4 ms·

The next 5 years could be very interesting and sad if it turns out that COVID has lasting, long term damaging effects on your organs and vascular system, we are

The next 5 years could be very interesting and sad if it turns out that COVID has lasting, long term damaging effects on your organs and vascular system, we are just beginning to see the tip of the iceberg. For example, there is an extremely serious post covid multi-system organ inflammation that occurs in children : https://www.cdc.gov/mis/mis-c.html https://www.cdc.gov/mis/mis-c.html Watch, I bet we will even see a huge jump in rare cancers. Edit: And in adults, it does weird things to your alcohol tolerance: https://www.kevinmd.com/2021/03/could-a-glass-of-wine-diagnose-long-covid.html https://www.kevinmd.com/2021/03/could-a-glass-of-wine-diagno... I can not drink wine really anymore.

WoodenChair 4y ago
Some of what you wrote is true and some of it is pure speculation. I downvoted you for the unsubstantiated fear mongering in this sentence: > Watch, I bet we will even see a huge jump in rare cancers. People are afraid enough we don’t need that.
- buildbot 4y ago
  Fair enough
- ethanwillis 4y ago
  Put the fear aside, speculation is important as a tool for looking ahead at what possibilities there could be. It's not like the OP was trying to pass the speculation as fact. Personally, I would rather think about the "ifs" and plan ahead than to find myself in the "now" with consequences I could've possibly avoided.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    Dartboard guesses are not useful for anything, and when those guesses all veer toward a certain emotion (fear, etc.), then it's not an attempt at useful predictions.
- somewhereoutth 4y ago
  The problem is that they aren't afraid enough - otherwise they'd be pushing to bring this pandemic under control.
  - xyzzyz 4y ago
    I’d rather bring under control people who are trying to prevent my children from having normal life. We all had Covid already (likely even twice). We are done with the theater. We don’t want to listen to scaremongering. We want to smile in public. We want to breathe freely. We don’t want or need any more boosters. If you like the restrictions, wear a mask, or just stay home permanently, I don’t care. Just don’t force me and my children into literally faceless, anti-social dystopia.
    - somewhereoutth 4y ago
      There is a big policy space between "We are done with the theatre" and "literally faceless, anti-social dystopia". Unfortunately many of the policies in that space will negatively effect powerful vested interests (see climate change, see health reform, see food standards, see police training, see banking, see...). Such vested interests have expended vast amounts of effort to convince the 'ordinary person' that nothing can be done - or equivalently, that the only things that would work would end our way of life as we know it. I'm sorry you seem to have been caught up in that.
      - IdEntities 4y ago
        What do you think would work, exactly? From where I'm sitting, the large vested interests you're pointing to benefitted enormously from the COVID response, especially the lockdowns which destroyed around a third of small businesses and concentrated that market share upward.
  - nradov 4y ago
    What does "under control" even mean? The virus is here to stay no matter what we do. Everyone will be exposed. Fortunately the vaccines and other treatments are fairly effective at preventing deaths. I'm not even slightly afraid. https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646 https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646
- AnthonBerg 4y ago
  We do not need to concern ourselves with how people’s access to information should be restricted. In fact, there have been published several robust scientific arguments for the possibility that COVID-19 infection can increase the risk of cancer. Here’s one paper, Cancer as a prospective sequela of long COVID‐19, Geetanjali Saini and Ritu Aneja, both of the Department of Biology, Georgia State University, Atlanta, Georgia. Published April 29, 2021 in the journal Bioessays of the Wiley Online Library. – https://doi.org/10.1002%2Fbies.202000331 https://doi.org/10.1002%2Fbies.202000331 “Herein, we propose that long COVID‐19 may predispose recovered patients to cancer development and accelerate cancer progression. This hypothesis is based on growing evidence of the ability of SARS‐CoV‐2 to modulate oncogenic pathways, promote chronic low‐grade inflammation, and cause tissue damage.” And: ”COVID-19 has been associated with T-cell depletion and activation of oncogenic pathways, including JAK-STAT, MAPK, and NF-κB, potentially increasing the risk of cancer development.[20] Hypoxia due to inflammation or virus-induced angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 depletion can induce oxidative stress and malignant transformation.[21-26] Over time, both chronic inflammation and oxidative stress can lead to DNA damage and subsequent carcinogenesis.[27-31] Moreover, COVID-19 is known to cause multiorgan damage,[32] and extensive tissue damage is an oncogenic driver.” Etc. etc.; I suggest reading the paper, and others like it.
tsol 4y ago
I don't think this is deserving of being grayed out. There certainly do seem to be some lingering systemic effects for some people that have recovered from covid, and for some people those effects are very serious. Cancers, though, seem like a stretch. I don't see any reason to think covid would cause that. It's lingering tiredness that really seems to be common among those who have been infected
- ramblenode 4y ago
  Why is cancer a stretch? Other viral infections are well known to increase cancer risk. It seems like basically anything that causes tissue damage increases the risk of cancer, which is basically a result of the breakdown of information.
  - highwaylights 4y ago
    This. The biggest risk factor for cancer (to my knowledge) is accumulated cellular damage.
  - darkerside 4y ago
    The real question is, does it increase cancer risk more than a typical cold or flu.
- raducu 4y ago
  Wasn't it at some point that the greatest risk factor for a heart attack was if you got the flu in the past? Why wouldn't a virus that's 10-100 times more deadly not have serious long term effects?
sorethescore 4y ago
It seems pretty likely that a vasculatory inflammatory virus that also infects the immune system will have lasting, long-term damaging effects on your organs and cardiovascular system.
StanislavPetrov 4y ago
> The next 5 years could be very interesting and sad if it turns out that COVID has lasting, long term damaging effects on your organs and vascular system, we are just beginning to see the tip of the iceberg. The same can be said about the potentially damaging long term effects of the experimental immuntherapies being touted as vaccines. Unfortunately it is taboo in polite society to raise this obvious concern about these risks but, until the passage of time, the long-term effects are just as unknown and just as unknowable as those resulting from COVID. As someone who has received this experimental immunotherapy (as well as having Covid), I am equally concerned with both.
FunnyBadger 4y ago
[flagged]
uejfiweun 4y ago
As a counterpoint I got omicron in Jan and it was extremely mild. One day of fever and fatigue and I was back to normal. No lingering effects at all. I honestly think the hysteria over long covid is rather harmful in of itself, because now you have a lot of people with a sort of placebo effect. For instance, feeling tired and ascribing that to a permanent affliction of long covid rather than the 3 hours of sleep you got last night.
- jhardy54 4y ago
  “I flipped a coin and got heads, so the people who say they got tails must be confused”
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  Long Covid has a proven association with microclotting and other vascular issues. Covid is essentially a vascular illness and there's some evidence it attacks the entire immune system. So this is anything but "hysteria." I know a shocking number of previously healthy people who have suddenly had strokes, heart arrhythmias, and - in a few cases - are now dead. Less dramatic symptoms include extreme incapacitating fatigue, persistent brain fog, joint pain, breathlessness, and measurably low blood oxygen. Your personal experience is exactly that - personal - and not in any way relevant to people who are now living with real, observable clinical abnormalities.
  - darkerside 4y ago
    Ditto. Heart disease has been a leading killer since long before COVID.
- darkerside 4y ago
  Yes, this is real, and it's called the nocebo effect.
- 4y ago
b3nji 4y ago
And for all these people saying that the mRNA vaccines could be anything to do with it is absolute nonsense. Yes, Pfizer had some questionable data released during their trial, but show me a vaccine that hasn't had side effects?
bsder 4y ago
> Watch, I bet we will even see a huge jump in rare cancers. Only if those cancers are triggered specifically by Covid. For most other cancers, we are likely going to see a time-shifted decrease in them. The Covid lockdowns absolutely wiped out a flu season. Other viruses probably had similar profiles. We know that asthma went down more than expected from environmental triggers during Covid lockdowns. Continuing hygiene is likely to push down some viral transmission--for example, sick service employees who can't take a day off have their transmission significantly curtailed by corporate policies still mandating a mask. Medicine is about to have a whole lot of information about things that are triggered by pathogens. The end conclusion is likely to be that we are FAR to cavalier about viral diseases.

WoodenChair 4y ago

Some of what you wrote is true and some of it is pure speculation. I downvoted you for the unsubstantiated fear mongering in this sentence: > Watch, I bet we will even see a huge jump in rare cancers. People are afraid enough we don’t need that.

buildbot 4y ago
Fair enough
ethanwillis 4y ago
Put the fear aside, speculation is important as a tool for looking ahead at what possibilities there could be. It's not like the OP was trying to pass the speculation as fact. Personally, I would rather think about the "ifs" and plan ahead than to find myself in the "now" with consequences I could've possibly avoided.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  Dartboard guesses are not useful for anything, and when those guesses all veer toward a certain emotion (fear, etc.), then it's not an attempt at useful predictions.
somewhereoutth 4y ago
The problem is that they aren't afraid enough - otherwise they'd be pushing to bring this pandemic under control.
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  I’d rather bring under control people who are trying to prevent my children from having normal life. We all had Covid already (likely even twice). We are done with the theater. We don’t want to listen to scaremongering. We want to smile in public. We want to breathe freely. We don’t want or need any more boosters. If you like the restrictions, wear a mask, or just stay home permanently, I don’t care. Just don’t force me and my children into literally faceless, anti-social dystopia.
  - somewhereoutth 4y ago
    There is a big policy space between "We are done with the theatre" and "literally faceless, anti-social dystopia". Unfortunately many of the policies in that space will negatively effect powerful vested interests (see climate change, see health reform, see food standards, see police training, see banking, see...). Such vested interests have expended vast amounts of effort to convince the 'ordinary person' that nothing can be done - or equivalently, that the only things that would work would end our way of life as we know it. I'm sorry you seem to have been caught up in that.
    - IdEntities 4y ago
      What do you think would work, exactly? From where I'm sitting, the large vested interests you're pointing to benefitted enormously from the COVID response, especially the lockdowns which destroyed around a third of small businesses and concentrated that market share upward.
- nradov 4y ago
  What does "under control" even mean? The virus is here to stay no matter what we do. Everyone will be exposed. Fortunately the vaccines and other treatments are fairly effective at preventing deaths. I'm not even slightly afraid. https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646 https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646
AnthonBerg 4y ago
We do not need to concern ourselves with how people’s access to information should be restricted. In fact, there have been published several robust scientific arguments for the possibility that COVID-19 infection can increase the risk of cancer. Here’s one paper, Cancer as a prospective sequela of long COVID‐19, Geetanjali Saini and Ritu Aneja, both of the Department of Biology, Georgia State University, Atlanta, Georgia. Published April 29, 2021 in the journal Bioessays of the Wiley Online Library. – https://doi.org/10.1002%2Fbies.202000331 https://doi.org/10.1002%2Fbies.202000331 “Herein, we propose that long COVID‐19 may predispose recovered patients to cancer development and accelerate cancer progression. This hypothesis is based on growing evidence of the ability of SARS‐CoV‐2 to modulate oncogenic pathways, promote chronic low‐grade inflammation, and cause tissue damage.” And: ”COVID-19 has been associated with T-cell depletion and activation of oncogenic pathways, including JAK-STAT, MAPK, and NF-κB, potentially increasing the risk of cancer development.[20] Hypoxia due to inflammation or virus-induced angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 depletion can induce oxidative stress and malignant transformation.[21-26] Over time, both chronic inflammation and oxidative stress can lead to DNA damage and subsequent carcinogenesis.[27-31] Moreover, COVID-19 is known to cause multiorgan damage,[32] and extensive tissue damage is an oncogenic driver.” Etc. etc.; I suggest reading the paper, and others like it.

tsol 4y ago

I don't think this is deserving of being grayed out. There certainly do seem to be some lingering systemic effects for some people that have recovered from covid, and for some people those effects are very serious. Cancers, though, seem like a stretch. I don't see any reason to think covid would cause that. It's lingering tiredness that really seems to be common among those who have been infected

ramblenode 4y ago
Why is cancer a stretch? Other viral infections are well known to increase cancer risk. It seems like basically anything that causes tissue damage increases the risk of cancer, which is basically a result of the breakdown of information.
- highwaylights 4y ago
  This. The biggest risk factor for cancer (to my knowledge) is accumulated cellular damage.
- darkerside 4y ago
  The real question is, does it increase cancer risk more than a typical cold or flu.
raducu 4y ago
Wasn't it at some point that the greatest risk factor for a heart attack was if you got the flu in the past? Why wouldn't a virus that's 10-100 times more deadly not have serious long term effects?

sorethescore 4y ago

It seems pretty likely that a vasculatory inflammatory virus that also infects the immune system will have lasting, long-term damaging effects on your organs and cardiovascular system.

StanislavPetrov 4y ago

> The next 5 years could be very interesting and sad if it turns out that COVID has lasting, long term damaging effects on your organs and vascular system, we are just beginning to see the tip of the iceberg. The same can be said about the potentially damaging long term effects of the experimental immuntherapies being touted as vaccines. Unfortunately it is taboo in polite society to raise this obvious concern about these risks but, until the passage of time, the long-term effects are just as unknown and just as unknowable as those resulting from COVID. As someone who has received this experimental immunotherapy (as well as having Covid), I am equally concerned with both.

FunnyBadger 4y ago

[flagged]

uejfiweun 4y ago

As a counterpoint I got omicron in Jan and it was extremely mild. One day of fever and fatigue and I was back to normal. No lingering effects at all. I honestly think the hysteria over long covid is rather harmful in of itself, because now you have a lot of people with a sort of placebo effect. For instance, feeling tired and ascribing that to a permanent affliction of long covid rather than the 3 hours of sleep you got last night.

jhardy54 4y ago
“I flipped a coin and got heads, so the people who say they got tails must be confused”
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
Long Covid has a proven association with microclotting and other vascular issues. Covid is essentially a vascular illness and there's some evidence it attacks the entire immune system. So this is anything but "hysteria." I know a shocking number of previously healthy people who have suddenly had strokes, heart arrhythmias, and - in a few cases - are now dead. Less dramatic symptoms include extreme incapacitating fatigue, persistent brain fog, joint pain, breathlessness, and measurably low blood oxygen. Your personal experience is exactly that - personal - and not in any way relevant to people who are now living with real, observable clinical abnormalities.
- darkerside 4y ago
  Ditto. Heart disease has been a leading killer since long before COVID.
darkerside 4y ago
Yes, this is real, and it's called the nocebo effect.
4y ago

b3nji 4y ago

And for all these people saying that the mRNA vaccines could be anything to do with it is absolute nonsense. Yes, Pfizer had some questionable data released during their trial, but show me a vaccine that hasn't had side effects?

bsder 4y ago

> Watch, I bet we will even see a huge jump in rare cancers. Only if those cancers are triggered specifically by Covid. For most other cancers, we are likely going to see a time-shifted decrease in them. The Covid lockdowns absolutely wiped out a flu season. Other viruses probably had similar profiles. We know that asthma went down more than expected from environmental triggers during Covid lockdowns. Continuing hygiene is likely to push down some viral transmission--for example, sick service employees who can't take a day off have their transmission significantly curtailed by corporate policies still mandating a mask. Medicine is about to have a whole lot of information about things that are triggered by pathogens. The end conclusion is likely to be that we are FAR to cavalier about viral diseases.