4 ms·

I don't see why not. The whole leaving the EU thing is a reasonable cause for independence. In general I like smaller units of government too, and it's not as i

I don't see why not. The whole leaving the EU thing is a reasonable cause for independence. In general I like smaller units of government too, and it's not as if they can't cooperate with the UK in areas where they agree. I do have a horse in this race as I have Scottish family who'd have more choices with an EU passport.

rightbyte 4y ago
You don't have to join Schengen border cooperation.
- closewith 4y ago
  All EU accession states are legally bound to join Schengen, with the exception of Ireland, which during the negotiations for the Treaty of Amsterdam received (along with the UK) an opt-out. No other nations have this opt-out.
  - iso1631 4y ago
    Yet not all nations are in Schengen. If Scotland were allowed to join the EU (despite Spain's veto) I have no doubt there would be an acceptance that it could remain in the CTA with Ireland and the rest of UK
    - closewith 4y ago
      I'd have the opposite view. It seems unlikely that the bloc will ever provide opt-outs going forward given the difficulties they've caused to date.
      - iso1631 4y ago
        Unlike Denmark, Sweden doesn't have an optout for the Euro, yet hasn't joined.
        lbschenkel 4y ago
        They used a loophole: to adopt Euro you need to be in ERM-II for a while as a pre-requisite, and Sweden found out that there is no rule imposing a timeframe for it to join ERM-II so it is deliberately not joining. IMO this is complying with the letter of the agreement it has with the EU but not the spirit. As far as I understand, the EU closed this loophole for new members but it is turning a blind eye for Sweden. It is fascinating to me that in practice there is this reversal of roles: Sweden is supposed to adopt the Euro and yet has a free-floating currency, and Denmark that has an opt-out deliberately chose to be in ERM-II and has a currency that is pegged to the Euro.
dataengineer56 4y ago
Scotland wouldn't meet the criteria to join the EU - it's far too poor and small by itself. Exiting the UK would just isolate them more.
- walkhour 4y ago
  I expect some European countries like Spain to firmly oppose them joining the European Union, to send a message to inner regions that may also want independence. This idea that Scotland is going to vote for independence from the UK and straight into Europe is far fetched.
- AnnikaL 4y ago
  In 2021, Scotland's GDP per capita was estimated[0] to be about £30,000, or around €35,000 euros. This is hardly poor--even if economic output fell by half on independence, Scotland would still have a higher nominal GDP per capita than many EU members (such as Poland, Romania, and the Baltic States)[1]. I don't know how much independence would affect the economy, but a 50% decrease seems quite harsh. Its population of around 5 million is comparable to other small EU member states such as Ireland, Slovakia, Finland, and Croatia[2]. [0] - https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/statistics/2022/04/gdp-quarterly-national-accounts-2021-q4/documents/gdp-quarterly-national-accounts-publication/gdp-quarterly-national-accounts-publication/govscot%3Adocument/GDP%2BQNAS%2B-%2B2021%2BQ4%2B-%2BPublication.pdf?forceDownload=true https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publ... [1] - https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg_08_10/default/table?lang=en https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg_08_10/def... [2] - https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/tps00001/default/table?lang=en https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/tps00001/defa...
- FinanceAnon 4y ago
  Ireland has a population of 5 million, Scotland 5.5 million.
- Erikun 4y ago
  That isnt correct, perhaps "poor" might be a problem depending on what dept Scotland would have after independence, but definetly not small. Joining criteria are (https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/enlargement-policy/conditions-membership_en https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/enlargement-p...): * stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities; * a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces in the EU; * the ability to take on and implement effectively the obligations of membership, including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.

rightbyte 4y ago

You don't have to join Schengen border cooperation.

closewith 4y ago
All EU accession states are legally bound to join Schengen, with the exception of Ireland, which during the negotiations for the Treaty of Amsterdam received (along with the UK) an opt-out. No other nations have this opt-out.
- iso1631 4y ago
  Yet not all nations are in Schengen. If Scotland were allowed to join the EU (despite Spain's veto) I have no doubt there would be an acceptance that it could remain in the CTA with Ireland and the rest of UK
  - closewith 4y ago
    I'd have the opposite view. It seems unlikely that the bloc will ever provide opt-outs going forward given the difficulties they've caused to date.
    - iso1631 4y ago
      Unlike Denmark, Sweden doesn't have an optout for the Euro, yet hasn't joined.
      - lbschenkel 4y ago
        They used a loophole: to adopt Euro you need to be in ERM-II for a while as a pre-requisite, and Sweden found out that there is no rule imposing a timeframe for it to join ERM-II so it is deliberately not joining. IMO this is complying with the letter of the agreement it has with the EU but not the spirit. As far as I understand, the EU closed this loophole for new members but it is turning a blind eye for Sweden. It is fascinating to me that in practice there is this reversal of roles: Sweden is supposed to adopt the Euro and yet has a free-floating currency, and Denmark that has an opt-out deliberately chose to be in ERM-II and has a currency that is pegged to the Euro.

dataengineer56 4y ago

Scotland wouldn't meet the criteria to join the EU - it's far too poor and small by itself. Exiting the UK would just isolate them more.

walkhour 4y ago
I expect some European countries like Spain to firmly oppose them joining the European Union, to send a message to inner regions that may also want independence. This idea that Scotland is going to vote for independence from the UK and straight into Europe is far fetched.
AnnikaL 4y ago
In 2021, Scotland's GDP per capita was estimated[0] to be about £30,000, or around €35,000 euros. This is hardly poor--even if economic output fell by half on independence, Scotland would still have a higher nominal GDP per capita than many EU members (such as Poland, Romania, and the Baltic States)[1]. I don't know how much independence would affect the economy, but a 50% decrease seems quite harsh. Its population of around 5 million is comparable to other small EU member states such as Ireland, Slovakia, Finland, and Croatia[2]. [0] - https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/statistics/2022/04/gdp-quarterly-national-accounts-2021-q4/documents/gdp-quarterly-national-accounts-publication/gdp-quarterly-national-accounts-publication/govscot%3Adocument/GDP%2BQNAS%2B-%2B2021%2BQ4%2B-%2BPublication.pdf?forceDownload=true https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publ... [1] - https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg_08_10/default/table?lang=en https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg_08_10/def... [2] - https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/tps00001/default/table?lang=en https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/tps00001/defa...
FinanceAnon 4y ago
Ireland has a population of 5 million, Scotland 5.5 million.
Erikun 4y ago
That isnt correct, perhaps "poor" might be a problem depending on what dept Scotland would have after independence, but definetly not small. Joining criteria are (https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/enlargement-policy/conditions-membership_en https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/enlargement-p...): * stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities; * a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces in the EU; * the ability to take on and implement effectively the obligations of membership, including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.