but become disfocused and distracted despite any effort. It also often involves impulsiveness that is incredibly difficult to control, to the point that often it feels like it wasn't even their own choice. A common description I've heard is that it feels like somebody else was controlling them. My son would say when he was younger "My brain made me do it" or "my hands just did it on their own", and at first I thought it was an excuse, but after one destructive incident, he broke down crying at the age of 7 saying that he doesn't know why he does the things he does, and he can't stop or control himself, and he wishes he could stop himself from doing it. He tries to be good but then something takes control and makes him do destructive things or blurt out things he knows are wrong to say. On medication now, he still has a hard time, but he is actually capable of controlling himself, he is capable of forcing himself to focus, and he's much happier. Now it is just a skill for him to work on, but in the past, it was an actual impossibility. It is a true disorder, not just "trouble focusing", and ADHD medication is a fundamental need for some people to function at all, and not comparable to a morning coffee. In the past, these people were often assumed to be possessed, or insane, and were institutionalized, killed, or imprisoned. It's not like ADHD is a new epidemic or something.
ihsw 4y ago
This echos my experience to a T. I struggled as a single parent of a child and I hold myself responsible for them developing ADHD. I did my best and most days I was too tired to give my child the attention and guidance they needed and he suffered needlessly. I resisted prescription medication for as long as possible until it became absolutely necessary. It works and there are side-effects, including symptoms that overlap with depression. I am spending more time with my son (especially physical activities) and I hope someday he doesn't need methylphenidate. I am likely still shadow-banned and nobody will see this message. I hope this message gets out and more single parents get the help they need.
terracatta 4y ago
> Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them You must not know many parents then. Parents I know that have children with ADHD recognize their children are struggling beyond simple hyperactivity. These are children that are markedly behind their peers in childhood milestones regardless of their family upbringing, education, and socio-economic status. These are children that have a deficiency in the executive function of their brains where hyperactivity is one of many symptoms, and is not even necessarily the most worrying. These are children that struggle with simple tasks that other children do not. Parents of these children are no less loving, caring, or capable than parents without ADHD children. Parents should not be shamed for using effective medications (like MDH) so their children can have positive outcomes in their development and adult-life. > What we really need is a strong emphasis on family development, courses built around it and support groups ADHD is generally a disorder that you are born with. No amount of family development can prevent the disease. Educate yourself by watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQu-OPrzUc&t=137s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUQu-OPrzUc&t=137s
- lettergram 4y ago
  Couldn’t the posters point about lack of parental engagement be the root cause for being behind their peers? I’m sorry, it doesn’t seem like you’re really challenging the argument.
  - zrail 4y ago
    > it doesn’t seem like you’re really challenging the argument. That's probably because it's an argument uninformed by even the slightest bit of research into how a brain with ADHD works. Also you're sealioning, so :reported:
    - lettergram 4y ago
      > sealioning huh hadn't heard that before -- good to know
sha256sum 4y ago
> IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. I see this with someone close to me. Diagnosed with ADHD as a child, medicated, later diagnosed with depression. The real issue, however, was probably more related to brain development/executive function because their mother smoked a pack of cigarettes a day through pregnancy. You've struck a nerve with some commenters, but personally I think you're on to something.
- citilife 4y ago
  It's hard for people to reason when they are fearful they are doing the wrong thing. I question the same thing everyday for my family. One way I try to explain it to people: "We give people insulin because they have diabetes. Diabetes is the disease, but you can cure it through diet and exercise for Type 2 (it's environmental), Type 1 you cannot (it's genetic). Giving insulin treats the disease, but doesnt' sure it" This is the same thing for ADHD or depression. Some people probably have Type 1, others (I think the vast majority) have Type 2. Sure you can mask the issue, somewhat. But you can't cure it through the medications today.
- lukas099 4y ago
  To counter your anecdote with my own: I grew up in a two-parent household. I had a doting, stay-home mom who spent lots of time with us. I lived in a safe neighborhood where I rode bikes with other kids for miles around during the summer. My family took long road trips to places like Yellowstone National Park for weeks and day trips to the zoo, the botanical gardens, the science museum, etc. I did not have a TV in my room and screen time was limited. I was involved in sports at school, summer swim team, and karate which my dad did with us. I have ADHD which resulted in crippling depression when I was in college. As soon as I got diagnosed and medicated, I was able to be like the normal people that I always wanted to be, and align my actions with my goals.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
> Every child I know diagnosed with ADHD had parents who didn't want to deal with them. I was diagnosed as an adult. My parents kept me consistently active and engaged. Plenty of play outdoors, fishing, camping, riding bikes. They were involved in my education until, as a teen, I wanted more independence. I’m not saying I had an ideal upbringing, but I have very loving involved parents (dad and stepmom; relevant below). I don’t know if that’s why my diagnosis came later, but I seriously doubt it. My mom, unlike my dad and stepmom, was deeply skeptical (a) that ADHD even exists and (b) that ADHD medication is safe, effective, or necessary. That kind of bias is powerful, and easy for kids to pick up on. I was mortified of these meds before my diagnosis. Now I can’t imagine how I lived without them (and I very well may not be alive today had I not sought treatment). I’m sure there’s often some truth to some of what you’re saying, to be clear. One of the most difficult parts of getting my diagnosis was that the diagnostic criteria are entirely external to the patient being diagnosed: they’re framed around how parents and other adults perceive a child’s behavior. It took a patient and understanding doctor to help me map those criteria to my internal experiences and my adult life. But I don’t think I benefitted at all from waiting decades for a diagnosis.
random-human 4y ago
>> As an experiment, look at the people you know on medication (or ask), look at the troubled children, etc. I guarantee you'll see the same trend: single parent home, started medication at an early age, regular therapist appointments, etc. They're unhappy and need depressants, ADHD medication, etc. That sounds like me. My parents are stilled married and about to have their 45th anniversary. The extended family are all on their first marriage and in retirement age or raising families. I started medication after 30, mental health is not a valid thing in my traditional family. According to them, my struggles were because I hadn't learned my proper place yet. Shame and ridicule from adults, and allowing others in the family to participate, was their idea of proper treatment that would 'fix' me into being a proper young lady. This after their first attempts to keep me in line failed. After that, exclusion within family events, that I was forced to attend, was the treatment of choice. At least less parental attention meant they couldn't keep reminding me how defective I was. Unsurprisingly, I was very unhappy and depressed. Then I decided to love myself and see the absolute dysfunction this nuclear religious anti-mental health family idea is. Now, I am the most well-traveled, curious, adventurous and financially successful person in the family. That didn't happen until I was able to get the help I needed. By help, I mean medication to do the core things only I'm responsible for in a world that doesn't fit into the way I function. Provide myself with food and shelter as an adult. I am on the higher end of hyperactive ADHD, also dyslexic - which I learned after getting medication for ADHD. I noticed similarities in my niece, I was told I didn't know what I was talking about and that I couldn't be dyslexic or ADHD since I could read and played video games for hours on end. I don't like medication and it took me a long time to admit it to others, but the world isn't going to change to fit how I function. So, I use medication to fit myself into it for my basic survival needs. >> As such we see more: single parent homes, abundance of medication, reduction in religion and adult social clubs, etc. Reduction in religion is not a negitive, I personally experienced it as mental and shaming child abuse within a roman catholic/protestant home. Even now I experience it as other people overstepping themselves by trying to insert and force their righteous will onto my personhood and that of my nieces/nephews. I have a difficult time understanding how this is still allowed and even valued. Of course my family also doesn't see or remember any of this the way I do.
0134340 4y ago
I can sort of agree then you throw in loose correlations like less worshiping of gods = higher ADHD diagnosis, among others. If you look at the bible belt, there's lots of drug abuse, especially opiates among them. Do you have any data that positively proves more worshiping of gods = less drug use?
mwigdahl 4y ago
Let's be very careful with attributing children's medical conditions to parental failure. This is the same line of thinking that brought us "refrigerator mothers", piling on loads of undeserved and unjust guilt on blameless parents of autistic children that were already trying their hardest to help their kids. Unless you have solid studies that establish _causation_, not correlation, to back up your assertions, your facile dismissal of all existing medical research in favor of your own personal social prescriptions deserves zero consideration.

jobu 4y ago

As the parent of a child with ADHD that is medicated, it seems completely plausible that it could cause depression. When my kid has had too high a dosage (or accidentally takes a double dose) she's like a zombie, completely flat affect, and very little motivation. It's like it drains her life away. Part of the problem is that it's very difficult to get the right dosage for any given day because diet, metabolism, and hormones seem to have a big impact on how effective it is. We've found it's better to go with a lower-dose extended release, and then let her self-medicate with 5mg regular tablets as needed. This works great now because she's a fairly responsible teenager (when medicated), but it was really hard when she was younger.

adastra22 4y ago
What is she taking?
- jobu 4y ago
  It's changed a few times over the years because of insurance, but right now it's Focalin XR and 5mg Ritalin as needed up to 2 times a day.
  - adastra22 4y ago
    Thanks!
krono 4y ago
I share this experience myself, in particular the dosage not providing a consistent effect day to day - every specialist I've spoken has told me this is weird and shouldn't be happening and yet it is so. Switching to staged release medication (Medikinet CR) has helped me too. Unfortunately extended release Methylphenidate of any kind/brand is only partially covered by Dutch health insurance[1], and I'm certain the cost is prohibitive for people who might be less well off. 1: In essence, the government has determined that all Methylphenidate variants are equal, and so you can just take the cheapest instant release variant or else pay the difference out of your own pocket.
4y ago