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I’d say post-Brexit England has drifted away from the far right. The whole EDL/Britain First/UKIP sentiment has only waned massively since then. The ruling gove
by carnitine 4y ago
I’d say post-Brexit England has drifted away from the far right. The whole EDL/Britain First/UKIP sentiment has only waned massively since then. The ruling government has not come close to far right at any point.
- nextstep 4y agoThis is the funniest comment in this whole thread. Many of the ideas of UKIP and the others have been adopted by the Tories! And the main opposition party (Labour) has been taken over by centre-right neoliberals. The left had a tiny bit of power pre-Brexit. Now it has none.
- NoGravitas 4y agoYep, Labor has had neoliberal leadership since the 90s, but they finally thoroughly purged their left a couple of years ago.
- smcl 4y agoPerhaps the fringe far-right parties have all but disintegrated, but the Tories have certainly drifted rightward and they're essentially untouchable in England in spite of ... well, everything
- cstross 4y agoThat's my point. UKIP and BXP disintegrated because their more competent members colonized the Conservative Party, which is now much more radical and far-right than it was under Cameron. The only surviving cabinet minister from Cameron's era (2010-2016) is Michael Gove. The rest are all new faces with far right credentials and a commitment to the hardest of hard Brexits.
- eushebdbsh 4y agoso they haven't drifted away from the right. the centre has moved right
- eyko 4y ago> new faces with far right credentials I'm not sure what your definition of far right is but that statement is quite far from the truth.
- MagnumOpus 4y agoThat statement is very much the truth. I don't know whether you follow politics outside the UK, or whether you remember the UK from 10 years ago? In both cases the policies of the current government -- from hard Brexit to unilaterally renouncing the GFA to interning asylum seekers in Rwanda to deporting pension-aged Windrush people to the Caribbean to the "hostile environment" for legal immigrants and foreign students etc etc -- are far more to the right than the derided far-right parties espouse in France or Germany, and far more to the right than the UKIP or BNP ever asked for...
- eyko 4y agoTo be fair, I've only lived in the UK for just over a decade. That being said, I do remember BNP and the EDL. Whilst there's an intersection between EDL/BNP and present-day Brexit (i.e. Conservative party) supporters, I wouldn't say the government represents the views held by the former. In fact, groups like the BNP advocated for compulsory deportation of non-whites (during Tyndall) and later pivoted to a modern version of politely asking us to leave[1]. Whilst Windrush was comparable, I don't think it is to the scale of what a BNP majority would've ever looked like. Regarding the GFA, I'm obviously lacking context and perspective, but I see it more as an oversight and bad leadership than an intentional break away from it, but with the current government I never know what to think. 1. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/20/bnp-membership-list-analysis https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/20/bnp-members... "...firm but voluntary incentives for immigrants and their descendants to return home".
- dankboys 4y agoNothing says "British far right" like a Cabinet full of ethnic minorities.
- scott_w 4y agoOur Home Secretary has just instituted an illegal policy of deporting African and Asian refugees to Rwanda. Irrespective of the colour of her skin, her actions are those of the far right.
- dankboys 4y agoThe...legal policy?
- scott_w 4y agoThe policy so legal, everyone is now pulled from the flight and it was cancelled after a challenge to the ECHR.
- robin_reala 4y agoI thouroughly disagree with the practice and it’s morally repugnant, but hasn’t it just been court-tested and declared legal? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/10/uk-deportation-flight-rwanda-can-go-ahead-high-court-judge-rules https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/10/uk-deportati...
- scott_w 4y agoNo, it hasn’t. The court ruled that there’s nothing in U.K. law that bars specific flights but they didn’t rule on the legality of the policy itself. This will be challenged at the court of appeal and will, eventually, be found a breach of international law.
- 88 4y agoSo it’s illegal in your opinion but not in actual fact?
- carnitine 4y agoWho exactly in the cabinet is far right? Truss, Sunak, Javid, Raab and the rest hardly come across as the right wing mob. Rees-Mogg is the only one who maybe comes remotely close and he’s got one of the most minor positions.
- scott_w 4y agoTruss is moving to break a treaty to appease the far right nutters in her party. Javid, as Home Secretary, stripped a teenager of her British citizenship, leaving her stateless and stranded somewhere in Iraq or Syria.
- Veen 4y agoThe teenager is a terrorist sympathiser who left the UK to join Isis. And she isn’t a teenager any more.
- forgingahead 4y agoFor those reading along, the "teenager" being referenced is Shamima Begum, who ran away from home when she was 15 to allegedly join ISIS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamima_Begum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamima_Begum There's an interesting discussion to be had about whether a government official can strip someone of their citizenship (even though in the UK it seems to be part of their powers under the Nationality Act) - it's not correct to frame this emotionally under "deported a teenager" when there are specific issues at play here. Same with slandering anyone who is not politically aligned with you as "far right".
- camjw 4y agoNotwithstanding the bizarre "far right credentials" point: - Liz Truss (current Foreign Secretary) was SoS for DEFRA under David Cameron. - Sajid Javid (current Health SoS) was BEIS SoS under David Cameron. - Grant Shapps (current Transport SoS) was Minister for Housing under David Cameron and later party chairman. - Brandon Lewis (current SoS for Northern Ireland) was Minister for Housing under DC. - Ben Wallace (clearly ultra right wing (/s), and SoS for Defence), Minister for Northern Ireland under DC. I don't think this is an exhausive list, these are just the SoSs I can think of off the top of my head. Your statement is just so untrue it just makes me think you don't know much about UK politics and don't really care enough to even google your "facts".
- krona 4y ago> The rest are all new faces with far right credentials What does that even mean? That anyone who wasn't a member of the SWP in their youth is automatically a closet fascist?
- camjw 4y agoBen Wallace probably gonna go home and have a silent cry if it he hears someone has been calling him "far right".
- dankboys 4y agoThe Tory party of higher taxes, pride flags covering every government social media account and currently minting coins with the "progressive pride" flag? Sounds like they're about to burn down the Reichstag.
- Jochim 4y agoThey're also the Tory party of criminalising dissent, corruption, Russian influence, and offshoring refugees. The fact that homosexuality isn't as controversial as it once was doesn't preclude their authoritarian nature.
- refurb 4y agoAre they pulling that “it’s zee Russians!” in the UK too? Seems to be a very popular bogeyman all over the Western world.
- MrMan 4y agoBrexit in UK and US exit from nato were both Russian propaganda projects.
- sofixa 4y agoConsidering the amount of dirty Russian money ( Londongrad), the fact that Russian spies tried to assasinate a former Russian spy, murdering British civilians by accident, and Russian support for Brexit... It's not a boogeyman, it's part of the reality.
- refurb 4y agoNone of those things actually infer Russian interference. At least not any more than say Chinese, or French.
- sofixa 4y agoDirty money in the tens/hundreds of billions doesn't infer interference? Including sizeable donations to the Conservative party? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/12/world/europe/russian-money-uk-tories.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/12/world/europe/russian-mone...
- rayiner 4y agoLabour has come to be run by London elites that hate the values of the party’s working class base. In that climate, Tories simply need a pulse to win elections.
- smcl 4y agoI think they could still enjoy success while being run by London elites, if they even pretended to stand up to the Tories or painted themselves as a meaningful alternative they'd clean up. They just seem to be very content sitting as in opposition to the Tories administering the UK in a very slow, sleepy decline.
- rayiner 4y agoLabour has made it clear what they really stand for: the liberal culture values of the urban elite, while paying lip service to, you know, labor. The more they “stand up” on those grounds, the more they will alienate both traditional Labour voters and the working class BAME voters they have become increasingly reliant on.
- smcl 4y agoHonestly, I feel you. I don't know who I'd vote for if I was in England, from the outside I don't see any party I wouldn't hate myself for voting for.
- onion2k 4y agoExactly. People stopped voting for UKIP when the Tories took on UKIP's 'policies'.
- brigandish 4y agoTo lump UKIP in with the other two is absurd.
- VBprogrammer 4y agoNot really. https://images.app.goo.gl/HnsR6uZ436wRQxhf6 https://images.app.goo.gl/HnsR6uZ436wRQxhf6
- tialaramex 4y agoUKIP when it was actually popular was first and foremost an iteration of the Nigel Farage vehicle. Now, UKIP had existed before Farage, and it existed after Farage, but as with a typical far right party it's full of nutters who don't know which part of the message you can say out loud, so it's unelectable. Indeed, in actual UK parliamentary elections even Farage was unelectable, which is why he got into the whole "Brexit" thing because EU elections are seen as less important yet they're also multi-member PR so you can get 20% of the vote in a four seat region and expect to come away with a seat even though the vast majority of people in that region hated you. Mostly though, for Farage this is and always was a scam. So the subsequent parties unlike UKIP were founded from the outset as scam operations e.g. "The Brexit Party" was a private company, owned by Farage and co., profits for the owners not members (indeed for ages you couldn't "join" that party), and paid for by the candidates who Farage then promptly sold out because it was convenient for him personally. You should see all that family of parties as just "The Nigel Farage Party" much more so than e.g. Republicanism is "The Donald Trump Party" because while you're not going to see Republican leadership actually say Trump is a piece of shit any time soon, they'll be here in ten years and he won't whereas the Farage parties without Farage just wither away and die. Anyway, my point is, the popular UKIP was just the Farage Party, it's primarily about putting your money in Farage's wallet and the bigotry is a side show, without Farage that's the main event.
- afavour 4y agoI’d argue that deporting immigrants to Rwanda has a certain far right timbre.
- samwillis 4y agoI think in the context of today specifically with the Rwanda flight I would find it hard to agree with you. True they aren’t all far right, but they do capitalise on decisive policies to invigorate their core supporters.
- SilverBirch 4y agoExcuse me, but literally today is the first day that the government starting flying asylum seekers to Rwanda[1], and yesterday they published legislation with the intention of breaking international law[2]. They've also recently curtailed rights to legal protest[3]. The Prime Minister has a history of law breaking including illegally shutting down our parliament[4]. This government only got their majority when UKIP candidates stood down in favour of the Tory party at the last election. By any reasonable definition England is currently governed by the far right. [1]:https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61791994 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61791994 [2]:https://news.sky.com/story/a-mess-unrealistic-doctrine-of-necessity-three-views-on-northern-ireland-protocol-divisions-12633349 https://news.sky.com/story/a-mess-unrealistic-doctrine-of-ne... [3]:https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56400751 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56400751 [4]:https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/11/uk/scottish-court-uk-parliament-prorogation-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/11/uk/scottish-court-uk-parliame...
- mantas 4y agoDenmark's left-wing government is planning to send away asylum seekers too. It's interesting times when protecting borders from illegal immigration is seen as „far right“. It's not „far right“ rising, it's some people pushing Overton window extremely to the left. https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/denmark-talks-with-rwanda-transfer-asylum-seekers-2022-04-20/ https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/denmark-talks-with-rwan...
- cjrp 4y ago> protecting borders from illegal immigration Asylum-seeking is not illegal immigration.
- throwaway0x7E6 4y agoright, and they're going back once the situation in their home country stabilizes, correct?
- curiousgal 4y agoWhat happens when/if their asylum application gets denied though? At least in France they don't get forced to leave and they find themselves in a strange grey area.
- iso1631 4y agoNot what my ex-tory MP who left the party feels.
- morelisp 4y agoUKIP sentiment hasn't waned, they won. Until there's a serious movement to re-join the EU, the UKIP sentiment is the UK's sentiment.
- brnt 4y agoOverton window in action: the far right is the new normal, so the old far right isn't necessary anymore. New 'parties' will soon aim to achieve another shift.
- andybak 4y agoFor the sake of balance see my other reply on this topic. ;-)