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This is shortsighted and won’t age well. Consider the world in 2030. Another 8 years of advancements into bitcoin infrastructure, point of sale devices, mobile

This is shortsighted and won’t age well. Consider the world in 2030. Another 8 years of advancements into bitcoin infrastructure, point of sale devices, mobile wallet integrations, etc Plus failed central banks, failed paper currencies, etc

dghlsakjg 4y ago
Bitcoin's first block dates back to January 2009, or 13 years. POS devices have existed since, at least, 2017, or five years. Despite that people are using crypto less as a currency today than they ever have. What are the next 8 years going to bring us that the past 13 haven't? It seems like as time goes on crypto becomes less useful rather than more as a general utility for buying stuff. Most crypto "currencies" are also a not a great store of value currently. Just for context, the Ukrainian Hryvnia has lost less value since the Russian invasion than bitcoin has lost today. A financial system more volatile than the economy of a country outmatched in a war with a superpower, is perhaps, not a system you want doing things that require stability.
- eric_cc 4y ago
  > It seems like as time goes on crypto becomes less useful rather than more as a general utility for buying stuff. I said: Bitcoin. Not crypto. (The longer I’m in this space, the more I realize that scammy crypto is one of the biggest enemies of bitcoin adoption.) It may seem this way to you but you’re clearly not paying enough attention. Adoption curve is up. Many advancements have been and continue to be made on the front of consumer products. Let’s face it, companies like Square will drive mainstream usage. Consumer products will only get better and better and over time will be on par with products that use the dollar under the hood.
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    My arguments is even less generous and more applicable if you scope it only to BTC. Bitcoin as a common currency is basically a non existent use case for most people. So let me amend my argument: It seems like as time goes on, bitcoin specifically, has seen decreased general use as anything but a speculative greater-fool investment. As far as I can tell, the only people that use bitcoin as a currency are 1. trying to prove a point, or 2. doing illegal shit. That used to be less true 5 years ago. Why would square drive mainstream usage? Square needs people on both sides of the transaction to have already adopted in order to drive business.
rchaud 4y ago
Only another 8 years, eh? Does this assume a ceteris paribus scenario where Apple, Google, Visa, MC, PayPal stand still on infrastructure and mobile wallets?
- eric_cc 4y ago
  I didn’t mean to suggest 8 years was required and only arbitrarily picked 2030 as a round number. I suspect that Apple, Google, visa, MC, and PayPal will continue to build bitcoin into their product. Bitcoin does not compete at all with these companies. Just like the US dollar is not a competitor to Apple, visa, etc. these are products that incorporate currencies.
  - nr2x 4y ago
    ApplePay is literally a payment system.
    - eric_cc 4y ago
      Correct. What’s your point? ApplePay is not a currency.
adam_arthur 4y ago
As long as the primary reason for holding BTC is to make USD, it will never be a viable currency
- eric_cc 4y ago
  Now this I totally agree with. BTC only realizes its true potential when it replaces the dollar. It may have some more boom/bust cycles to go before it gets there but it’s the top contender to do so.
  - tekknik 4y ago
    BTC will never replace the dollar, the US gov will shut it down before it does so as it’s not considered legal tender here. Same with every other country that wishes to maintain some control over their economy (all of the smart ones)
whiplash451 4y ago
Failed central banks? Can you elaborate?
- eric_cc 4y ago
  Yes here is an example happening in real-time: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/06/13/business/yen-135-dollar/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/06/13/business/yen-13... I suspect it’s going to be a domino effect that gets much much worse..

dghlsakjg 4y ago

Bitcoin's first block dates back to January 2009, or 13 years. POS devices have existed since, at least, 2017, or five years. Despite that people are using crypto less as a currency today than they ever have. What are the next 8 years going to bring us that the past 13 haven't? It seems like as time goes on crypto becomes less useful rather than more as a general utility for buying stuff. Most crypto "currencies" are also a not a great store of value currently. Just for context, the Ukrainian Hryvnia has lost less value since the Russian invasion than bitcoin has lost today. A financial system more volatile than the economy of a country outmatched in a war with a superpower, is perhaps, not a system you want doing things that require stability.

eric_cc 4y ago
> It seems like as time goes on crypto becomes less useful rather than more as a general utility for buying stuff. I said: Bitcoin. Not crypto. (The longer I’m in this space, the more I realize that scammy crypto is one of the biggest enemies of bitcoin adoption.) It may seem this way to you but you’re clearly not paying enough attention. Adoption curve is up. Many advancements have been and continue to be made on the front of consumer products. Let’s face it, companies like Square will drive mainstream usage. Consumer products will only get better and better and over time will be on par with products that use the dollar under the hood.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  My arguments is even less generous and more applicable if you scope it only to BTC. Bitcoin as a common currency is basically a non existent use case for most people. So let me amend my argument: It seems like as time goes on, bitcoin specifically, has seen decreased general use as anything but a speculative greater-fool investment. As far as I can tell, the only people that use bitcoin as a currency are 1. trying to prove a point, or 2. doing illegal shit. That used to be less true 5 years ago. Why would square drive mainstream usage? Square needs people on both sides of the transaction to have already adopted in order to drive business.

rchaud 4y ago

Only another 8 years, eh? Does this assume a ceteris paribus scenario where Apple, Google, Visa, MC, PayPal stand still on infrastructure and mobile wallets?

eric_cc 4y ago
I didn’t mean to suggest 8 years was required and only arbitrarily picked 2030 as a round number. I suspect that Apple, Google, visa, MC, and PayPal will continue to build bitcoin into their product. Bitcoin does not compete at all with these companies. Just like the US dollar is not a competitor to Apple, visa, etc. these are products that incorporate currencies.
- nr2x 4y ago
  ApplePay is literally a payment system.
  - eric_cc 4y ago
    Correct. What’s your point? ApplePay is not a currency.

adam_arthur 4y ago

As long as the primary reason for holding BTC is to make USD, it will never be a viable currency

eric_cc 4y ago
Now this I totally agree with. BTC only realizes its true potential when it replaces the dollar. It may have some more boom/bust cycles to go before it gets there but it’s the top contender to do so.
- tekknik 4y ago
  BTC will never replace the dollar, the US gov will shut it down before it does so as it’s not considered legal tender here. Same with every other country that wishes to maintain some control over their economy (all of the smart ones)

whiplash451 4y ago

Failed central banks? Can you elaborate?

eric_cc 4y ago
Yes here is an example happening in real-time: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/06/13/business/yen-135-dollar/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/06/13/business/yen-13... I suspect it’s going to be a domino effect that gets much much worse..