13 ms·
Quoting the most concrete example he gives: > If you start talking about your religious beliefs at a social event people treat you like you just farted in thei
by krisoft 4y ago
Quoting the most concrete example he gives:
> If you start talking about your religious beliefs at a social event people treat you like you just farted in their face. They frequently will scrunch up their faces and might ask a question like “Do you REALLY believe all that stuff?” When you tell them that you do they might even go so far as to say “Sorry that’s just not the kind of thing I associate with someone as smart as yourself.”
That does not sound like discrimination to me. It sounds like people have an opinion and they express that opinion. It also sounds like they express their opinion very politely and in a restrained manner.
Having opinions and saying them is a free speech, a cherrised cornerstone of the American culture.
- taylodl 4y agoI grew up in the Southern Baptist church. These people have a serious persecution complex - in fact, they want to be persecuted because that makes them most like Jesus! The guy feels "persecuted" because Google hasn't opened an office in Louisiana? Google hasn't opened offices in most states! Why haven't they opened offices in Louisiana? Who knows? Does that mean Google hates the South? Well, if so then why do they have offices in Atlanta? Last I checked, Atlanta is still in the US South! Like I said, this guy is fulfilling his religious need to feel persecuted and grasping at nonsense to justify their persecution complex.
- matthewmacleod 4y agoFascinating - to me, a thoroughly irreligious person, I can’t possibly imagine being that fucking rude to someone. The idea that you think it’s “very polite and restrained” is amazing.
- lultimouomo 4y agoIt surely is quite aggressive. But the author qualifies it with "might even go so far as to say", so it seems like it's the absolute worst thing it was said to him. I've heard worse?
- iLoveOncall 4y agoYou missed the part where the OP is going around Google talking about how religious he is when nobody asked. If you believe in something nonsensical, people will let it slide. If you believe in something nonsensical and are being obnoxious about it, you will be insulted and you will deserve it.
- teekert 4y agoYou are at a meeting with colleagues, one colleague suddenly starts to insist that Santa Claus is real. Do you take them seriously? Sure it’s freedom of speech but there will be some kind of drop in respect. I mean I get that you believe that one book trumps all of human science because you were raised that way but when you grow up your critical thinking skills should kick in. If they don’t, it’s very difficult to keep taking an adult that believes in all kinds of unprovable stuff serious, because where does that end? When is weird weird enough to be allowed to be publicly rejected every time it’s brought up, according to you?
- jjeaff 4y agoIt's likely that a minority of Christians take everything in the Bible literally and believe that it trumps science. I think you are being a bit disengenuous.
- klodolph 4y agoI don’t think you have justification for calling the argument “disingenuous”. Seems like accusations of people being disingenuous is the go-to accusation on HN and I’m tired of it.
- jjeaff 4y agoWell, if it's not disingenuous, then the commenter is very much out of touch with reality. Pick your poison.
- klodolph 4y agoI can’t follow your line of reasoning here. Seems like you’re saying that the comment is so absurd and fantastical that the author is either “out of touch with reality” or the author doesn’t believe it themselves… but I don’t know what line of reasoning you used to come to that conclusion. The conclusion is definitely not obvious to me.
- kaba0 4y ago
- truthwhisperer 4y ago
- stefankorun 4y agoOkay, so how would you consider the alternative when someone is expressing their opinion on other topics like: “Do you really like dating people of the same sex? Sorry that’s the kind of thing I associate with someone who does not have any mental issues as yourself”. I am not advocating if any of them are good or bad (personally I avoid both), but we should really have the same standards when it comes to the famed “free speech”.
- hackyhacky 4y agoAll of these hypothetical conversations are great reasons why sex, politics, and religion should never be discussed in the workplace. Somebody's feelings are going to get hurt.
- CodeMage 4y agoFalse equivalence. Religion is a personal choice. Sexual orientation isn't.
- Renaud 4y agoIt’s quite baffling to me that people would start talking about religion at social events that are not related to religion in the first place. To me, one of the basic rules of social etiquette is never talk about religion or politics unless you’re amongst people who share your views or it’s a specific religious or political gathering. If I’m attending a social function, I certainly don’t want to hear about your religious views or political bent. Chances are slim that I would espouse compatible views and that would just make things very uncomfortable for either or both of us. There are so many other interesting and less polarising topics of discussion with strangers.
- throwoutway 4y agoI disagree. People have mocked others that hold my beliefs (negative) and I respond with a positive view. Why is it somehow deemed acceptable to denigrate religions at social events, but if you say you believe X then it’s “baffling”?
- londons_explore 4y agoThe way religions spread is to violate this social etiquette. Many religions explicitly require followers to try to 'spread the word' for exactly this reason.
- l33t2328 4y agoAll the religions that don’t encourage that quickly die out from lack of new members.
- drc500free 4y agoJudaism is still around.
- igetspam 4y agoIt teaches self sustaining levels long ago. New religions probably require much more viral spread to survive.
- magic_hamster 4y agoThe author is trying their best to be the odd one out. A few coversation topics will always be controversial when hanging out with your coworkers, religion being one of the leading examples. The question is why would you even want to bring it up unless you're looking for someone to argue with.
- t0suj4 4y agoDissociating yourself from people based on their beliefs is new thing and it's wreaking havoc. The colleague in question did not even ask any details about author's faith and what was told was enough for him to disassociate. In this case the author was treated like lower caste Indian. The proper negative response would be in my opinion "I don't like discussing religion, can we keep it outside of the conversation?"
- synu 4y agoIt is weirdly common for people to conflate running into others who disagree with or aren’t interested in them with authoritarian suppression. You even see people going on television to talk about how they have been silenced.
- tialaramex 4y agoBecause it's largely impossible to find out whether people believe nonsense or just pretend to, one should where possible avoid needing to know. If you can set things up so that the consequences for Jim killed the puppy plus either "Jim believes God told him to kill the puppy" or "Jim pretended God told him to kill the puppy" are roughly identical you needn't waste your time trying to see inside Jim's mind. This is trickier with retributional justice. If you think your justice system's goal is to punish wrong doing it's difficult to argue that it doesn't matter what Jim really believed, as if he really believed God was telling him to kill the puppy how can that be wrong?
- synu 4y agoIm sorry what are we taking about? I think I’ve gotten lost, or maybe your reply was meant for another thread?
- tialaramex 4y agoSorry, to me it's pretty obvious that most of these people don't really believe they were silenced when they're on TV shouting about it. But I can't prove that, so, fine, maybe they believe this, we should treat both the false belief and the lying about it the same way.
- synu 4y agoGot it, thanks!
- unsignedint 4y agoI would see a big red flag on the person if they would start discussing religion even at non-work settings, unless I know that person really well. (And if the person knows me very well, I don't think they will bother...) Someone having religious beliefs does not give them right to rude with their colleagues, while his desire to hold certain religious beliefs respected and accommodated where appropriate (which would be discrimination if not) that does not mean people around him need to respect what he believe. From my past encounters with religious people, I can't help notice there's mix up on this.
- slightwinder 4y ago> It also sounds like they express their opinion very politely and in a restrained How is an insult restrained? The reactions are just disrespectful, and I can understand why someone could feel it as some kind of discrimination. Just switch Religion with your preferred technology, hobby or even some political topic, and think about how you would take such reactions, if they come up too often. > Having opinions and saying them is a free speech, a cherrised cornerstone of the American culture. Free Speech should also come with respect and manners.
- paganel 4y agoIt is discrimination, and I say that as an atheist. Imagine asking a devout Hindu: “you really don’t eat beef? How crazy is that? Do you know how good it tastes?” or questioning a devout Hebrew about he not doing any work on Shabbat.
- _8j50 4y agoYou are right, he did not state actions taken against him based on his beliefs so it isn't employer discrimination. However, the fact that this thread is flagged speaks volumes. In the global west in general there is an unhealthy extremisim between being anti-religious or a force-it-down-your-throat extrimist. An argument could be made that lack of education about religious tolerance has resulted in a hostile workspace against religious people in companies with very secular workers and against people who don't have a religion at very religious workspaces. The sword cuts both ways and it is a shame even mention of a discussion about tolerance is met with such hostility. You don't have to take a person's belief seriously in order to be respectful or tolerant of them, especially in the work place. That said, I have no reason to believe OPs claims are correct.