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I really think that CVs (i.e. chronological listings of your career steps) should not be required for hiring. It is undignifying that we have to lay bare where

I really think that CVs (i.e. chronological listings of your career steps) should not be required for hiring. It is undignifying that we have to lay bare where life has taken us, just so that we can get a job. Instead, people should be allowed to list experiences that are relevant to the position. And then it is also fine to say, that one has worked for X years on something. But anything that is not related to the job should not be necessary to share.

CuriousSkeptic 4y ago
But you are allowed to do that! Having been on the receiving end of a lot of CVs I can’t say that I expect any particular structure. A CV is just like “technical specifications”. As long as it honesty tries to convey wether you are worth my time to evaluate for a particular role you can structure it anyway you like.
- vaylian 4y ago
  > But you are allowed to do that! Things you are allowed to do +1 Thanks. Even though you are the first person who tells me this. Plenty of career workshops say the opposite.
  - cecilpl2 4y ago
    Whenever you think to yourself that you have to do things a certain way, it's good to remember that it's really all just a bunch of people on the other side. Hiring managers and recruiters are just people, looking for other people to give jobs to. However you convince them to do it is what works.
- ajb 4y ago
  Yes, you are allowed to do that. You do occasionally run into someone who checks for gaps - someone asked me about a gap 20 years ago recently. Although I don't know if they actually cared or just had engineer's checking brain engaged. If they expect you to be that vanilla you may not want to work with them - remember the point of a CV, just like the rest of the process, is to maximise the chance of getting a placement you match, not just maximise the chance of getting to the next step. Causing people you wouldn't want to work with to filter you out is a plus.
  - osolo 4y ago
    I wouldn’t do that. Let me explain this from the perspective of a hiring manager. For a compelling position, it’s not unheard of to get 100 resumes per one spot (the ratio for my positions about 1:85). That’s a lot of resumes to go through. Often you’re hiring multiple people, so there are literally hundreds of resumes! You can’t possibly interview everyone who applied, so you have to filter. Sometimes it’s easy (eg you’re hiring a senior but the candidate has only 2 yrs experience) but that’s rare. You have to develop more filters, or you’ll drown. If I see a resume with a recent gap, it presents a question: What’s up? Why was this person not employed? There are many reasons, many not good. So I’ll pass, there are many other resumes without this problem. Doing your own thing doesn’t mean there needs to be a gap. Write what you did! Call it a Startup or Startup Explorations. Talk about the idea, the tech, the UX, the marketing, all of it. This will show that you’re a self starter, a problem solver. Leaving the years empty doesn’t show any of that. Let me leave you with this pragmatic thought: We can argue here if chronological resumes are good or bad, and what we should have instead. In the real world, that doesn’t matter because everybody else is submitting a resume, and you want yours to stand out for the better, not for worse.
    - joeman1000 4y ago
      What’s up? Maybe they just needed a break and/or they’ve been ill or burnt out. This doesn’t mean they’re useless.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        I agree with you, but it’s quite easy to see how any of those could be seen as a negative by a prospective employer.
    - gabereiser 4y ago
      If a gap causes you to pass, I’ll pass too… thanks. I work to live, not live to work.
    - gxnxcxcx 4y ago
      A recent gap might be the firewall that prevents burnout. You're self-selecting into a higher chance of imminent burnout.
reactordev 4y ago
Anytime someone asks me why I’ve “jumped around so many places” or held so many jobs I simply reply back that “Life for me is very different from you. I have no house to pay for, I have no family to care for, I have no ties to where I am. I follow my passions but never leave a project unfinished and undocumented.” I’m honest about what I did during any lengthy leave of work. I’ve experienced no company loyalty so I give none. It’s a contract, an agreement, nothing more. I always will emphasize my talents and skills and explain how that fits into the role I’m seeking. 90% of the time this works but occasionally there’s someone who thinks it’s career suicide to leave a job before 10 years. They are mostly boomers.

CuriousSkeptic 4y ago

But you are allowed to do that! Having been on the receiving end of a lot of CVs I can’t say that I expect any particular structure. A CV is just like “technical specifications”. As long as it honesty tries to convey wether you are worth my time to evaluate for a particular role you can structure it anyway you like.

vaylian 4y ago
> But you are allowed to do that! Things you are allowed to do +1 Thanks. Even though you are the first person who tells me this. Plenty of career workshops say the opposite.
- cecilpl2 4y ago
  Whenever you think to yourself that you have to do things a certain way, it's good to remember that it's really all just a bunch of people on the other side. Hiring managers and recruiters are just people, looking for other people to give jobs to. However you convince them to do it is what works.
ajb 4y ago
Yes, you are allowed to do that. You do occasionally run into someone who checks for gaps - someone asked me about a gap 20 years ago recently. Although I don't know if they actually cared or just had engineer's checking brain engaged. If they expect you to be that vanilla you may not want to work with them - remember the point of a CV, just like the rest of the process, is to maximise the chance of getting a placement you match, not just maximise the chance of getting to the next step. Causing people you wouldn't want to work with to filter you out is a plus.
- osolo 4y ago
  I wouldn’t do that. Let me explain this from the perspective of a hiring manager. For a compelling position, it’s not unheard of to get 100 resumes per one spot (the ratio for my positions about 1:85). That’s a lot of resumes to go through. Often you’re hiring multiple people, so there are literally hundreds of resumes! You can’t possibly interview everyone who applied, so you have to filter. Sometimes it’s easy (eg you’re hiring a senior but the candidate has only 2 yrs experience) but that’s rare. You have to develop more filters, or you’ll drown. If I see a resume with a recent gap, it presents a question: What’s up? Why was this person not employed? There are many reasons, many not good. So I’ll pass, there are many other resumes without this problem. Doing your own thing doesn’t mean there needs to be a gap. Write what you did! Call it a Startup or Startup Explorations. Talk about the idea, the tech, the UX, the marketing, all of it. This will show that you’re a self starter, a problem solver. Leaving the years empty doesn’t show any of that. Let me leave you with this pragmatic thought: We can argue here if chronological resumes are good or bad, and what we should have instead. In the real world, that doesn’t matter because everybody else is submitting a resume, and you want yours to stand out for the better, not for worse.
  - joeman1000 4y ago
    What’s up? Maybe they just needed a break and/or they’ve been ill or burnt out. This doesn’t mean they’re useless.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      I agree with you, but it’s quite easy to see how any of those could be seen as a negative by a prospective employer.
  - gabereiser 4y ago
    If a gap causes you to pass, I’ll pass too… thanks. I work to live, not live to work.
  - gxnxcxcx 4y ago
    A recent gap might be the firewall that prevents burnout. You're self-selecting into a higher chance of imminent burnout.

reactordev 4y ago

Anytime someone asks me why I’ve “jumped around so many places” or held so many jobs I simply reply back that “Life for me is very different from you. I have no house to pay for, I have no family to care for, I have no ties to where I am. I follow my passions but never leave a project unfinished and undocumented.” I’m honest about what I did during any lengthy leave of work. I’ve experienced no company loyalty so I give none. It’s a contract, an agreement, nothing more. I always will emphasize my talents and skills and explain how that fits into the role I’m seeking. 90% of the time this works but occasionally there’s someone who thinks it’s career suicide to leave a job before 10 years. They are mostly boomers.