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Before anyone jumps to why Chrome doesn't block third-party cookies, some context: Regulators did warn Google NOT TO block third-party cookies before they prov

Before anyone jumps to why Chrome doesn't block third-party cookies, some context: Regulators did warn Google NOT TO block third-party cookies before they provide a replacement, UK CMA accepted the latest proposal from Google: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-to-keep-close-eye-on-google-as-it-secures-final-privacy-sandbox-commitments https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-to-keep-close-eye-on-... Apple's tracking rules also raised a lot of anti-trust concerns, giving advertisement in App Store unfair advantages among other ad platforms. Latest from German Government: https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Publikation/EN/Pressemitteilungen/2022/14_06_2022_Apple.pdf https://www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Publikation/EN/Pr... Banning third-party cookies will increase the gap between Google, Microsoft, Apple and other ad platforms, because they can still track you based on your account (e.g. Gmail, Hotmail, iCloud). It's a huge red flag for antitrust cases they are facing (especially Google).

ComodoHacker 4y ago
Just to clarify, Total Cookie Protection in Firefox is not the same as blocking third-party cookies. Firefox will accept third-party cookies and send them back, but only on this particular site. So third parties (read ad networks) will be able to track you on any site, but not across sites (without some other means of tracking).
- bpodgursky 4y ago
  Yeah, which is why sites are all requiring logins nowdays, so they can use server-side ID syncs.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > so they can use server-side ID syncs Does this only work if you use the same email across multiple sites? If so it's yet another reason to use a different email address with every site you sign up at.
    - Vinnl 4y ago
      Which incidentally Mozilla also has a product for: https://relay.firefox.com https://relay.firefox.com (Disclosure: I work on Firefox Relay :) And yes, I know some people also have their own domain with unlimited email addresses.)
      - EmilyHATFIELD 4y ago
        Is there any plans to support naming my different relay addresses? :) The service is awesome but it's quite confusing to know which one to use on which websites and which one to delete etc
        Vinnl 4y ago
        There is already! However, depending on how long you've been a user, you might not see it yet; there's an option to allow us to store that data on our servers that we didn't turn on for people who were using Relay before that setting was introduced. You can enable it here ("Allow ⁨Relay⁩ to collect data showing the sites on which your masks are created and used"): https://relay.firefox.com/accounts/settings/ https://relay.firefox.com/accounts/settings/ If you use the extension [1] [2], it can also store them locally if you want, and it will automatically track where you used the addresses, rather than you having to manually label them. And finally, if you have Relay Premium, you can claim your own subdomain, and come up with an arbitrary address name (e.g. "hackernews@yourdomain.mozmail.com"), but since that's less anonymous than a random address, we recommend only using that if you need to come up with an address on the spot in the real world. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/private-relay/ https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/private-relay/ [2] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/firefox-relay/lknpoadjjkjcmjhbjpcljdednccbldeb https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/firefox-relay/lknp...
      - altncatchfire 4y ago
        I've been following Firefox Relay features for a bit now. Is there a difference between the service offered by Firefox Relay premium to the free DuckDuckGo Email Protection? Do you believe DDG will also eventually move to the subscription model for these features (unlimited aliases, reply to sender)?
- robin_reala 4y ago
  If you don’t want Firefox to do even that, you can go to Settings, click on Privacy & Security, then choose the Strict option. It’ll warn you that it might break sites, but you can always turn it off on a site-specific level by clicking on the shield in the address bar and turning off the toggle.
  - account42 4y ago
    Be aware though that this will make firefox tell sites that you want a light color scheme instead of doing the more sensible thing and indicating no preference.
    - PaulStatezny 4y ago
      This chain of replies containing only pertinent facts to inform the reader exemplifies what's so great about Hacker News. :-)
    - Nemo157 4y ago
      Though IIRC from some bugginess I was noticing a while ago, only to the JS API, it will still obey the dark color scheme media query (but sometimes inconsistently, I would load the same page in multiple tabs and sometimes get dark or light schemes).
    - robin_reala 4y ago
      Interesting. I’m a light mode user, so hadn’t seen that.
TekMol 4y ago
they can still track you based on your account (e.g. Gmail, Hotmail, iCloud) Really? I don't think so. How would that work? If you visit www.somesite.com - how would javascript on that site identify you via Gmail?
- lucideer 4y ago
  What application are you using to visit that site?
- pilsetnieks 4y ago
  Because Google's, Apple's and Microsoft's accounts specifically are tied to their particular browser and/or OS, not just the websites you're on. So are Firefox accounts but they probably don't have the numbers to engage in any particularly egregious behavior.
  - TekMol 4y ago
    What kind of mechanic are you describing? Are you saying the browser is phoning home, telling Google which sites you visit?
    - pilsetnieks 4y ago
      Yes. You can turn it off, though, if you take Google at its word. https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/54068?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/54068?hl=en&co=G...
    - chefandy 4y ago
      Well, Chrome obviously does if you’re ‘signed in’ to Google and haven’t turned off their sync settings… which I imagine is the most common end user path, and chrome is the most popular browser. https://www.google.com/chrome/privacy/ https://www.google.com/chrome/privacy/
  - nightpool 4y ago
    Are you saying that Google is using their control of the user agent to specifically tie a Google auth cookie to an individual third-party-context web request even when third party cookies are blocked? If so, that would be a major scandal. What evidence do you have that this is the case?
dahart 4y ago
Ah that’s very interesting. This really goes to show how powerful companies get when they have decent market share in the browser space while they have products on the web that have decent market share in other spaces, when there are grave concerns about what they do on either side of a decision. Chrome has been damn convenient from a dev perspective, and damn good, but the list of reasons I should be reaching for Firefox more often seems to be growing.
mywittyname 4y ago
Yet another reason that we need to ensure that third party browsers are being used and in active development.
de6u99er 4y ago
>Total Cookie Protection creates a separate cookie jar for each website you visit. Means third parties win't be able to identify you qccriss sites through cookies. Means the Google Ads cookie or Floc ID will be different for each site you visit.
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ComodoHacker 4y ago

Just to clarify, Total Cookie Protection in Firefox is not the same as blocking third-party cookies. Firefox will accept third-party cookies and send them back, but only on this particular site. So third parties (read ad networks) will be able to track you on any site, but not across sites (without some other means of tracking).

bpodgursky 4y ago
Yeah, which is why sites are all requiring logins nowdays, so they can use server-side ID syncs.
- logifail 4y ago
  > so they can use server-side ID syncs Does this only work if you use the same email across multiple sites? If so it's yet another reason to use a different email address with every site you sign up at.
  - Vinnl 4y ago
    Which incidentally Mozilla also has a product for: https://relay.firefox.com https://relay.firefox.com (Disclosure: I work on Firefox Relay :) And yes, I know some people also have their own domain with unlimited email addresses.)
    - EmilyHATFIELD 4y ago
      Is there any plans to support naming my different relay addresses? :) The service is awesome but it's quite confusing to know which one to use on which websites and which one to delete etc
      - Vinnl 4y ago
        There is already! However, depending on how long you've been a user, you might not see it yet; there's an option to allow us to store that data on our servers that we didn't turn on for people who were using Relay before that setting was introduced. You can enable it here ("Allow ⁨Relay⁩ to collect data showing the sites on which your masks are created and used"): https://relay.firefox.com/accounts/settings/ https://relay.firefox.com/accounts/settings/ If you use the extension [1] [2], it can also store them locally if you want, and it will automatically track where you used the addresses, rather than you having to manually label them. And finally, if you have Relay Premium, you can claim your own subdomain, and come up with an arbitrary address name (e.g. "hackernews@yourdomain.mozmail.com"), but since that's less anonymous than a random address, we recommend only using that if you need to come up with an address on the spot in the real world. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/private-relay/ https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/private-relay/ [2] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/firefox-relay/lknpoadjjkjcmjhbjpcljdednccbldeb https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/firefox-relay/lknp...
    - altncatchfire 4y ago
      I've been following Firefox Relay features for a bit now. Is there a difference between the service offered by Firefox Relay premium to the free DuckDuckGo Email Protection? Do you believe DDG will also eventually move to the subscription model for these features (unlimited aliases, reply to sender)?
robin_reala 4y ago
If you don’t want Firefox to do even that, you can go to Settings, click on Privacy & Security, then choose the Strict option. It’ll warn you that it might break sites, but you can always turn it off on a site-specific level by clicking on the shield in the address bar and turning off the toggle.
- account42 4y ago
  Be aware though that this will make firefox tell sites that you want a light color scheme instead of doing the more sensible thing and indicating no preference.
  - PaulStatezny 4y ago
    This chain of replies containing only pertinent facts to inform the reader exemplifies what's so great about Hacker News. :-)
  - Nemo157 4y ago
    Though IIRC from some bugginess I was noticing a while ago, only to the JS API, it will still obey the dark color scheme media query (but sometimes inconsistently, I would load the same page in multiple tabs and sometimes get dark or light schemes).
  - robin_reala 4y ago
    Interesting. I’m a light mode user, so hadn’t seen that.

TekMol 4y ago

they can still track you based on your account (e.g. Gmail, Hotmail, iCloud) Really? I don't think so. How would that work? If you visit www.somesite.com - how would javascript on that site identify you via Gmail?

lucideer 4y ago
What application are you using to visit that site?
pilsetnieks 4y ago
Because Google's, Apple's and Microsoft's accounts specifically are tied to their particular browser and/or OS, not just the websites you're on. So are Firefox accounts but they probably don't have the numbers to engage in any particularly egregious behavior.
- TekMol 4y ago
  What kind of mechanic are you describing? Are you saying the browser is phoning home, telling Google which sites you visit?
  - pilsetnieks 4y ago
    Yes. You can turn it off, though, if you take Google at its word. https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/54068?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/54068?hl=en&co=G...
  - chefandy 4y ago
    Well, Chrome obviously does if you’re ‘signed in’ to Google and haven’t turned off their sync settings… which I imagine is the most common end user path, and chrome is the most popular browser. https://www.google.com/chrome/privacy/ https://www.google.com/chrome/privacy/
- nightpool 4y ago
  Are you saying that Google is using their control of the user agent to specifically tie a Google auth cookie to an individual third-party-context web request even when third party cookies are blocked? If so, that would be a major scandal. What evidence do you have that this is the case?

dahart 4y ago

Ah that’s very interesting. This really goes to show how powerful companies get when they have decent market share in the browser space while they have products on the web that have decent market share in other spaces, when there are grave concerns about what they do on either side of a decision. Chrome has been damn convenient from a dev perspective, and damn good, but the list of reasons I should be reaching for Firefox more often seems to be growing.

mywittyname 4y ago

Yet another reason that we need to ensure that third party browsers are being used and in active development.

de6u99er 4y ago

>Total Cookie Protection creates a separate cookie jar for each website you visit. Means third parties win't be able to identify you qccriss sites through cookies. Means the Google Ads cookie or Floc ID will be different for each site you visit.

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