5 ms·

This just in: people buying more expensive product (on average) have more money (on average)

by jitl 4y ago

HWR_14 4y ago
iPhones aren't the most expensive flagship phones and they can be pretty expensive. Heck, carriers will give you a base model iPhone for switching.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  GP's point isn't about flagship phones, but about the average price over the general ecosystem. Of course, they may be wrong, since they didn't cite anything. But I would clearly be surprised to learn that the average Android phone sold isn't cheaper than the average iPhone sold.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    > I would clearly be surprised to learn that the average Android phone sold isn't cheaper than the average iPhone sold. I really would. In the US (where this survey is based) every two years you can get a free iPhone for switching carriers. Usually it's a year or so behind the curve. Carriers offer discounts on Android phones that lead to some being free as well, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if a huge percentage of iPhones were subsidized by carriers to get business and were free to end users.
    - vladvasiliu 4y ago
      In France, there are plans that give you discounted iPhones (never seen current or previous generations ones for free). Some cheaper Androids can be free. But these plans are much more expensive than equivalent plans with no phone. My aging iPhone is more or less due for a replacement, so I've been looking into those. Basically, you have to take on these plans for two years. And by the end of the two years, if you sum the difference between the plans, you usually end up paying more than if you bought the iPhone on your own.
  - BbzzbB 4y ago
    I agree that it seems quite self-evident. But for kicks, here are some proper numbers of average price by OS (couldn't find median). Statista (2012-2018): https://www.statista.com/statistics/309472/global-average-selling-price-smartphones/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/309472/global-average-se... Some peer-reviewed paper (2007-2016): https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-average-selling-price-of-smartphones-by-operating-system_tbl2_334434628 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-average-selling-pric... Shouldn't surprise anyone really, but iPhones are more expensive. Let's also consider the fact they have <14% [1] market share of smartphones yet are the most profitable and valuable company on Earth (excluding the one that's the extension of a monarchy/state) because of that product, which I think paints the picture. 1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/272307/market-share-forecast-for-smartphone-operating-systems/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/272307/market-share-fore...
    - MBCook 4y ago
      Remember though that iPhone market share is consistently 40-50% in the US, varying by year. I couldn’t tell from the article if the survey was US only or not but given they quote incomes in dollars I wouldn’t be surprised. So 14% may not be relevant here.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        The article wasn't clear, but the survey was done of 2,000 customers (1,000 each OS) done by a US company (I believe a startup) designed to connect it's customers with discounts at US stores. While it's possible (it's an app/website) that non-US users exist, it seems unlikely anyone would sign up if they were outside the US.
      - BbzzbB 4y ago
        Fair, Facebook's ARPU per region is a good illustration of how much more valuable that market is compared to everywhere else. FWIW I recall seeing an even higher figure for US teens.
- lucius_verus 4y ago
  No one is saying that iphones are the most expensive flagships. A difference in maximum isn't the same as a difference in average. Apple doesn't make a product that costs less than $430 (the SE). If you need a cheaper phone, you have to go Android. For lots of people, $400 is a lot of money (especially if you're also buying phones for your kids, who are likely to break whatever you buy them). In lots of families it's iphone for the grownups, android for the kids. And that's just within the US. On a global scale, if you're selling phones outside of the US and European markets, some part of your product lineup has to be in the sub $200 range (in addition to the flagships you sell everywhere). For example, in India, Xiaomi sells the Redmi 9A for Rs 8,000 (about $100). They're competing with Samsung phones we don't see in the US, like the Galaxy M series, which are in the same price category. Those phones exist because (a) people need cell phones (especially in places where a phone might be your primary access to the internet) and (b) Apple is choosing not to go after those customers. Even though Samsung makes a more expensive flagship, the average income of Android users will always be lower because (a) there are more poor people world-wide than rich people, and (b) Apple isn't making phones for poor people, while Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo, etc. are. Apple's strategy is totally working for them (selling a luxury product at luxury prices works well) but it also means that most poor people (which is most people) won't ever have one, so the average income of an iOS user will always be higher (along with the other things that go along with a higher income, like higher spending).
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    > On a global scale, if you're selling phones outside of the US and European markets, We're not talking about a global scale. We're talking about a US-based survey about US-based people. > Apple doesn't make a product that costs less than $430 (the SE). > $400 is a lot of money Except every two years you can switch carriers and pay $0 out of pocket. Heck, if switch today you get a base iPhone 12 or iPhone 13 they don't even raise your contract vs BYOD. And if you want to pay for a more advanced iPhone (say, upgrade to the Max Pro for an additional $400), they finance that over 2 years. > In lots of families it's iphone for the grownups, android for the kids. That argues against what you're saying. Unless you think that kids as independent economic actors need to be accounted for separately than their parents, in a lot of families the people using Androids are children of parents rich enough to afford iPhones.

This just in: people buying more expensive product (on average) have more money (on average)

by jitl 4y ago

This just in: people buying more expensive product (on average) have more money (on average)

iPhones aren't the most expensive flagship phones and they can be pretty expensive. Heck, carriers will give you a base model iPhone for switching.

vladvasiliu 4y ago
GP's point isn't about flagship phones, but about the average price over the general ecosystem. Of course, they may be wrong, since they didn't cite anything. But I would clearly be surprised to learn that the average Android phone sold isn't cheaper than the average iPhone sold.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > I would clearly be surprised to learn that the average Android phone sold isn't cheaper than the average iPhone sold. I really would. In the US (where this survey is based) every two years you can get a free iPhone for switching carriers. Usually it's a year or so behind the curve. Carriers offer discounts on Android phones that lead to some being free as well, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if a huge percentage of iPhones were subsidized by carriers to get business and were free to end users.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    In France, there are plans that give you discounted iPhones (never seen current or previous generations ones for free). Some cheaper Androids can be free. But these plans are much more expensive than equivalent plans with no phone. My aging iPhone is more or less due for a replacement, so I've been looking into those. Basically, you have to take on these plans for two years. And by the end of the two years, if you sum the difference between the plans, you usually end up paying more than if you bought the iPhone on your own.
- BbzzbB 4y ago
  I agree that it seems quite self-evident. But for kicks, here are some proper numbers of average price by OS (couldn't find median). Statista (2012-2018): https://www.statista.com/statistics/309472/global-average-selling-price-smartphones/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/309472/global-average-se... Some peer-reviewed paper (2007-2016): https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-average-selling-price-of-smartphones-by-operating-system_tbl2_334434628 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-average-selling-pric... Shouldn't surprise anyone really, but iPhones are more expensive. Let's also consider the fact they have <14% [1] market share of smartphones yet are the most profitable and valuable company on Earth (excluding the one that's the extension of a monarchy/state) because of that product, which I think paints the picture. 1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/272307/market-share-forecast-for-smartphone-operating-systems/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/272307/market-share-fore...
  - MBCook 4y ago
    Remember though that iPhone market share is consistently 40-50% in the US, varying by year. I couldn’t tell from the article if the survey was US only or not but given they quote incomes in dollars I wouldn’t be surprised. So 14% may not be relevant here.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      The article wasn't clear, but the survey was done of 2,000 customers (1,000 each OS) done by a US company (I believe a startup) designed to connect it's customers with discounts at US stores. While it's possible (it's an app/website) that non-US users exist, it seems unlikely anyone would sign up if they were outside the US.
    - BbzzbB 4y ago
      Fair, Facebook's ARPU per region is a good illustration of how much more valuable that market is compared to everywhere else. FWIW I recall seeing an even higher figure for US teens.
lucius_verus 4y ago
No one is saying that iphones are the most expensive flagships. A difference in maximum isn't the same as a difference in average. Apple doesn't make a product that costs less than $430 (the SE). If you need a cheaper phone, you have to go Android. For lots of people, $400 is a lot of money (especially if you're also buying phones for your kids, who are likely to break whatever you buy them). In lots of families it's iphone for the grownups, android for the kids. And that's just within the US. On a global scale, if you're selling phones outside of the US and European markets, some part of your product lineup has to be in the sub $200 range (in addition to the flagships you sell everywhere). For example, in India, Xiaomi sells the Redmi 9A for Rs 8,000 (about $100). They're competing with Samsung phones we don't see in the US, like the Galaxy M series, which are in the same price category. Those phones exist because (a) people need cell phones (especially in places where a phone might be your primary access to the internet) and (b) Apple is choosing not to go after those customers. Even though Samsung makes a more expensive flagship, the average income of Android users will always be lower because (a) there are more poor people world-wide than rich people, and (b) Apple isn't making phones for poor people, while Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo, etc. are. Apple's strategy is totally working for them (selling a luxury product at luxury prices works well) but it also means that most poor people (which is most people) won't ever have one, so the average income of an iOS user will always be higher (along with the other things that go along with a higher income, like higher spending).
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > On a global scale, if you're selling phones outside of the US and European markets, We're not talking about a global scale. We're talking about a US-based survey about US-based people. > Apple doesn't make a product that costs less than $430 (the SE). > $400 is a lot of money Except every two years you can switch carriers and pay $0 out of pocket. Heck, if switch today you get a base iPhone 12 or iPhone 13 they don't even raise your contract vs BYOD. And if you want to pay for a more advanced iPhone (say, upgrade to the Max Pro for an additional $400), they finance that over 2 years. > In lots of families it's iphone for the grownups, android for the kids. That argues against what you're saying. Unless you think that kids as independent economic actors need to be accounted for separately than their parents, in a lot of families the people using Androids are children of parents rich enough to afford iPhones.