6 ms·

Good point! I think the EU is gonna force Apple to open up Messages, in which case Apple Messages will become the _de facto_ standard.

ghaff 4y ago
I don't want iMessage to be a _de facto_ standard. I want my work stuff to be mostly on my work channels. Very little work stuff gets onto my cell phone number which includes iMessage.
- petre 4y ago
  In France they have a law that the employer is not allowed to call you off work hours. I think it should also apply to instant messaging. They also have another good law which prohibits eating in the office, so they all have to take the lunch break off and eat at a restaurant or bistro or canteen. Which is great because food delivery also generates single use food container waste and also food waste. https://www.npr.org/2022/06/10/1103463809/why-eating-at-your-desk-is-banned-in-france-lunch-law https://www.npr.org/2022/06/10/1103463809/why-eating-at-your...
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I mostly don't even want IMs on my personal phone though--and I don't want to carry two phones. I personally have no issue with doing some quick work off and on after hours--so long as you have no trouble with me taking care of some errands during the day. Seems a pretty good tradeoff. When I went into an office, I would sometimes grab lunch at my desk if I just wanted some calories and wrap up my day as quickly as possible. Otherwise I'd eat with people in the cafeteria or go out (options for both of which varied a lot by job).
  - majewsky 4y ago
    Agreed on the food container waste, but why would eating at the desk vs. in a restaurant cause more food waste? I'm just eating the same portion in a different place. Also, when no one else is in the office, I sometimes like eating at my desk because I can eat by myself instead of having to deal with noisy people at the other tables.
    - petre 4y ago
      Because something always comes up and the food goes cold and stale? Plus the office reeks of food, ketchup on your keyboard, unhygenic. You can eat wherewer you want, just not in the office. You can eat in the park. The thing is, one also gets to disconnect from work, walk away from the desk and maintain a proper work life balance. Some French individuals also use the lunch break to exercise. I don't live in France but we use the meeting room to eat, instead of eating at our desks. We properly vent it afterwards, of course.
  - tomjen3 4y ago
    Thats terrible, because it you can't bring your own food? What the hell do with people limit/weird diets do?
    - petre 4y ago
      Yes you can, just not eat it in the office. They also bring their own food. I guess there are places where you can eat you own food confortably.
      - SoftTalker 4y ago
        Is someone actually going to call the police if I'm eating a sandwich at my desk? And are they going to respond?
        MomoXenosaga 4y ago
        No you will just be ostracized. There is this line in Europe, the North-South divide. And they dont do "sandwich" for lunch it is full on dining with wine. Degenerates!
    - benhurmarcel 4y ago
      I work in France and nobody will complain if you eat at your desk, but it's not something people do usually. If you do it often people will comment that you should take your break. French people like to take the time to eat in some other place, even if done quickly. Most employers have at least a dedicated room for eat your own food, with some basic equipment. In practice the law is more about what employers must provide in terms of amenities and time off to eat.
      - tomjen3 4y ago
        Okay, that is a lot different than not being allowed to eat in the office. All the two places I have worked had a separate eating area as well, though I often snack at my desk.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    So you think that it’s good that the government tells you where you can eat?
usrn 4y ago
Hopefully they'll just force everyone to federate with XMPP again. That was pretty great and now we have OMEMO so it's even E2EE.
WheatM 4y ago
You're overstating the importance of Apple outside of the USA. No one I know uses Apple Messages.
Dma54rhs 4y ago
But not many people use iMessages in EU to begin with. Its more of an American thing because of history of texting and the iMessage color phenomenon.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Some of it is probably history in US. Texting used to be very expensive. Admittedly, I couldn't even tell you what I pay--if anything--in non-iMessage texts these days on a bog-standard AT&T plan but it's not something enough to take note of and I don't take the color into any account when texting.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I feel like texting was unlimited by the time iMessage became prominent. At least I do not recall text costs being a concern for domestic texts anytime in the 2010s. I do remember international texting costs driving adoption of WhatsApp though. It was a killer app that everyone knew how to instantly use, not have spam, and the contacts/pics/video/group sharing just worked across all phone OSs. Edit: In fact, the exact opposite is what I think happened. Texting was unlimited in the US, or effectively unlimited because it was so cheap, that people in the US did not bother to look into a non default SMS/MMS apps to message others, since Americans are mostly contacting other Americans. All the people I knew who had international contacts jumped on WhatsApp, but a huge portion of Americans never contact anyone outside America, so they never cared about international messaging costs, and never bothered with WhatsApp/Viber/Tango/Skype/whatever other chat app was out there to bypass text costs. This gave Apple an advantage because they can implement their own iMessage in the default SMS/MMS app, and ramp people up onto iMessage without people even choosing it.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Yeah, I'll use WhatsApp or something like Facebook Messenger for the maybe handful of international folks I sometimes text with. But I don't care if Americans are texting green or blue--and that's 99% of the people I text with. I communicate with Europeans in particular all the time. But those are via Gmail/Gchat or Twitter mostly.
scarface74 4y ago
Right, they may make Apple Messages interoperable with SMS… Oh wait.

ghaff 4y ago

I don't want iMessage to be a _de facto_ standard. I want my work stuff to be mostly on my work channels. Very little work stuff gets onto my cell phone number which includes iMessage.

petre 4y ago
In France they have a law that the employer is not allowed to call you off work hours. I think it should also apply to instant messaging. They also have another good law which prohibits eating in the office, so they all have to take the lunch break off and eat at a restaurant or bistro or canteen. Which is great because food delivery also generates single use food container waste and also food waste. https://www.npr.org/2022/06/10/1103463809/why-eating-at-your-desk-is-banned-in-france-lunch-law https://www.npr.org/2022/06/10/1103463809/why-eating-at-your...
- ghaff 4y ago
  I mostly don't even want IMs on my personal phone though--and I don't want to carry two phones. I personally have no issue with doing some quick work off and on after hours--so long as you have no trouble with me taking care of some errands during the day. Seems a pretty good tradeoff. When I went into an office, I would sometimes grab lunch at my desk if I just wanted some calories and wrap up my day as quickly as possible. Otherwise I'd eat with people in the cafeteria or go out (options for both of which varied a lot by job).
- majewsky 4y ago
  Agreed on the food container waste, but why would eating at the desk vs. in a restaurant cause more food waste? I'm just eating the same portion in a different place. Also, when no one else is in the office, I sometimes like eating at my desk because I can eat by myself instead of having to deal with noisy people at the other tables.
  - petre 4y ago
    Because something always comes up and the food goes cold and stale? Plus the office reeks of food, ketchup on your keyboard, unhygenic. You can eat wherewer you want, just not in the office. You can eat in the park. The thing is, one also gets to disconnect from work, walk away from the desk and maintain a proper work life balance. Some French individuals also use the lunch break to exercise. I don't live in France but we use the meeting room to eat, instead of eating at our desks. We properly vent it afterwards, of course.
- tomjen3 4y ago
  Thats terrible, because it you can't bring your own food? What the hell do with people limit/weird diets do?
  - petre 4y ago
    Yes you can, just not eat it in the office. They also bring their own food. I guess there are places where you can eat you own food confortably.
    - SoftTalker 4y ago
      Is someone actually going to call the police if I'm eating a sandwich at my desk? And are they going to respond?
      - MomoXenosaga 4y ago
        No you will just be ostracized. There is this line in Europe, the North-South divide. And they dont do "sandwich" for lunch it is full on dining with wine. Degenerates!
  - benhurmarcel 4y ago
    I work in France and nobody will complain if you eat at your desk, but it's not something people do usually. If you do it often people will comment that you should take your break. French people like to take the time to eat in some other place, even if done quickly. Most employers have at least a dedicated room for eat your own food, with some basic equipment. In practice the law is more about what employers must provide in terms of amenities and time off to eat.
    - tomjen3 4y ago
      Okay, that is a lot different than not being allowed to eat in the office. All the two places I have worked had a separate eating area as well, though I often snack at my desk.
- scarface74 4y ago
  So you think that it’s good that the government tells you where you can eat?

usrn 4y ago

Hopefully they'll just force everyone to federate with XMPP again. That was pretty great and now we have OMEMO so it's even E2EE.

WheatM 4y ago

You're overstating the importance of Apple outside of the USA. No one I know uses Apple Messages.

Dma54rhs 4y ago

But not many people use iMessages in EU to begin with. Its more of an American thing because of history of texting and the iMessage color phenomenon.

ghaff 4y ago
Some of it is probably history in US. Texting used to be very expensive. Admittedly, I couldn't even tell you what I pay--if anything--in non-iMessage texts these days on a bog-standard AT&T plan but it's not something enough to take note of and I don't take the color into any account when texting.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I feel like texting was unlimited by the time iMessage became prominent. At least I do not recall text costs being a concern for domestic texts anytime in the 2010s. I do remember international texting costs driving adoption of WhatsApp though. It was a killer app that everyone knew how to instantly use, not have spam, and the contacts/pics/video/group sharing just worked across all phone OSs. Edit: In fact, the exact opposite is what I think happened. Texting was unlimited in the US, or effectively unlimited because it was so cheap, that people in the US did not bother to look into a non default SMS/MMS apps to message others, since Americans are mostly contacting other Americans. All the people I knew who had international contacts jumped on WhatsApp, but a huge portion of Americans never contact anyone outside America, so they never cared about international messaging costs, and never bothered with WhatsApp/Viber/Tango/Skype/whatever other chat app was out there to bypass text costs. This gave Apple an advantage because they can implement their own iMessage in the default SMS/MMS app, and ramp people up onto iMessage without people even choosing it.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Yeah, I'll use WhatsApp or something like Facebook Messenger for the maybe handful of international folks I sometimes text with. But I don't care if Americans are texting green or blue--and that's 99% of the people I text with. I communicate with Europeans in particular all the time. But those are via Gmail/Gchat or Twitter mostly.

scarface74 4y ago

Right, they may make Apple Messages interoperable with SMS… Oh wait.