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"On waiting for services: I was actually (and still technically am) on an NHS waitlist which I've been on for the last 5 years, my new employer is just paying a

"On waiting for services: I was actually (and still technically am) on an NHS waitlist which I've been on for the last 5 years, my new employer is just paying a private doctor to handle everything which begins next week" Presumably you've connected the two. If there is a supply side shortage of doctors - and there is - yet if you have the money you can jump the queue, then all that does is increase the delay to those without money. It's like the priority queue at Alton Towers, which in itself is an affront to one of the core British values - that we are all the same really and we all stand in line awaiting our turn. The solution is to abolish the fast track option and reorder the priority queue based upon need, not ability to pay. That is, and remains, the founding value of the NHS. It's how we get the rich to pay more. They wait the same time as the poor person with the same issue, but their time is more valuable. Private medicine doesn't increase the capacity of the system. It tilts the system towards those who can afford a FastTrack Pass at the expense of those that can't.

imtringued 4y ago
A lot of doctors leave Germany because of bad pay. If private doctors have higher salaries that is an incentive for people to become doctors for other reasons than just passion which is a fickle thing.
benj111 4y ago
I suppose to my mind it depends on who benefits. I'm not averse to people getting private treatment if there are reasonable wait times within the NHS and the NHS gains from that. Where it gets to the point of NHS dentists where it's a struggle to get one, because they're all private. That is an issue.
AdrianB1 4y ago
Private medicine increases the capacity of the system in other countries (including mine). Making a doctor career not attractive is decreasing the capacity of the system and UK is doing that; there used to be a large number of doctors emigrating my country for UK, that flux is almost zero now. I cannot even mention why this is happening without being downvoted to hell, it is an unpopular fact.
- neilwilson 4y ago
  There is a supply side shortage of doctors everywhere. If doctors migrate to the U.K. that just means the country where they trained has poorer healthcare. And that country has trained somebody for no benefit to itself. We call that colonial appropriation of other nations natural resources. The U.K. has to cut its coat to its cloth.
Engineering-MD 4y ago
Not really. In the UK nearly all private work by doctors is an extra session on top of full time NHS job. It increases the hours worked, and it increases capacity through a investigations/non health services also requires. Personally, I don’t do any private work but don’t think it’s a bad thing to do so.
- neilwilson 4y ago
  If there is capacity it can be transferred to the NHS can’t it. Then the queues would be shorter. What you’re suggesting there is that the full time NHS job isn’t full time enough.
  - Engineering-MD 4y ago
    Sure, but time is a limited resource. The less free time you get, the more you want to charge for loss of that free time as it has become more valuable. At one point that extra session is too expensive for the NHS but not for private companies. Then there is extra capacity in the system. That’s just economics. You could get rid of private care by funding the NHS more than any private company, then doctors wouldn’t want to work for them (excluding all the other reasons people don’t want to work for the NHS). On other reasons to not work for the NHS: culture plays a big part. The NHS is very bureaucratic and slow to change. Private companies have the potential to offer a more positive work culture, flexible hours, etc etc all the normal things that ‘good’ companies to work at do to help offset lower wages that the NHS often doesn’t. Similarly, due to different funding models, private healthcare can give drugs/perform procedures which don’t have a good cost/benefit analysis but the customer doesn’t mind paying for. That’s just more money into the system and one fewer person in the queue waiting for treatment for everyone else. An analogy is helicopter vs train. The free train run by the government is full. Rich guy buys a helicopter ticket. Queue for the train is one person shorter. The government would never fund a helicopter journey as too expensive. So its not even a consideration for the government. You can try push the everything must be NHS or nothing, but we start moving away from a free market economy, and that that’s a whole different argument, and has much bigger impacts than just the NHS.

imtringued 4y ago

A lot of doctors leave Germany because of bad pay. If private doctors have higher salaries that is an incentive for people to become doctors for other reasons than just passion which is a fickle thing.

benj111 4y ago

I suppose to my mind it depends on who benefits. I'm not averse to people getting private treatment if there are reasonable wait times within the NHS and the NHS gains from that. Where it gets to the point of NHS dentists where it's a struggle to get one, because they're all private. That is an issue.

AdrianB1 4y ago

Private medicine increases the capacity of the system in other countries (including mine). Making a doctor career not attractive is decreasing the capacity of the system and UK is doing that; there used to be a large number of doctors emigrating my country for UK, that flux is almost zero now. I cannot even mention why this is happening without being downvoted to hell, it is an unpopular fact.

neilwilson 4y ago
There is a supply side shortage of doctors everywhere. If doctors migrate to the U.K. that just means the country where they trained has poorer healthcare. And that country has trained somebody for no benefit to itself. We call that colonial appropriation of other nations natural resources. The U.K. has to cut its coat to its cloth.

Engineering-MD 4y ago

Not really. In the UK nearly all private work by doctors is an extra session on top of full time NHS job. It increases the hours worked, and it increases capacity through a investigations/non health services also requires. Personally, I don’t do any private work but don’t think it’s a bad thing to do so.

neilwilson 4y ago
If there is capacity it can be transferred to the NHS can’t it. Then the queues would be shorter. What you’re suggesting there is that the full time NHS job isn’t full time enough.
- Engineering-MD 4y ago
  Sure, but time is a limited resource. The less free time you get, the more you want to charge for loss of that free time as it has become more valuable. At one point that extra session is too expensive for the NHS but not for private companies. Then there is extra capacity in the system. That’s just economics. You could get rid of private care by funding the NHS more than any private company, then doctors wouldn’t want to work for them (excluding all the other reasons people don’t want to work for the NHS). On other reasons to not work for the NHS: culture plays a big part. The NHS is very bureaucratic and slow to change. Private companies have the potential to offer a more positive work culture, flexible hours, etc etc all the normal things that ‘good’ companies to work at do to help offset lower wages that the NHS often doesn’t. Similarly, due to different funding models, private healthcare can give drugs/perform procedures which don’t have a good cost/benefit analysis but the customer doesn’t mind paying for. That’s just more money into the system and one fewer person in the queue waiting for treatment for everyone else. An analogy is helicopter vs train. The free train run by the government is full. Rich guy buys a helicopter ticket. Queue for the train is one person shorter. The government would never fund a helicopter journey as too expensive. So its not even a consideration for the government. You can try push the everything must be NHS or nothing, but we start moving away from a free market economy, and that that’s a whole different argument, and has much bigger impacts than just the NHS.