12 ms·

Binance ‘pauses’ Bitcoin withdrawals amid market collapse

44 points by myrloc 4y ago

cs702 4y ago
Anecdotally, a lot of people have been using a lot of leverage to do a lot of insanely speculative things with cryptocurrency over the past few years. And it's worked out great for them... until now. I imagine many leveraged speculators are facing the prospects of financial ruin.
- pedalpete 4y ago
  I believe you are right, and it is quite awful. Though from what I can tell, stock trading accounts offer similar leverage tools. I sincerely feel for the people who got in over their heads.
  - blitzar 4y ago
    > I sincerely feel for the people who got in over their heads. They were insufferable pricks when they were making loads and laughing at everyone else staying poor. Why would I give them a second thought on the other side? btw: same goes for some tech entrepreneurs too. Remember: Be Nice to People on Your Way Up. You’ll Meet Them On Your Way Down
    - cj 4y ago
      The vocal people you read about online are a minority. The vast majority (99%+) of investors losing money are doing so silently.
    - TuringNYC 4y ago
      >> Why would I give them a second thought on the other side? Because if enough of them hurt, soon the government wants to bail them out, and you and I pay for that bailout with taxes. Or perhaps the government forces the platform to absorb the losses, and you and I pay for that with higher fees in the future.
      - jonny_eh 4y ago
        > soon the government wants to bail them out I would be genuinely shocked, and outraged, if the government bails out crypto investors. It has been common knowledge how risky that sector is.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - martin8412 4y ago
        Government might go after those selling unregulated securities, but I doubt tax money will be used to bail anyone out.
      - babypuncher 4y ago
        I think there is a far more likely third option; the government hands down crypto regulations similar to the financial regulations put in place during the first half of the 20th century.
      - blitzar 4y ago
        Heads they win, tails I lose.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Retail stock trading accounts generally don't allow more than 2× leverage (although options trades and certain ETFs can sort of simulate higher leverage). Why should I feel for cryptocurrency "investors" who got in over their heads? If they all end up bankrupt that would be a perfectly acceptable outcome, and a valuable object lesson in the importance of making smart decisions.
    - pedalpete 4y ago
      You are correct to use the term "investors" with quotes, but if I understand your intention, you are suggesting they are gamblers, and therefore deserve to lose. You're talking about the general public who for the most part don't own stocks, or when they do, that is treated like gambling (RobinHood). Then you get big name stars, people they trust, to tell them they should be buying crypto. They see it go up, and then see they don't have to spend more, they can just get more, like BNPL, or payday loan for investments that go up. They say "yes please, how much can I get". Sure, some people were just a*holes over leveraging themselves and taking a risk. But I suspect many people didn't know how deep they could go, or what they could get themselves into. Even if you disagree with how somebody got into a situation, doesn't mean you can't have empathy for their position.
      - nradov 4y ago
        I have no empathy for their position.
        pedalpete 4y ago
        You might want to get that looked at :)
- chemmail 4y ago
  This is basically all markets when the government prints 80% of all US dollars in existence. Everyone gambles with money they got from thin air. The air wants it back now.
trollied 4y ago
Misleading - a transaction was stuck due to the fee being too low. See https://twitter.com/binance/status/1536337215877283840 https://twitter.com/binance/status/1536337215877283840
- Animats 4y ago
  Fees were higher than that for a few days a month ago.
anon291 4y ago
I have sat out the crypto craze. I was actually one of the first to introduce the idea to my friends after having stumbled upon Satoshi's paper. I even joined a mining pool early on, but never did I put my own money into it. I'm not an expert economist by any means, and am often intimidated when I go on crypto boards and the average user seems to be able to throw around advanced macroeconomics terms no problem. Nevertheless, my basic economic background in crypto told me that, since the currency is neither tied to ownership in something with value or some entity that actually produces something valuable or some token which governments will arrest you if you fail to pay, that it has no useful value. For years, I pointed this out to those around me, who thought I was some kind of Luddite. But, I think this is going to vindicate my basic argument. There is nothing valuable in crypto. It failed as a means of payment. It's failed to decentralize finance. And now, it's failed to be a store of value as well.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  > For years, I pointed this out to those around me, who thought I was some kind of Luddite. Fun fact, the Luddites weren't actually anti-technology - many of them were skilled machine operators. They were protesting for better working conditions, higher pay and apprenticeship programs. [1] [edit] Of note: the machines they were attacking were not new, and smashing industrial machines in protest was not a concept that began or ended with them. They were some of the more prolific victims of anti-organized-labor smear campaigns. [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-really-fought-against-264412/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-rea...
- pigtailgirl 4y ago
  -- not really disagreeing with you - only nitpick would be it remains to be seen what happens when BTC is effectively pointless to mine (or is fully mined, but the first will come considerably sooner) - a store of value should obviously hold that value relatively stable - maybe it's being treated as three things simultaneously by three contingents so the use-case hasn't shook out properly? - not sure - just thinking out loud :=) --
- blahblarblar 4y ago
  My crypto is still worth more than I paid for it.
blueyes 4y ago
Binance has been making it hard and expensive to make withdrawals for years, well before the crash.
X6S1x6Okd1st 4y ago
Their official explanation, that bitcoin txns are getting stuck due to low fees, is plausible. See: https://mempool.space/graphs/mempool#24h https://mempool.space/graphs/mempool#24h & zoom out farther to see how the current fee regime is higher than usual. This does show a nasty form of contagion within crypto. One player pauses withdrawals which causes a run for the doors elsewhere, any given L1 can only process so many txns per second, so fees spike, their code doesn't handle it gracefully so more players pause withdrawals to fix it.
Animats 4y ago
CNET says Binance withdrawals are back up.[1] [1] https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/crypto/binance-resumes-bitcoin-withdraws-after-hours-long-freeze/ https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/crypto/binance-resumes...
- Semaphor 4y ago
  As does Binance: https://nitter.net/binance/status/1536370988924882945 https://nitter.net/binance/status/1536370988924882945

44 points by myrloc 4y ago

Anecdotally, a lot of people have been using a lot of leverage to do a lot of insanely speculative things with cryptocurrency over the past few years. And it's worked out great for them... until now. I imagine many leveraged speculators are facing the prospects of financial ruin.

pedalpete 4y ago
I believe you are right, and it is quite awful. Though from what I can tell, stock trading accounts offer similar leverage tools. I sincerely feel for the people who got in over their heads.
- blitzar 4y ago
  > I sincerely feel for the people who got in over their heads. They were insufferable pricks when they were making loads and laughing at everyone else staying poor. Why would I give them a second thought on the other side? btw: same goes for some tech entrepreneurs too. Remember: Be Nice to People on Your Way Up. You’ll Meet Them On Your Way Down
  - cj 4y ago
    The vocal people you read about online are a minority. The vast majority (99%+) of investors losing money are doing so silently.
  - TuringNYC 4y ago
    >> Why would I give them a second thought on the other side? Because if enough of them hurt, soon the government wants to bail them out, and you and I pay for that bailout with taxes. Or perhaps the government forces the platform to absorb the losses, and you and I pay for that with higher fees in the future.
    - jonny_eh 4y ago
      > soon the government wants to bail them out I would be genuinely shocked, and outraged, if the government bails out crypto investors. It has been common knowledge how risky that sector is.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - martin8412 4y ago
      Government might go after those selling unregulated securities, but I doubt tax money will be used to bail anyone out.
    - babypuncher 4y ago
      I think there is a far more likely third option; the government hands down crypto regulations similar to the financial regulations put in place during the first half of the 20th century.
    - blitzar 4y ago
      Heads they win, tails I lose.
- nradov 4y ago
  Retail stock trading accounts generally don't allow more than 2× leverage (although options trades and certain ETFs can sort of simulate higher leverage). Why should I feel for cryptocurrency "investors" who got in over their heads? If they all end up bankrupt that would be a perfectly acceptable outcome, and a valuable object lesson in the importance of making smart decisions.
  - pedalpete 4y ago
    You are correct to use the term "investors" with quotes, but if I understand your intention, you are suggesting they are gamblers, and therefore deserve to lose. You're talking about the general public who for the most part don't own stocks, or when they do, that is treated like gambling (RobinHood). Then you get big name stars, people they trust, to tell them they should be buying crypto. They see it go up, and then see they don't have to spend more, they can just get more, like BNPL, or payday loan for investments that go up. They say "yes please, how much can I get". Sure, some people were just a*holes over leveraging themselves and taking a risk. But I suspect many people didn't know how deep they could go, or what they could get themselves into. Even if you disagree with how somebody got into a situation, doesn't mean you can't have empathy for their position.
    - nradov 4y ago
      I have no empathy for their position.
      - pedalpete 4y ago
        You might want to get that looked at :)
chemmail 4y ago
This is basically all markets when the government prints 80% of all US dollars in existence. Everyone gambles with money they got from thin air. The air wants it back now.

trollied 4y ago

Misleading - a transaction was stuck due to the fee being too low. See https://twitter.com/binance/status/1536337215877283840 https://twitter.com/binance/status/1536337215877283840

Animats 4y ago
Fees were higher than that for a few days a month ago.

anon291 4y ago

I have sat out the crypto craze. I was actually one of the first to introduce the idea to my friends after having stumbled upon Satoshi's paper. I even joined a mining pool early on, but never did I put my own money into it. I'm not an expert economist by any means, and am often intimidated when I go on crypto boards and the average user seems to be able to throw around advanced macroeconomics terms no problem. Nevertheless, my basic economic background in crypto told me that, since the currency is neither tied to ownership in something with value or some entity that actually produces something valuable or some token which governments will arrest you if you fail to pay, that it has no useful value. For years, I pointed this out to those around me, who thought I was some kind of Luddite. But, I think this is going to vindicate my basic argument. There is nothing valuable in crypto. It failed as a means of payment. It's failed to decentralize finance. And now, it's failed to be a store of value as well.

arcticbull 4y ago
> For years, I pointed this out to those around me, who thought I was some kind of Luddite. Fun fact, the Luddites weren't actually anti-technology - many of them were skilled machine operators. They were protesting for better working conditions, higher pay and apprenticeship programs. [1] [edit] Of note: the machines they were attacking were not new, and smashing industrial machines in protest was not a concept that began or ended with them. They were some of the more prolific victims of anti-organized-labor smear campaigns. [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-really-fought-against-264412/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-rea...
pigtailgirl 4y ago
-- not really disagreeing with you - only nitpick would be it remains to be seen what happens when BTC is effectively pointless to mine (or is fully mined, but the first will come considerably sooner) - a store of value should obviously hold that value relatively stable - maybe it's being treated as three things simultaneously by three contingents so the use-case hasn't shook out properly? - not sure - just thinking out loud :=) --
blahblarblar 4y ago
My crypto is still worth more than I paid for it.

blueyes 4y ago

Binance has been making it hard and expensive to make withdrawals for years, well before the crash.

X6S1x6Okd1st 4y ago

Their official explanation, that bitcoin txns are getting stuck due to low fees, is plausible. See: https://mempool.space/graphs/mempool#24h https://mempool.space/graphs/mempool#24h & zoom out farther to see how the current fee regime is higher than usual. This does show a nasty form of contagion within crypto. One player pauses withdrawals which causes a run for the doors elsewhere, any given L1 can only process so many txns per second, so fees spike, their code doesn't handle it gracefully so more players pause withdrawals to fix it.

Animats 4y ago

CNET says Binance withdrawals are back up.[1] [1] https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/crypto/binance-resumes-bitcoin-withdraws-after-hours-long-freeze/ https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/crypto/binance-resumes...

Semaphor 4y ago
As does Binance: https://nitter.net/binance/status/1536370988924882945 https://nitter.net/binance/status/1536370988924882945